how come no one else gets heat for ducking Paul Williams?

To clear all this up... in 2007 floyd was #1 p4p, #1 Money draw, #1 ppv king, #1 Welter and Jr mid Williams was a top welter, so was margs, shane, cotto, clottey, zab, cintron.... Manny was nowhere near the scene at that time, he was still fighting the MAB rematch, JMM 2, Diaz, Everyone wants to see a fighter fight the champ,, that was floyd,, the demand is always for Contender to fight the champ, not conteneder vs contender,,, That is why there was not alot of demand for say williams vs clottey, or cotto vs williams... People wanna see their favorite contender fight floyd...... I dont see the big deal in floyd not fighting williams,, right as williams become a titlist at welter he lost to quitana and yes brutally won the rematch, but floyd was already in retirement by then.... Now if williams had gotten bigger wins sooner, say in 04, 05 instead of 07,08 then i would make a bigger deal of them not fighting, but williams arrived on the scene to late,,, It wasnt a floyd dodge,,, Floyd gets so much heat because compared to other guys at the time he seemed to have an easier schedule cotto: zab, shane, margs, clottey margs: cintron twice, cotto, williams, clottey williams: margs, quintana twice,, shambra, floyd as the #1 guy: shambra, zab, baldomir, hatton....... No big time welter showdowns like margs in 06-07, shane in 07, cotto in 08,, Thats why people get so upset and give floyd heat,,, I just dont think you gave make too much of a big deal about him not fighting williams, williams was never much of a name/draw, and arrived on the scene with the margs win, but ruined momentum losing to quitana,, had he blazed quitana in the 1st, in the first fight, then i could see williams getting a huge push from HBO and him being in the running for a floyd fight,, but that didnt happen so you cant make that big of a deal and give floyd too much heat about the williams fight

Manny never called out FMW jr.. it was always its up to my promoter or freddie /bob arum running their mouth and when pressed by max kellerman he still wouldnt say it When Manny was asked, Manny said I'm ready to fight him but not so sure Floyd (is ready). The point is that Floyd carefully selects his opponents and money is important only when the risk is relatively lower.

Probably cuz fans say Floyd's the greatest but ducked ww Cotto, Margarito, Pacquiao and Williams. Nobody tries to claim Cotto is the greatest and he atleast fought Pacquiao, Margarito and even Quintana before he beat Williams. That's why Floyd gets more heat for it.

I think the OP is exaggerating the amount of criticism that Floyd so-called received for not fight P.W. Instead what Floyd was criticized for more so was avoiding the entire WW division when it was on fire by going into a fake retirement. This is when Floyd had the nerve to say something along the lines of "all these WW's are beating beating eachother but nobody is beating Floyd Mayweather". Well no kidding Floyd. How can either of the WW's beat you if you're not fighting them at that time?

he was so big. he also had the loss to quintana at WW. unique fighter was williams. terrific dimensions, great chin, and aggressive. oh, and a true southpaw. long night.

" All the fights he took were wrong, yet all the fights he didn't were tough fights? You don't realize how biased that sounds?" I never said "ALL". Really? If I would poll with the 3 names that I stated (Martinez, Manny and P.Williams who all called out Floyd) against Baldomir, Sharmba, Marquez, Guerrero, Khan(next?) and so on, "on which fights would be tougher" ..... there would be a land slide in my favor!!!! You are trying to make the excuses as to why Floyd didn't fight Williams and said "but he lost". Sorry but if you compare P.Williams at 147/154 to anyone that Floyd faced, you would be thinking twice about what you were saying because everyone back then was saying that P.Williams had a very good chance of beating Floyd. If you made a poll on Williams chances of beating Floyd, they would be much higher than most if not all of Floyd's actual opponents. Over here, Canelo had just a 25% of winning. Guerrero had a 20%. That version of Cotto was low as well. I'm sure that most of those who picked against Floyd is because it's their fans that are polling against Floyd so that would be expected. So this is to mean that most other objective person had Floyd winning. Funny that Floyd fans say Floyd will whoop his opponent in threads where that mattered but then say in other threads that that same opponent was the best opponent Floyd could have selected and make excuses at how they were ranked. You did it with Baldomir (present this) and Judah (former that). So I knew what you were trying to do or say but you were not getting that they were all excuses that some of you Floyd fans do. Floyd and his team does it as well. Example is "but Marquez is P4P #2" ... then Floyd's fans repeat that like a parrot. Naturally some of what I say are opinions but then I would think that you can also realize that I'm using facts to base my opinions. Did Floyd pick on opponents that were less risky than fighting P. Williams? Did I name you some of those opponents where I thought that if those type of fighters are OK for Floyd to fight then P. Williams was above most if not all those that I mentioned. Facts: - Ortiz quit against Maidana (2 years before) and drawed against Peterson (a year before) and even though he won, was knocked down twice (fight before Floyd) against Berto in his only fight at 147. Yet you made up excuses about not fighting a riskier Williams? Now keep in mind that P.Williams called Floyd out even after your example of the "loss" by Williams (even more than 2 years later) and was ready to come down in weight ... but you ignore that FACT. So again, the quitting Ortiz, yes but not Williams who quickly revenged his loss (Ortiz didn't) and only loss until Martinez fight. - Marquez had just move up from 130 to 135 yet he was a prime time opponent for Floyd but not P. Williams because of what again? - Hatton fought ONCE at 147 and looked very average yet Williams who beat Margarito and revenged Quintana was not OK? - Sharmba at 147? Sharmba was OK for Floyd then why not fight the guy who beat Sharmba? - Guerrero - knocked down by Katsidis and very hittable. All he had to do was beat Berto (like evryone else has done lately). - Canelo - Canelo's team stated that Floyd wanted even a greener version of Canelo. Who did Canelo beat before Trout that made Floyd's team say that? Even Trout had many questions about him and even then, Canelo was not impressive (low work-rate, stamina issues ....) - Khan - Why is Floyd's team and GB always bringing up this guy that gets wobbled in every fight and has done nothing of late but Williams had to do more? Even when Williams beat guys like Martinez, he called out Floyd at a CW. Williams called out Floyd but found Williams to be a risky fighter. That is the bottom line that you can't admit to. Williams was avoided by many but you defend your hero Floyd on this front when everyone knows that Floyd never wanted to fight Williams. Like I said before, Floyd avoided the riskier fights for a reason. THEY WERE TOO RISKY!!! I named Martinez, Manny and Williams as examples of that. They all called out Floyd. The bigger guys even said they were willing to CW but Floyd said no .... but that same Floyd was OK to go up to fight Canelo and a version of Cotto that had lost or been in many wars. Floyd was OK in fighting those who I mentioned above even though they hardly got their feet wet in the WW division or were kinda green. I'm not stuck. This is the opinion of many. Floyd had the opportunity to fight risky fights where the odds would not be slanted by as drastic as those that Floyd cherry picked (see list above). Would only 20% of BS fans pick Williams over Floyd like Guerrero? Williams or that version of Marquez? Baldomir the champ (lol)? So why are you sticking to that excuse of yours? Floyd had several years where he could have faced Williams. Again, go back 1, 2 or 3 years and ask yourself where was Marquez, Guerrero, Ortiz, .... and so on? "I'm sure Manny would be OK to face me but not Floyd. He doesn't like the risks" - Paul Williams Manny never called out FMW jr.. it was always its up to my promoter or freddie /bob arum running their mouth and when pressed by max kellerman he still wouldnt say it

regardless of what fans say facts are facts

My logic is not Floyd's and I insult those that deserve insulting and I can't be asked to be sorry about that. IF you were worthy of respect I would give it but you aren't. Point blank I told you not to talk to me and that I had no desire to listen to your garbage but you carried on. Floyd always says whatever benefits his stance he is not a guy I ever listen really to, he contradicts himself constantly and has proven himself to be a hypocrite on multiple occasions. Luckily for him that has nothing to really do with boxing, however you seem real interested in what he has to say I never said Floyd shouldn't have fought Williams, or anybody. There was just little point of it. There was more of a point to Floyd fighting Judah when he did than fighting Williams after he got beat by Quintana. A fight not happening is just that, a fight that didn't happen, you trying to place greater meaning on fights that didn't occur than those that did occur is why you are hard to take serious. All the fights he took were wrong, yet all the fights he didn't were tough fights? You don't realize how biased that sounds? All I see is a diatribe where you pick and choose which guys were good and which guys weren't, the guys Floyd beat were all pretty good fighters it is not like William or Margarito are much better if at all. The only guy who was better that he didn't fight was Manny (and his dossier looks a lot like Floyd's so if you respect Manny you should respect Floyd)and there are two sides to that tale while you only ever tell one, believing the whole Arum tale. You are a straight up joke, you write all this but it really says nothing and you have no idea what I am all about. You say facts all I see is a lot of opinion and hear-say. Floyd's career is worthy of respect and what he has done is not outweighed buy what he hasn't done Williams and Margarito are nothing different than what Floyd has beat good fighters which Floyd has beat a lot of. You seem stuck on so much stuff about a guy you don't like, let it go it is healthier " All the fights he took were wrong, yet all the fights he didn't were tough fights? You don't realize how biased that sounds?" I never said "ALL". Really? If I would poll with the 3 names that I stated (Martinez, Manny and P.Williams who all called out Floyd) against Baldomir, Sharmba, Marquez, Guerrero, Khan(next?) and so on, "on which fights would be tougher" ..... there would be a land slide in my favor!!!! You are trying to make the excuses as to why Floyd didn't fight Williams and said "but he lost". Sorry but if you compare P.Williams at 147/154 to anyone that Floyd faced, you would be thinking twice about what you were saying because everyone back then was saying that P.Williams had a very good chance of beating Floyd. If you made a poll on Williams chances of beating Floyd, they would be much higher than most if not all of Floyd's actual opponents. Over here, Canelo had just a 25% of winning. Guerrero had a 20%. That version of Cotto was low as well. I'm sure that most of those who picked against Floyd is because it's their fans that are polling against Floyd so that would be expected. So this is to mean that most other objective person had Floyd winning. Funny that Floyd fans say Floyd will whoop his opponent in threads where that mattered but then say in other threads that that same opponent was the best opponent Floyd could have selected and make excuses at how they were ranked. You did it with Baldomir (present this) and Judah (former that). So I knew what you were trying to do or say but you were not getting that they were all excuses that some of you Floyd fans do. Floyd and his team does it as well. Example is "but Marquez is P4P #2" ... then Floyd's fans repeat that like a parrot. Naturally some of what I say are opinions but then I would think that you can also realize that I'm using facts to base my opinions. Did Floyd pick on opponents that were less risky than fighting P. Williams? Did I name you some of those opponents where I thought that if those type of fighters are OK for Floyd to fight then P. Williams was above most if not all those that I mentioned. Facts: - Ortiz quit against Maidana (2 years before) and drawed against Peterson (a year before) and even though he won, was knocked down twice (fight before Floyd) against Berto in his only fight at 147. Yet you made up excuses about not fighting a riskier Williams? Now keep in mind that P.Williams called Floyd out even after your example of the "loss" by Williams (even more than 2 years later) and was ready to come down in weight ... but you ignore that FACT. So again, the quitting Ortiz, yes but not Williams who quickly revenged his loss (Ortiz didn't) and only loss until Martinez fight. - Marquez had just move up from 130 to 135 yet he was a prime time opponent for Floyd but not P. Williams because of what again? - Hatton fought ONCE at 147 and looked very average yet Williams who beat Margarito and revenged Quintana was not OK? - Sharmba at 147? Sharmba was OK for Floyd then why not fight the guy who beat Sharmba? - Guerrero - knocked down by Katsidis and very hittable. All he had to do was beat Berto (like evryone else has done lately). - Canelo - Canelo's team stated that Floyd wanted even a greener version of Canelo. Who did Canelo beat before Trout that made Floyd's team say that? Even Trout had many questions about him and even then, Canelo was not impressive (low work-rate, stamina issues ....) - Khan - Why is Floyd's team and GB always bringing up this guy that gets wobbled in every fight and has done nothing of late but Williams had to do more? Even when Williams beat guys like Martinez, he called out Floyd at a CW. Williams called out Floyd but found Williams to be a risky fighter. That is the bottom line that you can't admit to. Williams was avoided by many but you defend your hero Floyd on this front when everyone knows that Floyd never wanted to fight Williams. Like I said before, Floyd avoided the riskier fights for a reason. THEY WERE TOO RISKY!!! I named Martinez, Manny and Williams as examples of that. They all called out Floyd. The bigger guys even said they were willing to CW but Floyd said no .... but that same Floyd was OK to go up to fight Canelo and a version of Cotto that had lost or been in many wars. Floyd was OK in fighting those who I mentioned above even though they hardly got their feet wet in the WW division or were kinda green. I'm not stuck. This is the opinion of many. Floyd had the opportunity to fight risky fights where the odds would not be slanted by as drastic as those that Floyd cherry picked (see list above). Would only 20% of BS fans pick Williams over Floyd like Guerrero? Williams or that version of Marquez? Baldomir the champ (lol)? So why are you sticking to that excuse of yours? Floyd had several years where he could have faced Williams. Again, go back 1, 2 or 3 years and ask yourself where was Marquez, Guerrero, Ortiz, .... and so on? "I'm sure Manny would be OK to face me but not Floyd. He doesn't like the risks" - Paul Williams

exactly.. dodge the question They fought. Paul declined the rematch. No need to answer a question that has no validity. Again, they actually stepped into the ring across from each other and fought. Nothing else matters.

Floyd & Cotto ducked Paul Williams. Both Margario & Williams ducked each other at one point (depends on how you look at it). So I guess that means you can add Pac to that list as well then.

He fought him. Paul wanted no immediate rematch. End of story. exactly.. dodge the question

Before their first fight the Margarito team wanted no part of Williams. Goossen offered Arum a 2 fight deal. Margarito and Cotto. Only way to get to Miguel was if Williams got past Tony. He did. The latter never happened. Arum balked and made sure that no one on his stable would face Williams again. Tony, Cotto, Clottey and even Pavlik. If Williams ducked Margarito, as you try to make others believe, then why didn't anyone else from Top Rank fight him after he defeated Tony? Don't shy away from the question. Give me your honest thoughts, please He fought him. Paul wanted no immediate rematch. End of story.

Williams ducked the immediate rematch. The article is here in the archives. Before their first fight the Margarito team wanted no part of Williams. Goossen offered Arum a 2 fight deal. Margarito and Cotto. Only way to get to Miguel was if Williams got past Tony. He did. The latter never happened. Arum balked and made sure that no one on his stable would face Williams again. Tony, Cotto, Clottey and even Pavlik. If Williams ducked Margarito, as you try to make others believe, then why didn't anyone else from Top Rank fight him after he defeated Tony? Don't shy away from the question. Give me your honest thoughts, please

You know Williams and his promoter offered Top Rank a two bout deal? One with Margarito and if they win, the next with Cotto. Margarito was never in the initial plans of either side. Williams wanted to capitalize and fight Cotto right after Margarito. Do you not recall the excuses Team Margarito kept trying to make to avoid the first fight in the first place? If not, ask. I'll easily show them to you Williams ducked the immediate rematch. The article is here in the archives.

Paul Williams refused the immediate rematch. What was Tony supposed to do? Wait around for him forever? You know Williams and his promoter offered Top Rank a two bout deal? One with Margarito and if they win, the next with Cotto. Margarito was never in the initial plans of either side. Williams wanted to capitalize and fight Cotto right after Margarito. Do you not recall the excuses Team Margarito kept trying to make to avoid the first fight in the first place? If not, ask. I'll easily show them to you

Floyd & Cotto ducked Paul Williams. Both Margario & Williams ducked each other at one point (depends on how you look at it).

Also this is a Paul Williams thread why are we arguing hard about Floyd wtf is wrong with you because looking back I don't see where I big upped Floyd or said anything anyone should have taken offense to. The only thing I said was losing to Quintana fucked any argument Williams had, which it did he was just building up when that happened and losing that fight killed any chances he had of getting a really big fight. No one was calling for anyone to fight William post losing to Quintana other than Margarito and by then Margarito was on another plan so there was no way he was taking that risk. Although it probably was a mistake to take the Mosley fight instead of Williams for more money but hindsight is 20/20 I am sure they thought of Mosley a a much safer choice at the time which was the popular opinion.

From a practical standpoint, even Paul Williams admitted that no one can blame fellow welterweight world champion Antonio Margarito for wanting to fight Oscar De La Hoya. Anyone who steps into the ring with De La Hoya makes his biggest payday. “Business-wise, I understand that,” Williams said. But Williams said that doesn’t mean Margarito-De La Hoya would be a better fight than one between he and Margarito. “It’s not a good fight,” he said, referring to a possible, yet improbable, Margarito-De La Hoya fight. “Everybody knows Oscar puts on a good fight, but he fades late. But with me, we going to fight the whole 12 rounds.” In short, Williams said Tuesday, he would like to see the two best welterweights in the world square off to see who indeed is the top dog in the division. To him and many experts, that would be he and Margarito, who is coming off an 11th-round technical knockout of Miguel Cotto on July 26. “We the two biggest names out there at 147 since Floyd Mayweather left, so why can’t we fight to see who the best is?” Williams said. Paul Williams refused the immediate rematch. What was Tony supposed to do? Wait around for him forever?

YOU said "but Williams lost once". I responded that so did Judah. At least Quintana has boxing skills (not Baldomir) and at least Williams lost it close and at least Williams revenged with an early KO. Did Judah revenge after that loss? Did he ever win a WW title after that loss? NO, NO and ...NO!!! Again, you can't say "but Williams lost" then make up excuses for the Judah fight, like you did, again! Don't you get it? Floyd didn't want to fight certain fighters so he will "use" something to say it's not right. You just did the same! Floyd "Why should I fight Mosley .... he already lost 5 times!" but he is ready to fight an older inactive version with 5 losses!!! It's all excuses! Now Judah is just one example. Please let me know what many of those other fighters that Floyd fought had that made them this elite god at WW? What did Marquez do at 147? Guerrero? Sharmba? Hatton? Ortiz? Khan? So the list is very long of why you need to do a lot better than the excuses that you are presenting here. Judah is not worthless. I used your logic in which you borrowed from Floyd, that one single loss on Williams record was the reason Floyd shouldn't have fought Williams but Judah had just lost and had lost several other times as well. You should have just said, yes, Floyd wanted no part of Williams. I'm sure that Manny's people thought that was a size mismatch and can be troublesome for Manny but you just can't even show some doubt in your response which makes you less of an objective person. Especially when most here believe that Floyd has ducked several fights. So as I began to state above, Floyd has shown a pattern of ducking. Now you don't have to take my word for it. Just ask some of Floyd's previous opponents and non-opponents and they will admit to that. Even Williams said that there was a better chance at Manny fighting him but there was NO CHANCE that Floyd would because he didn't want that fight due to the risks. Guerrero said the same. Floyd sometimes speaks the truth. Floyd fans can't distinguish or pretend not to because it would hurt Floyd. How can we tell? Using historical facts! Floyd had plenty of opportunities to fight P. Williams, Martinez, Manny and so on. You know, guys that called him out but Floyd wasn't too anxious yet he was OK even at 154 (ooops 152 CW) against a relatively green Canelo. I wonder why? lol but you pretend that there was such a small minute opportunity to fight guys like Williams which is untrue! Some guys had called out Floyd for YEARS! Final point: Floyd says he fights for money. Right? Now I have heard many Floyd fans say that and agree with that just to protect Floyd and say that is why he doesn't fight so and so. Now we all know that is a lie because then the Floyd vs Manny fight would have been made already ...... but the real point here is if you agree with that statement from Floyd then don't come back here and contradict yourself and say that Floyd fights the best ..... because that is nonsense. By the way, I don't mind someone having different opinions and being even very vocal about it but please try to stick to boxing discussions instead of insulting people. It's just not cool. My logic is not Floyd's and I insult those that deserve insulting and I can't be asked to be sorry about that. IF you were worthy of respect I would give it but you aren't. Point blank I told you not to talk to me and that I had no desire to listen to your garbage but you carried on. Floyd always says whatever benefits his stance he is not a guy I ever listen really to, he contradicts himself constantly and has proven himself to be a hypocrite on multiple occasions. Luckily for him that has nothing to really do with boxing, however you seem real interested in what he has to say I never said Floyd shouldn't have fought Williams, or anybody. There was just little point of it. There was more of a point to Floyd fighting Judah when he did than fighting Williams after he got beat by Quintana. A fight not happening is just that, a fight that didn't happen, you trying to place greater meaning on fights that didn't occur than those that did occur is why you are hard to take serious. All the fights he took were wrong, yet all the fights he didn't were tough fights? You don't realize how biased that sounds? All I see is a diatribe where you pick and choose which guys were good and which guys weren't, the guys Floyd beat were all pretty good fighters it is not like William or Margarito are much better if at all. The only guy who was better that he didn't fight was Manny (and his dossier looks a lot like Floyd's so if you respect Manny you should respect Floyd)and there are two sides to that tale while you only ever tell one, believing the whole Arum tale. You are a straight up joke, you write all this but it really says nothing and you have no idea what I am all about. You say facts all I see is a lot of opinion and hear-say. Floyd's career is worthy of respect and what he has done is not outweighed buy what he hasn't done Williams and Margarito are nothing different than what Floyd has beat good fighters which Floyd has beat a lot of. You seem stuck on so much stuff about a guy you don't like, let it go it is healthier

From a practical standpoint, even Paul Williams admitted that no one can blame fellow welterweight world champion Antonio Margarito for wanting to fight Oscar De La Hoya. Anyone who steps into the ring with De La Hoya makes his biggest payday. “Business-wise, I understand that,” Williams said. But Williams said that doesn’t mean Margarito-De La Hoya would be a better fight than one between he and Margarito. “It’s not a good fight,” he said, referring to a possible, yet improbable, Margarito-De La Hoya fight. “Everybody knows Oscar puts on a good fight, but he fades late. But with me, we going to fight the whole 12 rounds.” In short, Williams said Tuesday, he would like to see the two best welterweights in the world square off to see who indeed is the top dog in the division. To him and many experts, that would be he and Margarito, who is coming off an 11th-round technical knockout of Miguel Cotto on July 26. “We the two biggest names out there at 147 since Floyd Mayweather left, so why can’t we fight to see who the best is?” Williams said.