http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/articles-frontpage/17280-a-look-back-at-mayweather-alvarez-part-one
A great piece by renowned boxing writer Thomas Hauser
Here are some snippets from the article
It’s starts with Mayweather’s skill as a fighter.
Mayweather seeks to control every aspect of his life. Thus, it’s ironic that his chosen sport is boxing. In baseball, everyone waits for the pitcher. A golfer does what he can do with the laws of physics as his only adversary. Boxing is the hardest sport in the world for an athlete to control.
Over the course of twelve rounds, Mayweather controls the confines of a boxing ring as few men ever have.
The most admirable thing about Floyd is his work ethic and dedication to his craft.
The same can be said of Mayweather. He and Bernard Hopkins have two of the highest “boxing IQs” in the business. Like Hopkins, Floyd shuts down his opponent, taking away what the opponent does best.
“Floyd has man strength and he knows how to use it,” Hopkins says.
Also, as great a fighter as Mayweather is, there’s one flaw on his resume. He has consistently avoided the best available opposition.
A fighter doesn’t have to be bloodied and knocked down and come off the canvas to prove his greatness. A fighter can also prove that he has the heart of a legendary champion by testing himself against the best available competition.
Mayweather has done neither.
Floyd said earlier this month, “I push myself to the limit by fighting the best.”
That has all the sincerity of posturing by a political candidate.
Mayweather has some outstanding victories on his ring record. But his career has been marked by the avoidance of tough opponents in their prime.
There always seems to be someone who Mayweather is ducking. The most notable example was his several-year avoidance of Manny Pacquiao. Bob Arum (Pacquiao’s promoter) might not have wanted the fight. But Manny clearly did. And it appeared as though Floyd didn’t.
Mayweather also steered clear of Paul Williams, Antonio Margarito, and Miguel Cotto in their prime. He waited to fight Cotto until Miguel (like Shane Mosley) was a shell of his former self. Then Floyd made a show of saying that he’d fight Cotto at 154 pounds so Miguel would be at his best. But when Sergio Martinez offered to come down to 154, Floyd said that he’d only fight Martinez at 150 (an impossible weight for Sergio to make).
“Mayweather has picked his spots in one way or another throughout his career. Floyd got over big time on Juan Manuel Marquez with his weigh-in trickery at the last moment. He fought Oscar De La Hoya and barely won when Oscar was a corpse. Shane Mosley was an empty package when he finally fought him seven years after the fight truly meant anything. As terrific as Mayweather is, he's not the Bible of boxing the way he projects himself as being. He came along when there were some other outstanding fighters at or near his weight. Yet, aside from the late Diego Corrales, he has never met any of them when the fight would have confirmed his greatness. It would be great to write about Mayweather and laud all that he has accomplished as a fighter without bringing up these inconvenient facts. But it can't be done if you're being intellectually honest.”
Will avoiding the best fighters available harm Floyd's legacy?
I din't call Cotto one of the best ever, one of the best welters of the last decade, yes.
And you are a ****ing moron, a piece of hsit, mother****ing, cunt licking, **** eating, slime sucking fuktard, if you think Barrera was not at his best when Pacquiao fought him.
If we're done now, you can go **** yourself.
What excuses have I made for Manny? I personally don't believe he ducked anyone. For much of 2000-2010, Manny fought from superbantam to superfeather, in that time he fought almost every relevant champion and challenger, including 3 certified ATGs and 3 of the best Mexican fighters not named Julio Cesar Chavez.
Then he ended the decade by beating on a guy that was meant to stop it and then beat on one of the best welterweights ever, who would, 3 years later, give the supposed "best of his era" one of his toughest fights.
Looks to me like you said Cotto was one of the best welters ever? There is no qualification in that statement. This was done but you had to bring up a post that is now days old crying like a spurned teenage girl.
Your boxing take is whack and all you have is name calling because you can't defend your point and get mad when someone does the same thing you do to a fighter you have respect for. What I did to Barrera is exactly what you do to Floyd's opponents and it is all true.
Like I said watch more boxing and we can have an adult boxing conversation until then I will treat you like the novice rookie you are that can't even see his own shortcoming~
You did about the fights he missed saying those weren't good enough. They were all old and past it except JMM even the first Barrera fight Barrera was not at his best. So if you rate guys on reputation and not where they actually are for Manny why do you not do that for Floyd.
Did you just call Cotto one of the best welterweights ever? Watch some more boxing this conversation is not worth having~
I din't call Cotto one of the best ever, one of the best welters of the last decade, yes.
And you are a ****ing moron, a piece of hsit, mother****ing, cunt licking, **** eating, slime sucking fuktard, if you think Barrera was not at his best when Pacquiao fought him.
If we're done now, you can go **** yourself.
Who am I going to listen to every respected fighter and trainer or a geek who never fought decisions decisions. In ten years or so Floyd and Lebron are probably going to be call the greatest ever in there sports because the generation of fans who watch them now will be the ones with the pen and wont have clue or care what Jordan or a Ray Robinson did in the past.
do you really believe in what you wrote? tens of years ago when Ray Robinson grace the ring yet you yourself is still mentioning his name what made you think floyd have already surpassed what SRR accomplished atop the ring that his name is even worthy of mentioning in second in the next ten years or so? floyd may have surpassed the earnings of tyson but hell never be the greatest even if he still has the "0" he will still wear the brand of being a ducker.
and lastly, still wrong, Jordan is still the benchmark, not lebron, not kobe can replace him maybe someday somebody may come along but not now.
People still talk about Marciano retiring to avoid Patterson.
Obviously Floyd avoidance of the talented fighters around in his time will be a subject of debate in the future just as it is today.
Marcianno, even though he has a perfect record is not thought as highly as the likes of Ali and Louis because of the standard of his opposition.
Floyd will suffer from that too, and more so because there were the elite fights he could have made happen.
clearly polling of casual fans and boxing media contradict this post. A loud, vocal minority is still just that- a minority. For now floyd is ok, especially since he's changed his public persona. that persona was what drove a lot of the negative feelings and hate.
WIth that gone, the majority of credible media and fans are focusing on his body of work and are acknowledging how great he is. Their will always be tose that focus elsewhere. same with every other fighter.
There will always be media/fans like you who have an elevated sense of self that will bang the gong loudly to get attention with the hopes of changing the perception of floyd.
You make very good arguments. But don't you still think is still a strong perception that Floyd ducks fights? That is going to haunt his legacy. He may say he doesn't care but you can clearly see it gets into his craw! He could easily put an end to this none sense. He took the correct step with facing Canelo. Big win for Floyd. I don't feel as if it is too late. He can't correct the mistake with Pac. Floyd is in a lose/lose situation if he every faces Pac now. I do blame him for that one.
People still talk about Marciano retiring to avoid Patterson.
Obviously Floyd avoidance of the talented fighters around in his time will be a subject of debate in the future just as it is today.
Marcianno, even though he has a perfect record is not thought as highly as the likes of Ali and Louis because of the standard of his opposition.
Floyd will suffer from that too, and more so because there were the elite fights he could have made happen.
This stupid thread is still up:Flush:
Sometimes you gotta have fun with the kids. Let their imaginations grow by trolling, i mean telling the stories they've made up in their head.
This stupid thread is still up:Flush:
Some of us actually enjoy discussing our thoughts. I actually don't have friends that talk about boxing. I appreciate a thread that can have some decent ideas tossed out there without someone trying to ridicule you.
You make very good arguments. But don't you still think is still a strong perception that Floyd ducks fights? That is going to haunt his legacy. He may say he doesn't care but you can clearly see it gets into his craw! He could easily put an end to this none sense. He took the correct step with facing Canelo. Big win for Floyd. I don't feel as if it is too late. He can't correct the mistake with Pac. Floyd is in a lose/lose situation if he every faces Pac now. I do blame him for that one.
Mine own personal experience, I try to get people involved in boxing, tell them about fights going on get some interest going.
But the line I keep getting back is that in boxing the best don't fight the best, them referring the the Mayweather vs Pacquiao non fight, saying it not that in the UFC or whatever they watch.
So that was all from the tiny world of D4th with nothing to support it. Much more credible than a phone poll, I'm sure. When the numbers say different, I'll give your notion some credence.
You proved my point that people's perceptions can come out of nothing concrete and others with an agenda will run with it.
You can look and a number of great champions in the past and say they never fought this fighter or that fighter, but none have consistently done it over a large part of their career
Complete nonesense. You dislike the guy so much, that you will lie and distort the facts, just to make him look bad.
Casamayor, Freitas, Hamed Floyd called all three out and none were interested.
Prime ODH & Mosley both didn't want the fight. High risk, low reward.
140 Tszyu Floyd called him out once he was @ 140 & the very next fight, he got his azz handed to him by Hatton and retired.
140 Cotto didn't want the fight
147 Cotto admitted he never asked for or pushed for the fight. Not to mention, Floyd was not working w/Top Rank then.
147 Margarito He was willing to fight for 8 mil if he got guarantees of 10 mil for Cotto, Hatton & 20 mil for ODH. He was denied & became a free agent. Instead of fighting all four for the 58 mil that he requested(but was denied), he fought 3 of the four for 95 mil. That's a duck? Wonder what Pac would've done?
147 Paul Williams this fight was spoken about for Pac as well. Did Pac duck him too?
150/154 Sergio Martinez He called out both Floyd and Pac @ 150. If Floyd is "ducking", then so is Pac. How does a WW or WW posing as a SWW duck a MW anyway?
Those are all facts? So please logically explained why you consider them ducks?
People will see the vacations for what they are, ways to avoid fighters, then we have the list of road blocks he put up to avoid the Pacquiao fight, moving the goal posts on each occasion.
SRL took more vacations than Floyd did. Floyd can't be blamed for the fighters that ducked him. 2008 Cotto, Margarito, Mosley, Williams, Clottey were top welters. 2 of the 3 had already refused to fight Floyd. June 2007 Margarito lost to William. July Floyd beat Hatton, then "retired". So how was he ducking a fighter who had never had a signifigant win except Cintron who had lost to a fighter that who had never had a signifigant win PERIOD?
Random Blood & Urine drug testing is not a "roadblock", Pac proved that but demanding it of Rios! Not to mention proved that all his excuses not to do take the tests with FMJ were lies and a way out of the fight. Either it a roadblock for both or neither. You can't have it both ways. Also, Count the number of "roadblocks" compared to the number of excuses Pac had. Pac had a lot more. If you call it "moving the goal post", then obviously your too stupid to understand how business and negotiations work.
One criticism non-boxing fans throw at boxing is the best don't fight the best, and Mayweather is the main culprit, and has turned fans to sports like the UFC
Bob Arum starting this "Floyd ducking" nonesense and you are just one of his many followers. A lie if repeated enough seems to become the truth, just ask Nazi Germany. Seems like a place you might enjoy living.
By the way, I love how you "ducked" my previous post. To much truth for you, huh?
I get incredibly frustrated at some of the match making or lack there of... in boxing. That being said there seems to be enough to keep me pretty happy. I was excited about Floyd vs. Canelo. If you reflect as a fan you become incredibly thankful for your memories of Pac vs Morales, Angulo vs Kirkland, Gatt vs Ward, Toney vs. Jirov, Castillo vs. Corrales, etc. Most people don't know who these people are. UFC controls everything. There isn't any real negotiations between fighters. Dana White makes the match ups, if fans are begging for a fight he typically makes it happen. The model seems to be fan based because they can generate the dollars. The best fighter in the UFC is taking home less money than an a boxing match by a fighter that only we know. For example, Nonito Donaire. Big dollars are falling into Dana White's pockets and if his top dog gets beat... no problem. The new top dog is his already for half the payout. There is an endless supply of human capital for him. Boxers who rake in the cash are in short supply and therefore protected. I give UFC credit for their strategy. It works for now. Evolution of the sport and the long term punishments of mma has yet to reveal its head.
I apologize,I thought criticism came from factual evidence rather than opinionated fabrications of actual events.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/criticism
1.
the act of passing judgment as to the merits of anything.
2.
the act of passing severe judgment; censure; faultfinding.
3.
the act or art of analyzing and evaluating or judging the quality of a literary or artistic work, musical performance, art exhibit, dramatic production, etc.
4.
a critical comment, article, or essay; critique.
5.
any of various methods of studying texts or documents for the purpose of dating or reconstructing them, evaluating their authenticity, analyzing their content or style, etc.: historical criticism; literary criticism.
Errrr....no it isnt, not if the criticism was spot on and it was, so take it on the chin as its not you he's criticising, just your hero. I dont need to call you a floydiot either, you do a good enough job of that yourself with the sycophantic guff you spout.
I apologize,I thought criticism came from factual evidence rather than opinionated fabrications of actual events.
I enjoy watching boxing and UFC. I have enjoyed boxing since the John Tate vs Mike Williams fight. I saw the first UFC over twenty years ago. They are different animals. Floyd might go down as a revolutionary of the sport in the context of a fighter's control of their own destiny. I know I am guilty of compare today with "yesterday." Leonard without Hagler, Hearns, Duran? Holmes without Cooney and Spinks? Ali without Frazier, Spinks, Foreman? Perhaps in twenty years fans look back and remember a legendary night with Floyd? I am not so sure.
Floyd is never in a FOTY contender. When we look back at the great fighters of the past, it is normally to see them in a great fight.
e.g Duran vs Leonard, Hagler vs Hearns, Ali vs Foreman.
If you want to get someone into boxing to become a fan of the sport, no way are you going to show them a Floyd fight.
Does it frustrate you the problems in boxing with some big fights not getting made.
There seems little politics in UFC, but I'm just not a fan of the sport.
I enjoy watching boxing and UFC. I have enjoyed boxing since the John Tate vs Mike Williams fight. I saw the first UFC over twenty years ago. They are different animals. Floyd might go down as a revolutionary of the sport in the context of a fighter's control of their own destiny. I know I am guilty of compare today with "yesterday." Leonard without Hagler, Hearns, Duran? Holmes without Cooney and Spinks? Ali without Frazier, Spinks, Foreman? Perhaps in twenty years fans look back and remember a legendary night with Floyd? I am not so sure.
So was it Thomas Hauser that did the "non-boxing fans" research? Or did you make that up? What are the numbers of boxing fans that have turned away from the sport for UFC? Have the UFC Figures been consistently growing year on year? How did the Mayweather's last PPV numbers affect them?
Mine own personal experience, I try to get people involved in boxing, tell them about fights going on get some interest going.
But the line I keep getting back is that in boxing the best don't fight the best, them referring the the Mayweather vs Pacquiao non fight, saying it not that in the UFC or whatever they watch.
Maybe they should decided Presidential elections on TV phone polls since you think they are so good.:slap:
So was it Thomas Hauser that did the "non-boxing fans" research? Or did you make that up? What are the numbers of boxing fans that have turned away from the sport for UFC? Have the UFC Figures been consistently growing year on year? How did the Mayweather's last PPV numbers affect them?
If American Idol did a phone poll who the best singer was, Justin Bieber might be top.
T.V. Phone polls:Flush:
Thasts the same thing many of us have said for years about Manny's FOTD award.
At the end of the day if the people vote beiber the best all you can do is agree or disagree.
the usual suspects-who all claimed floyd wouldn't fight Canelo-have come out with the usual articles/blog posts/threads in response to the success of the promotion and all the positive press floyd has been getting because of his performance.
The espn poll, while flawed, clearly shows those articles/blogs/threads have not been successful at changing the opinions of casual fans. The positive press shows they haven't changed the opinions of us diehards either.
So what "non-boxing" fans think (according to you anyway) is valid when YOU want to make a point but those that took the time to vote aren't noteworthy? A little consistency please.
Emoticons=I don't have a constructive argument.
Maybe they should decided Presidential elections on TV phone polls since you think they are so good.:slap: