MW Division is Depressing

↑ Great post. I have no idea how people can be complaining about the current middleweight division. Well if Sergio had any balls, he would have entered negotiations with GGG or Quillin who've been calling him out for the last 2 years. Instead, he fights bums he knows he should beat and nearly gets KTFO in the process.. Martinez fights bums? That's a new one; don't know where the **** you got that idea from. Please list the supposed bums that Martinez has fought.

What makes the division so depressing is that no one will fight anyone. Each champion blames the other but I know if they wanted it, the fight would happen. So we are stuck watching them make weak title defenses and meaningless fights. Wake me when it's over. Martinez has fought just about every legit opponent and worthy champion over the last few years, beating Pavlik, Williams, Barker, Murray, Macklin, Dzinzurik, chavez jr and so on. It's only recently that Quillin and GGG have got "championship" belts around their waists. Heck GGG has only had 4 or 5 fights on HBO and only one was a legit opponent. In that time frame martinez has come back from career ending injuries, fought again and been injured again. What more do you want? What more can he do in the division? Fight GGG? Sure but like I said GGG has only recently become champion and in Macklin just recently fought his bets opponent. Martinez due to injury has been out and will be out till 2014. In that time GGG should look to fight the likes of Murray, N'Dam, Rubio there are plenty of good contenders out there. Barker has just become champion and I really want him to have a massive home clash against Murray, both men are world class. After that fightiung highly ranked guys in Sturm or rematch with Geale, no harm in that. It's still top 10 guys fighting other top 10 guys. Why GGG is fighting an unranked, unknown, c level opponent in Stevens is beyond me. He takes a step up then takes 10 steps back. IMO he is on the same level as Quillin in terms of deserving a fight with Martinez. Heck, GGG has beat up on more light middleweights and blown up welters in his career than Canelo did. So all in all, Martinez is the undisputed kingpin of the division, I hope he comes back from injury as soon as possible. Below Martinez, in the second tier of the division we've already has some very good fights with a lot of top 10 guys fighting each other, more so than in any other division. I don't see anything to complain about.

Its the Heavyweight division all over again... One big strong skilled dedicated fighter against a bunch of guys so far from his level, its not even fun watching them fight each other

What makes the division so depressing is that no one will fight anyone. Each champion blames the other but I know if they wanted it, the fight would happen. So we are stuck watching them make weak title defenses and meaningless fights. Wake me when it's over.

While he was at 154 he had 2 fights at HBO, not 3. He won an elim vs Saul Roman 1 week before Floyd DLH. I doubt either guy knew his name. I know he was being ducked by Forrest, but by the time he left 154 he didn't have a fraction of GGG's present hype. His fight against Paul Williams (at 160) also affected his 154 ranking because prior to the fight both guys were ranked at 154. The ranking I showed you is from 2009 so everything Martinez did that year influenced the ranking in some way (so like I said he had 3 fights on HBO and was shown on U.S. networks since 2007). Even after Sergio beat Pavlik, he was still ranked (and considered) a 154 pounder. He held titles at 154 and 160 simultaneously. I'm not sure whether his hype then was what Golovkin's is now, but it was certainly out there--otherwise he probably wouldn't have gotten the Williams and Pavlik fights. I also think we are getting way off topic... :Thinkingo

I think he did have considerable notoriety, by 2009 he already had 3 HBO fights and had been fighting on American networks since 2007. He was definitely ducked in the division for years, proof of it is that he didn't get a full title belt until he was 34 despite winning 28 fights in a row. At 154 he was De La Hoya's mandatory, then Floyd's, then Forrest's. Initially he should have inherited the WBC title from Floyd after Floyd vacated, but somehow Forrest got the belt instead and proceeded to duck him for years. While he was at 154 he had 2 fights at HBO, not 3. He won an elim vs Saul Roman 1 week before Floyd DLH. I doubt either guy knew his name. I know he was being ducked by Forrest, but by the time he left 154 he didn't have a fraction of GGG's present hype.

GGG isn't the best MW, at least not yet. I think Martinez's last 3 or 4 fights have showed that he's slipped a bit and I would make Golovkin a favorite over him. Especailly since he is injured now and when the fight happens Martinez will be even older.

I wouldn't really be backing either guy against the other i just hope they would both show their best and would be absolutely thrilled to witness it. Pirog isnt a boxer or counter puncher that fights going backwards he either pressures you like the Jacobs fight if you try to box him or if you're willing to stand in front of him he fights his fight right there and is a volume puncher. He's elusive with a good defense and would get hit less than any other MW, even Martinez at this point, but he's still going to get hit alot and i don't see anyone going 12 rounds with Golovkin. Even if his chin and body can take it his face/skin won't hold up. Both of them have excellent varity and combinations and it would be beautiful to watch but i have a hard time seeing Pirog winning it. 60/40 Golovkin and i do think it's the hardest fight for Gena at 160. My thoughts exactly right down to the T. I believe Pirog's face just wouldnt hold up.

I think he did have considerable notoriety, by 2009 he already had 3 HBO fights and had been fighting on American networks since 2007. He was definitely ducked in the division for years, proof of it is that he didn't get a full title belt until he was 34 despite winning 28 fights in a row. At 154 he was De La Hoya's mandatory, then Floyd's, then Forrest's. Initially he should have inherited the WBC title from Floyd after Floyd vacated, but somehow Forrest got the belt instead and proceeded to duck him for years. I was going to hit on that, it's not something a lot of people ever mention.

It's not cause he was gassed, he was getting hit a lot from the beginning. Ouma does that, and GGG happily engaged featherfisted Ouma in a slugging match. Yeah it's actually very similar to GGG at MW. Still he didn't have anywhere near the notoriety and the ducking, so I'm surprised he got to #1. But looking at that list, it's not outrageous. I think he did have considerable notoriety, by 2009 he already had 3 HBO fights and had been fighting on American networks since 2007. He was definitely ducked in the division for years, proof of it is that he didn't get a full title belt until he was 34 despite winning 28 fights in a row. At 154 he was De La Hoya's mandatory, then Floyd's, then Forrest's. Initially he should have inherited the WBC title from Floyd after Floyd vacated, but somehow Forrest got the belt instead and proceeded to duck him for years.

He got hit a lot (look at his face) because he wouldn't keep his hands up, he wouldn't keep his hands up because he was gassed. Notice that Ouma was also gassed, this was a pretty nasty fight. When you put things in context it makes a lot more sense. This was the 154 ranking at the time: Sergio Gabriel Martinez (WBC) Cory Spinks (IBF) Kermit Cintron Deandre Latimore Ryan Rhodes Alfredo Angulo Yuri Foreman (WBA) Joachim Alcine Vanes Martirosyan Zaurbek Baysangurov Vernon Forrest was stripped of the WBC in 2008 for ducking Martinez, he also passed away in 2009 so he was removed from the ranking. Paul Williams moved to 160. Kermit Cintron was a live dog and got a win over Angulo that year. Most of the other guys hadn't fought each other or were avoiding Martinez. Sergio had wins over Cintron, Bunema (coming off some notable wins), Saul Roman (a live dog then), and a close fight against P. Will (at 160) a lot of people thought he won. Maybe it's a bit like saying how is Golovkin the #1 contender at 160 when he only has a win against Macklin. It's not cause he was gassed, he was getting hit a lot from the beginning. Ouma does that, and GGG happily engaged featherfisted Ouma in a slugging match. Yeah it's actually very similar to GGG at MW. Still he didn't have anywhere near the notoriety and the ducking, so I'm surprised he got to #1. But looking at that list, it's not outrageous.

I streamed the Ouma fight live, and rewatched it feeling dirty, like watching snuff flick. It was exactly after round 6 that he really started taking liberties with poor Ouma. I didn't really see stamina issues in the Rosado fight, seems like you're fishing for anything. He got hit a lot (look at his face) because he wouldn't keep his hands up, he wouldn't keep his hands up because he was gassed. Notice that Ouma was also gassed, this was a pretty nasty fight. BTW I'm amazed that Martinez got to #1 at 154 with just Bunema and Cintron. Is this really true? When you put things in context it makes a lot more sense. This was the 154 ranking at the time: Sergio Gabriel Martinez (WBC) Cory Spinks (IBF) Kermit Cintron Deandre Latimore Ryan Rhodes Alfredo Angulo Yuri Foreman (WBA) Joachim Alcine Vanes Martirosyan Zaurbek Baysangurov Vernon Forrest was stripped of the WBC in 2008 for ducking Martinez, he also passed away in 2009 so he was removed from the ranking. Paul Williams moved to 160. Kermit Cintron was a live dog and got a win over Angulo that year. Most of the other guys hadn't fought each other or were avoiding Martinez. Sergio had wins over Cintron, Bunema (coming off some notable wins), Saul Roman (a live dog then), and a close fight against P. Will (at 160) a lot of people thought he won. Maybe it's a bit like saying how is Golovkin the #1 contender at 160 when he only has a win against Macklin.

Watch the Ouma fight from the 6th round on and the Rosado fight from the 5th round on. It's only natural that he would have some stamina issues because he has never gone 10 rounds once and most of his fights end before the first 5 rounds. Also P.WIll's resume at 160 was probably better than most middleweights at the time. Winky Whright was considered the #1 middleweight contender by the RING in 2007 and #10 in 2009, Sergio Martinez was the #1 ranked 154 fighter and became the lineal middleweight champ right after his first P.WIll fight. I streamed the Ouma fight live, and rewatched it feeling dirty, like watching snuff flick. It was exactly after round 6 that he really started taking liberties with poor Ouma. I didn't really see stamina issues in the Rosado fight, seems like you're fishing for anything. I agree MW sucked at the time. But beating 3 unranked dudes shouldn't rank you high in that division. BTW I'm amazed that Martinez got to #1 at 154 with just Bunema and Cintron. Is this really true?

I don't see any evidence of stamina issues. His output is moderate, especially early in the fight. The one time he went long he was unloading on Ouma late As for PWill, none of those guys were ranked at MW. not top 10, not even top 20 Watch the Ouma fight from the 6th round on and the Rosado fight from the 5th round on. It's only natural that he would have some stamina issues because he has never gone 10 rounds once and most of his fights end before the first 5 rounds. Also P.WIll's resume at 160 was probably better than most middleweights at the time. Winky Whright was considered the #1 middleweight contender by the RING in 2007 and #10 in 2009, Sergio Martinez was the #1 ranked 154 fighter and became the lineal middleweight champ right after his first P.WIll fight.

I think GGG's stamina may be his greatest problem as he steps up in competition against guys who won't bow out in the first few rounds (this could happen at 160 or 168). When Sergio KO'd Williams, P. Will already had 3 fights at 160 including a KO1 against Andy Kolle, a shuout UD against Winky Whright and a SD win over Sergio Martinez. I don't see any evidence of stamina issues. His output is moderate, especially early in the fight. The one time he went long he was unloading on Ouma late As for PWill, none of those guys were ranked at MW. not top 10, not even top 20

who do you think is better? lemme guess, Martinez? lmao he's irrelevant. Kind of like Danny's gonna be in a couple of weeks. :rofl:

I wouldn't really be backing either guy against the other i just hope they would both show their best and would be absolutely thrilled to witness it. Pirog isnt a boxer or counter puncher that fights going backwards he either pressures you like the Jacobs fight if you try to box him or if you're willing to stand in front of him he fights his fight right there and is a volume puncher. He's elusive with a good defense and would get hit less than any other MW, even Martinez at this point, but he's still going to get hit alot and i don't see anyone going 12 rounds with Golovkin. Even if his chin and body can take it his face/skin won't hold up. Both of them have excellent varity and combinations and it would be beautiful to watch but i have a hard time seeing Pirog winning it. 60/40 Golovkin and i do think it's the hardest fight for Gena at 160. Didn't Pirog get hit like 300 times against Ishida? I think he's a decent fighter even though we haven't seen him against top talent, but I don't think he's special. I also think Golovkin's toughest fight at 160 could be a fit Sergio Martinez, who has excellent footwork and can pop with the counter left. A guy like Chavez Jr (maybe eve Rubio) would probably give Golovkin problems, specially if after the first five rounds they're still there applying their weight and pressure on GGG. It woud be a very physically demanding fight for GGG. At this point Chavez can't make 160 though so if it happened it would have to happen at 168 where Chavez would likely be even more dangerous (for GGG). I think GGG's stamina may be his greatest problem as he steps up in competition against guys who won't bow out in the first few rounds (this could happen at 160 or 168). All credit for the Pavlik win and Macklin was his best defense. Williams was not a MW, did nothing in the division and it was only his ungodly hype that had people proclaiming he could beat everyone 147-168 that got Martinez his P4P status. I honestly remember people saying he would beat Kessler and Froch. When Sergio KO'd Williams, P. Will already had 3 fights at 160 including a KO1 against Andy Kolle, a shuout UD against Winky Whright and a SD win over Sergio Martinez. Lulz the greatest threat in the division. Chavez was Mexican hype and star power who lost a clear decision to Zbik. Lee and Rubio were decent wins but he was probably cheating to do it with his personal Texas commission not drug testing. I actually thought he beat Zbik, and it was pretty obvious to anyone following him that he was getting better in a fight by fight basis as he gained experience (just like all other fighters) and had more time working with Roach and Ariza, who had just started working with him. Chavez Jr's resume at the time was probably second only to Sergio Martinez and Felix Sturm as most of the top guys at the time weren't fighting each other. Further, Chavez Jr's size, chin, and pressure made him a tough opponent. However, Sergio was probably the worst style match-up possible for him. Assuming he made the weight I'm pretty sure Chavez could beat just about any top middleweight outside of Sergio Martinez.

A Middleweight tournament of the 4 current champion would be nice. And we would have an undisputed MW champion again.:boxing:

Let me ask you I know youve obvuously got a triple G sig and assuming so would back him but in a fight with a healthy Pirog who have you got and why? I wouldn't really be backing either guy against the other i just hope they would both show their best and would be absolutely thrilled to witness it. Pirog isnt a boxer or counter puncher that fights going backwards he either pressures you like the Jacobs fight if you try to box him or if you're willing to stand in front of him he fights his fight right there and is a volume puncher. He's elusive with a good defense and would get hit less than any other MW, even Martinez at this point, but he's still going to get hit alot and i don't see anyone going 12 rounds with Golovkin. Even if his chin and body can take it his face/skin won't hold up. Both of them have excellent varity and combinations and it would be beautiful to watch but i have a hard time seeing Pirog winning it. 60/40 Golovkin and i do think it's the hardest fight for Gena at 160. So you don't think Williams (#1), Chavez Jr (#1), and Macklin (#3) were top 3 contenders when Sergio fought them. He also inherited the recognition as the lineal champion after he beat Pavlik, so he's actually the only real champion in the division, but we all know that of course. After Sergio fought Pavlik, Williams was considered the greatest threat to Sergio's reign in the division. When Sergio fought Macklin, Matthew was coming off a would be win over the #1 contender Sturm--Macklin had also been a top 10 middleweight since 2009. When Sergio fought Chavez Jr, the latter was considered Sergio's greatest threat in the division. Golovkin will probably get his shot at Martinez in the second half of 2014 unless Sergio fights a more lucrative opponent (seems unlikely unless it's Cotto since Sergio won't move up for Chavez). In the meanwhile he can fight the likes of Stevens (now), Mora, Pirog, N'Dam, Murray, Lee, Rubio, Guerrero, Geale, etc. and build up his resume. All credit for the Pavlik win and Macklin was his best defense. Williams was not a MW, did nothing in the division and it was only his ungodly hype that had people proclaiming he could beat everyone 147-168 that got Martinez his P4P status. I honestly remember people saying he would beat Kessler and Froch. Lulz the greatest threat in the division. Chavez was Mexican hype and star power who lost a clear decision to Zbik. Lee and Rubio were decent wins but he was probably cheating to do it with his personal Texas commission not drug testing.

Here's a dream playout. Barker defends against Sturm. Now one of the British MW's has a belt they'll be some domestic fights for it for big money, like Murray pointed out would happen. Murray beats Barker. Murray rematches Martinez this time winning and unifying. Murray's willing to face GGG, and GGG wins, unifies, and bosses MW. A fit Martinez (no broken carpals and injury free hand) KO's Murray or at the very least hurts him badly. An ideal scenario would be Sergio (now healthy and fit) fighting a decent tune-up and looks great (brutally stopping his opponent). GGG KO's Stevens, Mora, Pirog, Geale etc. (4 or 5 guys in a row) and warms up a fight with Sergio for late 2014 (Sept-Nov date?). GGG and Martinez fight for the lineal title in a big PPV fight. Meanwhile, on December 2013 Barker fights and soundly beats Sturm in London (maybe by stoppage). At around the same time Macklin and Lee fight each other in New York. Around March-May, Barker fights Geale or Murray (after an impressive performance in a comeback/tune-up fight). The Barker v. Murray/Geale winner faces the Macklin v. Lee winner. In early 2015, the winner becomes the legitimate challenger to the Martinez v. GGG winner or just GGG since Sergio may be retired by then. Bracket A: late-2013 to mid-2014 Golovkin v. 4-5 contenders (starting w/Stevens, maybe Pirog at some point) Martinez v. decent tune-up opponent late-2014 Martinez v. Golovkin - for the WBC/WBA/RING titles Bracket B: late-2013 Barker v. Sturm (Sturm must lose!) Macklin v. Lee (could also happen on St. Patrick's 2014) mid-2014 Barker v. Murray/Geale late-2014 Macklin/Lee v. Barker/Murray/Geale for the IBF and possible #1 contender status 2015 GGG v. Bracket B Winner (Sergio will probably be retired by this point) By this point GGG will have a thick resume at 160 and can probably move up to 168 as a big draw. Quillin and his WBO title will likely remain isolated unless a non-GDB opponent beats him or the GDB/HBO feud ends.