Wlad surpasses Holmes...

With Wlad's chin, I see Foreman, Louis, Tyson ko'ing him. Matter of fact, I see Shavers definitely stopping Wlad in around when he lost by KO twice, and I see him greatly troubling present Wlad.

Jack Dempsey? Seriously, very pathetic. purely in numerical terms it compares. H2H Dempsey would kill Vitali and Wlad on the same night, of course.

Marvis Frazier could beat Eddie Chambers.

even if you exclude the crap opponents he has fought, then wlad has made almost half a dozen ok defences now. Adding Povetkin will complete that decent six. That matches greats like Jack Dempsey, for instance, even if its way below Holmes et al. Jack Dempsey? Seriously, very pathetic.

So I point out that Larry Holmes, on 9 occasions, defended the HW title against an opponent with less than 20 wins... And your rebuttal is that Wladimir almost fought 1 single solitary title defense against an opponent with less than 20 wins before ultimately calling off the fight in favor of the fight that every fan wanted to see against the man who knocked out the guy he "ducked". As usual you fail to make any sense. The only thing that doesn't make any sense is you trying first of all, to dismiss the Chisora fights. I seem to remember Wlad sitting there saying "remember Ali and Spinks" and bla bla. You also completely disregard the quality of the opponents wins, for example that Wlad's last opponent, Pianeta, recently fought against the guy Audley Harrison fought in his pro debut and knocked out in 90 seconds or so. So it's fine to call off, not one, but two fights against the same guy very late in the preparations in favour of the guy who'd give him a bigger payday? I seem to remember a certain Klitschko family that was pissed with Haye for dropping out of a fight against them in favour of a bigger payday vs Valuev. Once again, you fail to have any sort of objectivity in your post.

You realize you are talking about the guy who signed up to fight Chisora with 14 fights (twice) right? So I point out that Larry Holmes, on 9 occasions, defended the HW title against an opponent with less than 20 wins... And your rebuttal is that Wladimir almost fought 1 single solitary title defense against an opponent with less than 20 wins before ultimately calling off the fight in favor of the fight that every fan wanted to see against the man who knocked out the guy he "ducked". As usual you fail to make any sense.

I remember before Haye-Wlad fight Manny said it is 2nd biggest fight in his coach career. That fight didn't live up to hype but it was a big defining fight that Wlad won convincingly. As I said I don't have Wlad in top5 as yet, but I can see him easily ending up in there. Beating Povetkin + other top5 contender (Pulev) + next champion + not lose in next 2-3 years puts him there IMO.

I totally agree. It'd be nice if he was tested; perhaps stunned. It's been some time since he has been on the canvas - S. Peter, I believe? I think so too. He was stunned momentarily by Wach, but recovered in no time, so don't really count it. I'd just like to see him in a dog fight. But it was the same with Lennox thoughout his career. We did get it in the end though. I don't think Fury causes Wladimir any problems. Probably not. But more than Povetkin imo. Maybe Pulev? Chisora?

Most people thought Haye was that guy, he wasn't. Some people believe Povetkin is that guy, I don't think so. Maybe if Fury beats Haye? Fury moves quite well and he's certainly not the human punching bag that Wach was. Could be interesting. I don't think Fury causes Wladimir any problems.

He's dominated the division, by never facing the number 2 guy. Klitschko fans are hilarious........ :bottle::bottle::bottle: Here we go again...

I knew you'd probably pick up on that! :biggthump Didn't mean it like that though. But it's like when Lennox lost to Rahman, it was a good thing, because he was beginning to be a bit sloppy etc. Perhaps not losing, but I'd like to see him face some adversity, have a tough fight, something like that. Most people thought Haye was that guy, he wasn't. Some people believe Povetkin is that guy, I don't think so. Maybe if Fury beats Haye? Fury moves quite well and he's certainly not the human punching bag that Wach was. Could be interesting. I totally agree. It'd be nice if he was tested; perhaps stunned. It's been some time since he has been on the canvas - S. Peter, I believe?

Not surprising, that. :lol1: I knew you'd probably pick up on that! :biggthump Didn't mean it like that though. But it's like when Lennox lost to Rahman, it was a good thing, because he was beginning to be a bit sloppy etc. Perhaps not losing, but I'd like to see him face some adversity, have a tough fight, something like that. Most people thought Haye was that guy, he wasn't. Some people believe Povetkin is that guy, I don't think so. Maybe if Fury beats Haye? Fury moves quite well and he's certainly not the human punching bag that Wach was. Could be interesting.

He's dominated the division, by never facing the number 2 guy. Klitschko fans are hilarious........

I agree. I mean, it takes a lot to be in the top 5 of a sports that's been running for 130 years. A lot of people will be pointing to the fact that Wlad usually has 20 pounds and 2-3 inches on everyone he faces. Which other great can you say that about? Lennox Lewis? And sheer dominance is not enough in my book, because the guys he's fighting aren't that good. they are the best available, but there's no headmovement, no footwork, no variety and their defense is their face. People think they can land one punch and knock him out, but it doesn't work that way. I think it's a stretch to put him in top 10 as it is now, I don't know what will happen in the future though. I'd like to see him lose and see how he comes back from that. That shows a true champion in my opinion. I know he came back from his previous defeats, but he only rematched one guy. Bit disappointed with that. Not surprising, that. :lol1:

Anyone who ranks Wladimir as a top 5 HW is an idiot. He may get there, but, as it stands, he's not even close. Top 10 is more realistic, and to some that's generous. It depends on what you like from fighters. Personally, I rank Wlad pretty high based on his style and possible H2H match-ups. His resume will never get close to some of the greats; but that's not his fault. I agree. I mean, it takes a lot to be in the top 5 of a sports that's been running for 130 years. A lot of people will be pointing to the fact that Wlad usually has 20 pounds and 2-3 inches on everyone he faces. Which other great can you say that about? Lennox Lewis? And sheer dominance is not enough in my book, because the guys he's fighting aren't that good. they are the best available, but there's no headmovement, no footwork, no variety and their defense is their face. People think they can land one punch and knock him out, but it doesn't work that way. I think it's a stretch to put him in top 10 as it is now, I don't know what will happen in the future though. I'd like to see him lose and see how he comes back from that. That shows a true champion in my opinion. I know he came back from his previous defeats, but he only rematched one guy. Bit disappointed with that.

Wasn't because of his statement but because of trolling. Quite a few people have Wlad in their top 5. I don't agree, but that's a matter of opinion. If you can back it up, fine. But he's trolling just to get an argument going. I hate that. Anyone who ranks Wladimir as a top 5 HW is an idiot. He may get there, but, as it stands, he's not even close. Top 10 is more realistic, and to some that's generous. It depends on what you like from fighters. Personally, I rank Wlad pretty high based on his style and possible H2H match-ups. His resume will never get close to some of the greats; but that's not his fault.

That's not the reason to put someone on ignore list. Everybody is entitled to own opinion. Although I don't rank Wlad in top5 yet, he is closer of being top5 than not being in top10 IMO. Wasn't because of his statement but because of trolling. Quite a few people have Wlad in their top 5. I don't agree, but that's a matter of opinion. If you can back it up, fine. But he's trolling just to get an argument going. I hate that.

even if you exclude the crap opponents he has fought, then wlad has made almost half a dozen ok defences now. Adding Povetkin will complete that decent six. That matches greats like Jack Dempsey, for instance, even if its way below Holmes et al. Hes taken a scenic route for sure, but hes going to be getting a foot on the ladder of ATG status at last for sure with Pov. Same with Holmes, one can happily disclude his Frazier Jnr, Frank and Rodriguez, even Coetzee IMHO - its clear that Larry really only made 15 or 16 proper defences. Obviously its clear that Wlad will never surpass Holmes, but he can still get a foot on the ladder to being an ATG.

I agree hes top 10,,closer to 9 or 10 though. he can still move up a few notches but I dont think he can ever crack the top 5. hes starting to run out of time If he beats Povetkin, Pulev then beats next champion (eg Tyson) and goes 2,3 years without losing I would have him in top5 no doubt. He won't have time to fight joshua who might be next dominant champion but beating majority of the future belt holders in his late 30s would be quite impressive. I believe Haye will be title holder if he doesn't retire, possibly Povetkin. Tyson is quite young so he might even be a next dominant one.. Wilder might be in mix too. Plus Wlad dominated the division for a long time now beating some very good fighters.

That's not the reason to put someone on ignore list. Everybody is entitled to own opinion. Although I don't rank Wlad in top5 yet, he is closer of being top5 than not being in top10 IMO. I agree hes top 10,,closer to 9 or 10 though. he can still move up a few notches but I dont think he can ever crack the top 5. hes starting to run out of time