Did Floyd duck Pacquiao?

by the way, polls are stupid because EVERYONE has bias, even if they try not to. manny is the wannabe good guy and Floyd is the guy everyone wants to see lose... so it's already flawed from the start. Polls don't lie. It's only flawed if you're a flawed character. The question is yes/no and is objective in it's nature.

You're a moron. Floyd's max weight on a scale is like 151. That's at LMW and you think he would have weighed over 147 for a fight at 147? He struggles to get over 150. 147 is a perfect weight for him and you think he would want to weigh more? That's idiotic. He may not have had any evidence but he is well within his rights to ask for additional testing if he wants. This is a sport that is not governed by a single organization and if he wants to ask for something extra then thats his choice. What I am saying is Manny did it to Floyd and Floyd has the right to do it to Manny. Floyd agreed to Mannys stipulation and Manny did not agree to Floyds on the first negotiation. Thats all I am saying. Whether or not you think Floyd or Manny is suspect to cheating is irrelevant. Floyd has agreed to 1 fight night weighin since 2007. Why should we take his word for it, why not take JMM and Nacho's? They said Floyd was 20lbs heavier. If these upstanding, straight shooters are prone to exaggeration over weight matters, how can we take the notoriously unreliable Floyd at his word, esp as he refuses to weigh in almost every time?

by the way, polls are stupid because EVERYONE has bias, even if they try not to. manny is the wannabe good guy and Floyd is the guy everyone wants to see lose... so it's already flawed from the start. What a crock of shit. The poll simply prove that 3 out of 4 people think floyd is a ducker, bias really isnt a big factor...its a bigger factor for the 25% that voted yes, because this is a mostly american site. Flojob's are funny.

by the way, polls are stupid because EVERYONE has bias, even if they try not to. manny is the wannabe good guy and Floyd is the guy everyone wants to see lose... so it's already flawed from the start.

The point is to showcase once again that the vast majority of people following boxing believe Mayweather is a ducker. He was afraid of losing his 0 against Pacquiao, and he ducked several other top fighters while they were in their absolute prime. Floyd has made a career of maximizing his success and profit while minimizing risk. so has manny... what's your point? There has been a whole slew of excuses from BOTH sides... Floyd said he wanted the fight, manny ducked the tests... and manny has STILL not taken any better tests than the NSAC's. Floyd said again he wanted the fight, arum said he wanted to build a stadium. manny said he was afraid of needles, roach and arum said, they will not agree to Floyd dictating to them about testing even though it was Floyd who agreed to ALL terms including a 10 mil per lb over the weight limit. Floyd has come up with his excuses too. The real truth here is that both have avoided the fight, but not over fear... over control. Groupies on BOTH sides need to get over it and stop bringing it up because you know what? At the end of the day, Floyd can duck anyone he wants to because he makes 20-40 million per fight... he doesn't care one bit what any of you or me here thinks... he's getting paid ... period.

The sight of Floyd pounding his chest...naw, naw, naw, I'm not getting in the ring with that thing. I ain't no dummy, my health come first. No money is worth it if I'm crippled for life :lol1:.

Floyd himself has said on numerous occasions that belts don't mean anything to him. You think that him losing his title and having to pay a commission fine was going to stop him from making sure he had the size advantage? You think the commission was going to cancel a fight this big over a few pounds? If that wasn't in there he would have done the same thing he did against JMM. We have a factual example of him doing so. And as much as Floyd believes it, there was no basis for Manny being on roids. Floyd just didn't believe Manny could be beating all these bigger guys and was shook. And its not like nobody has ever beaten an Olympic style test (see Lance Armstong). I have said it before, until Floyd is tested year round he is suspect just as much as Pacquiao... ~Oh and btw you saying "if that wasn't in there he would have done the same thing" is a moot point. The stipulation was in there and Floyd agreed so its moot.

You're a moron. Floyd's max weight on a scale is like 151. That's at LMW and you think he would have weighed over 147 for a fight at 147? He struggles to get over 150. 147 is a perfect weight for him and you think he would want to weigh more? That's idiotic. He may not have had any evidence but he is well within his rights to ask for additional testing if he wants. This is a sport that is not governed by a single organization and if he wants to ask for something extra then thats his choice. What I am saying is Manny did it to Floyd and Floyd has the right to do it to Manny. Floyd agreed to Mannys stipulation and Manny did not agree to Floyds on the first negotiation. Thats all I am saying. Whether or not you think Floyd or Manny is suspect to cheating is irrelevant.

Floyd vs JMM was a catchweight by contract but sanctioning rules of a 147 limit still applied so Floyd had the ability to Pay off JMM. Pac vs Floyd on the other hand was 147, if Floyd came in overweight... there would be no fight, the titles would not be on the line etc. Floyd has never come in over the sanctioning bodies weight limit and he certainly would not have risked doing so for this fight but Manny and his team suspected he might so they asked for a contract stipulation with weight. Manny did not fail a drugs test but Floyd suspected that Manny was taking a substance that was not being detected by standard testing and asked for a contract stipulation for both fighters to undergo additional tests, Manny refused. That's the bottom line of the first negotiations. You can't defend somebody refusing extra testing. Floyd himself has said on numerous occasions that belts don't mean anything to him. You think that him losing his title and having to pay a commission fine was going to stop him from making sure he had the size advantage? You think the commission was going to cancel a fight this big over a few pounds? If that wasn't in there he would have done the same thing he did against JMM. We have a factual example of him doing so. And as much as Floyd believes it, there was no basis for Manny being on roids. Floyd just didn't believe Manny could be beating all these bigger guys and was shook. And its not like nobody has ever beaten an Olympic style test (see Lance Armstong). I have said it before, until Floyd is tested year round he is suspect just as much as Pacquiao...

He asked for it because Floyd was coming off a fight in which he deliberately ignored the contract weight and paid JMM off to make sure he had an advantage. What would stop him from doing it to Pac if he did it to JMM, a fighter he already had plenty of advantages against? That's why the $10 million dollar penalty was there (and agreed to by Floyd/Golden Boy) To my knowledge Pac had never failed a drug test in his career so coming at him with extra testing was not called for at the time, despite what uneducated crackheads like Roger and Floyd Sr. believe in their heart. Floyd vs JMM was a catchweight by contract but sanctioning rules of a 147 limit still applied so Floyd had the ability to Pay off JMM. Pac vs Floyd on the other hand was 147, if Floyd came in overweight... there would be no fight, the titles would not be on the line etc. Floyd has never come in over the sanctioning bodies weight limit and he certainly would not have risked doing so for this fight but Manny and his team suspected he might so they asked for a contract stipulation with weight. Manny did not fail a drugs test but Floyd suspected that Manny was taking a substance that was not being detected by standard testing and asked for a contract stipulation for both fighters to undergo additional tests, Manny refused. That's the bottom line of the first negotiations. You can't defend somebody refusing extra testing.

Discussion getting a bit crabbed. I'm sure the're many details and obstacles, I'm not saying Arum is a saint or anything. What for you would be the main reason for the fight not happening? I don't know is the answer to that. I have no idea what all of the reasons have been but what I do know is Manny initially refused testing and then refused $40mil. These are 2 occasions that the fight did not happen so you can use those reasons for two occasions. On another occasion Floyd was asking for $100mil and this was turned down so that's another reason. Another reason is perhaps Bob and Floyd not getting along. Another is Bob consistently talking about building outdoor stadiums and getting in outside investors without running anything like that by Floyd and his team. Now this part is just my opinion but IMO with the negotiations, at least we knew what Floyd wanted, he wanted to fight in the MGM (he even booked a date for it), he wanted at least 100mil and he wanted blood testing. Manny and his team were always changing their position. First no testing, then testing, first in the MGM then Dallas, then outdoors, then they want investors then the dates not right and they gotta pick another date etc etc. They over complicated it IMO.

Floyd has a history of ducking, but with Pac it went into overdrive and became laughable in the end. History will see Floyd avoiding Pac like the plaque, and JMM wanting Pac like a drug habit needing satisfied. Many people call Floyd out, there are many fighters people want Floyd to fight, but he dont. And Floyd will be blamed for everything.

Yes and too bad for everybody missed seeing to date the biggest fight to be made...

I hadn't actually seen his points until just now. So I will counter some of them. His first point is just plain wrong and totally opinion based. My 1st point in my original post was fact. The combined records of Mannys opposition during the period that we are discussing is 1-3-1. His second point is downright ludicrous. Manny was not "top dog" for starters, he was always second to Floyd in sales figures. Also he may not have asked for testing before but Manny had never asked for $10mil every pound etc. He then brings culture into it???? Manny was fighting in the USA under a USA promo company etc etc, that point he makes is just plain idiotic, culture has nothing to do with anything. His third point is correct for some part, and goes with what I was saying, that Manny took Floyd and his team to court which caused a rift making negotiating an impossibility. His fourth point again is plain wrong, he says he offered manny 40mil and manny said no 50mil? No that is wrong, Manny has gone on record saying he asked for 50/50. His fifth point confirms what I was saying in the first place, Manny and his team did not want the Floyd fight. He says "There was no point in wasting time trying to get a Mayweather fight". That just confirms he and you think Manny and his team were not trying to get the fight to happen at that point in time, which is evident. His sixth point is just a lot of waffle regarding his opinions about Floyds financial state and court costs etc, it has nothing to do with Floyd or Manny wanting to fight, it is not worth a credible response. He asked for it because Floyd was coming off a fight in which he deliberately ignored the contract weight and paid JMM off to make sure he had an advantage. What would stop him from doing it to Pac if he did it to JMM, a fighter he already had plenty of advantages against? That's why the $10 million dollar penalty was there (and agreed to by Floyd/Golden Boy) To my knowledge Pac had never failed a drug test in his career so coming at him with extra testing was not called for at the time, despite what uneducated crackheads like Roger and Floyd Sr. believe in their heart.

I hadn't actually seen his points until just now. So I will counter some of them. His first point is just plain wrong and totally opinion based. My 1st point in my original post was fact. The combined records of Mannys opposition during the period that we are discussing is 1-3-1. His second point is downright ludicrous. Manny was not "top dog" for starters, he was always second to Floyd in sales figures. Also he may not have asked for testing before but Manny had never asked for $10mil every pound etc. He then brings culture into it???? Manny was fighting in the USA under a USA promo company etc etc, that point he makes is just plain idiotic, culture has nothing to do with anything. His third point is correct for some part, and goes with what I was saying, that Manny took Floyd and his team to court which caused a rift making negotiating an impossibility. His fourth point again is plain wrong, he says he offered manny 40mil and manny said no 50mil? No that is wrong, Manny has gone on record saying he asked for 50/50. His fifth point confirms what I was saying in the first place, Manny and his team did not want the Floyd fight. He says "There was no point in wasting time trying to get a Mayweather fight". That just confirms he and you think Manny and his team were not trying to get the fight to happen at that point in time, which is evident. His sixth point is just a lot of waffle regarding his opinions about Floyds financial state and court costs etc, it has nothing to do with Floyd or Manny wanting to fight, it is not worth a credible response. Discussion getting a bit crabbed. I'm sure the're many details and obstacles, I'm not saying Arum is a saint or anything. What for you would be the main reason for the fight not happening?

Why? Because the first round of negotiations PROVE that Arum and Pacroid wanted n o t h i n g to do with Floyd. If Pacroid was clean and so eager to fight then why walk from your biggest payday over a 14 day drug testing cutoff? Here are the FACTS: In the first round of negotiations, Floyd agrees to ALL of Pacquiao's demands but Pacroid walks away from his biggest payday over OSDT. Care to explain WHY? you are only looking at the first round of negotiations. what about the other rounds that expose floyd as a liar? those mean a lot more and tell the whole story of who actually wanted the fight. floyd walked away from the fight after all his demands were agreed to. imagine if floyd agreed to pac's weight penalty then pac said sorry i won't fight you. this is exactly what happened in reverse. floyd just didn't want the fight. it took awhile for pac to expose him but the truth came out.

I don't buy what you brought to the table, and edgarg already countered them brilliantly during the first pages. I hadn't actually seen his points until just now. So I will counter some of them. His first point is just plain wrong and totally opinion based. My 1st point in my original post was fact. The combined records of Mannys opposition during the period that we are discussing is 1-3-1. His second point is downright ludicrous. Manny was not "top dog" for starters, he was always second to Floyd in sales figures. Also he may not have asked for testing before but Manny had never asked for $10mil every pound etc. He then brings culture into it???? Manny was fighting in the USA under a USA promo company etc etc, that point he makes is just plain idiotic, culture has nothing to do with anything. His third point is correct for some part, and goes with what I was saying, that Manny took Floyd and his team to court which caused a rift making negotiating an impossibility. His fourth point again is plain wrong, he says he offered manny 40mil and manny said no 50mil? No that is wrong, Manny has gone on record saying he asked for 50/50. His fifth point confirms what I was saying in the first place, Manny and his team did not want the Floyd fight. He says "There was no point in wasting time trying to get a Mayweather fight". That just confirms he and you think Manny and his team were not trying to get the fight to happen at that point in time, which is evident. His sixth point is just a lot of waffle regarding his opinions about Floyds financial state and court costs etc, it has nothing to do with Floyd or Manny wanting to fight, it is not worth a credible response.

The fact is the Pacquiao hype has calmed the **** down And yet this poll is still a 75% lopsided poll we all know Floyd didn't want none of Pacquiao You can defend Floyd all you want - But need to realise floyd is a coward when it comes to the top dogs

but floyd said in interview after interview all manny has to do is take the test and we got a fight. manny said ok and then floyd changed his demands and wanted to give manny 0 percent of the ppv. floyd didn't say in the interviews take the test, oh and if you do i'm going to give you 0 percent of the ppv. floyd caught lying for the billionth time. hey at least this time he didn't say manny lives too far away to fight. Ok that post was for someone else to respond to but I'll respond anyway. Okay so the first negotiation failed because Manny said no to drug testing. That is a FACT. That is why the first negotiations fell apart. Everything that happened after that is a separate deal we are talking months and years after the initial offers were made. Floyd actively sought out Manny and phoned him personally and made him an offer, instead of talking to Floyd, Manny gave the phone to Koncz. Now people can scoff at the $40mil offer all they want and say it's a joke and that's fine, that is their opinions but the fact is an offer was made by Floyd again and refused again. Both times Manny has refused the offers, not Floyd. Now I could talk about how the $40mil + gate sales + sponsors etc etc is not a bad offer but a) I cba b) It's a complicated matter that takes into account 2 business models that neither I or you are qualified to discuss at length c) Anything we state about the $40mil offer is just speculative opinion, not fact.

Well you have not provided any arguments for or against anything that I have brought to the table and have not even discussed the 'facts' with you so......? And again with people saying "if Floyd wanted it, it would have been made." That exact statement can be made against Manny too... that is not a fact, that is just an opinion based assumption. You cant just make statements like that as fact. I don't buy what you brought to the table, and edgarg already countered them brilliantly during the first pages.