Martinez vs Murray?

IronDanHamza, which seven rounds did Sturm win that were absolutely clearly for him that would be crazy to think otherwise?

No, he shouldn't. I'm sick of seeing people saying this. Sturm clearly won the fight. Yes, Murray did better than everyone expecting but he was very lucky to get a draw. All media, even British Media, outside of people associated with Hatton Promotions had Sturm winning the fight, because, he did. Well we're gonna have to agree to disagree, I had Murray winning. I'm not saying he got robbed because it was a close fight. Now if you're saying it wasn't even close then I think you might want to rewatch the fight...

What are you talking about? That's not what I'm saying. I just used that fight as an example. Rhodes got the ranking by fighting eliminator after eliminator, this isn't an uncommon occurence. I'm just telling where he was ranked (By The Ring). Bare in mind, at that time te 154 lb division wasn't strong like it is now. It was one of the weaker divisions in the sport. I don't think even then Rhodes has a Top 5 calibur resume at the weight again I'm just stating where he was ranked. The fact Rhodes is Canelo's best wins tells you all you need to know about his level of opposition. It's funny how you tracked back, so now Rhodes wasn't a TOP 5 JMW? You never even mentioned the RING before.

Unbelievable! LOL, you're a joke! Beating Jamie Moore makes you a top 5 JMW! Who cares about WBC mandatories? Saul Alvarez won his title over Matthew Hatton and Lara is set to fight some unknown bum in yet another mandatory. Please give me a list of at least 4-5 fights that made this guy a top 5 JMW. What are you talking about? That's not what I'm saying. I just used that fight as an example. Rhodes got the ranking by fighting eliminator after eliminator, this isn't an uncommon occurence. I'm just telling where he was ranked (By The Ring). Bare in mind, at that time te 154 lb division wasn't strong like it is now. It was one of the weaker divisions in the sport. I don't think even then Rhodes has a Top 5 calibur resume at the weight again I'm just stating where he was ranked. The fact Rhodes is Canelo's best wins tells you all you need to know about his level of opposition.

He got his title shot by fighting Mandatory after mandatory. He beat the guy who put Macklin, who is apparently a P4P par fighter, flat on his face. As an underdog. Perhaps you should wathc fights instead of skimming through records and looking at Boxrec rankings. Unbelievable! LOL, you're a joke! Beating Jamie Moore makes you a top 5 JMW! Who cares about WBC mandatories? Saul Alvarez won his title over Matthew Hatton and Lara is set to fight some unknown bum in yet another mandatory. Please give me a list of at least 4-5 fights that made this guy a top 5 JMW.

doesnt matter Mayweather is the bigget name in boxing anybody would fight him sergio is not a big name so guys like geale and quillin arent jumping at a martinez fight. Theres only one guy you have a case for sergio not fighting and thats GGG. I didn't say Martinez ducked anyone.

No, you didn't answer my question.:pat: Tell me what made Ryan Rhodes a top five JMW. Who did he fight, what did he prove? Just skimming through his record, it looks horrible. He got his title shot by fighting Mandatory after mandatory and eliminators. He beat the guy who put Macklin, who is apparently a P4P par fighter, flat on his face. As an underdog. Perhaps you should wathc fights instead of skimming through records and looking at Boxrec rankings.

When has Mayweather fought a random WW? s In recent years outside of Marquez he's fought nothing but guys who were ranked at or near the top of the divison. Murray being at #7 is one of the most undeserving rankings I've ever seen. How he is in the Top 10 is a mystery. This is a joke of a fight and Mayweather would never have a fight as big as a joke as this is. "He's allowed atleast one slightly below P4P par fight" So what was Darren Barker? He wasn't and isn't even a Top 20 level MW let alone P4P. What was Dzinziruk? Tail end of the Top 10 at Jr MW. These aren't "P4P Par" fights. doesnt matter Mayweather is the bigget name in boxing anybody would fight him sergio is not a big name so guys like geale and quillin arent jumping at a martinez fight. Theres only one guy you have a case for sergio not fighting and thats GGG.

Perhaps you shouldn't presume? I didn't mention Boxrec once nor was I referring to Boxrec. I don't use their rankings. Barker wasn't in the Top 20-30 because no one who fights at that level and struggles at European level is. It's really as simple as that. It's understanable he's amongst the Top 20 now but at the time he obviously wasn't. It's not difficult to understand. :thinking: I did answer your question.....You bolded my answer. He beat Ryan Rhodes who was #5 at JMW when he fought him.. No, you didn't answer my question.:pat: Tell me what made Ryan Rhodes a top five JMW. Who did he fight, what did he prove? Just skimming through his record, it looks horrible.

How can guys who are supposedly on Floyd's level (Floyd's ducking Serg!), be allowed to fight guys with no uproar or criticism? Instead of resorting to scraping the bottom at 60, why won't he pick the top at 54 (The same weight he says he'd fight Floyd at)? ATLEAST Robert is top 3 or 4 WW, Murray is like 10.. But it flies under the radar, how and why? and you think any of the 154 pounders will fight sergio?

Your quote insinuates that although he is ranked #12 he wasn't even ranked in the top 30 (presumably by boxrec) before the Martinez fight. You're just backing up now because I called you out and you can't back up your own claims. Perhaps you shouldn't presume? I didn't mention Boxrec once nor was I referring to Boxrec. I don't use their rankings. Barker wasn't in the Top 20-30 because no one who fights at that level and struggles at European level is. It's really as simple as that. It's understanable he's amongst the Top 20 now but at the time he obviously wasn't. It's not difficult to understand. You also didn't answer my question: Now please tell me who is this #5 JMW Canelo beat and what this so called #5 ranked JMW did to be ranked so highly. Again, I'll wait. :thinking: I did answer your question.....You bolded my answer. He beat Ryan Rhodes who was #5 at JMW when he fought him..

Where do I mention Boxrec? I was presuming that was Mathed's personal ranking of Barker. I have never even looked at Boxrec's rankings. They are a joke. Canelo beat Ryan Rhodes who was ranked #5 when he beat him. Your quote insinuates that although he is ranked #12 he wasn't even ranked in the top 30 (presumably by boxrec) before the Martinez fight. You're just backing up now because I called you out and you can't back up your own claims. You also didn't answer my question: Now please tell me who is this #5 JMW (Ryan Rhodes?) Canelo beat and what this so called #5 ranked JMW did to be ranked so highly. Again, I'll wait.

Here's your reference to boxrec: Darren Barker is ranked #12 by boxrec, so it's obvious you were referencing boxrec. :pat: Where do I mention Boxrec? I was presuming that was Mathed's personal ranking of Barker. I have never even looked at Boxrec's rankings. They are a joke. Now please tell me who is this #5 JMW Canelo beat and what this so called #5 ranked JMW did to be ranked so highly. I'll wait. Canelo beat Ryan Rhodes who was ranked #5 when he beat him.

I said nothing about Boxrec at any point. Who takes Boxrec's rankings seriously? Canelo beat a Top 5 ranked JMW so not really. As for Vanes, I'm not sure why he was in the Top 10. Here's your reference to boxrec: And he's 12th now. But when he fought Martinez he wasn't in the Top 20 or possibly even 30. Darren Barker is ranked #12 by boxrec, so it's obvious you were referencing boxrec. :pat: Now please tell me who is this #5 JMW Canelo beat and what this so called #5 ranked JMW did to be ranked so highly. I'll wait.

Then don't claim boxrec didn't have him ranked in the top 20 if you don't know or don't have any proof to back-up your claims. I said nothing about Boxrec at any point. Who takes Boxrec's rankings seriously? Also, given your criteria Canelo and Martyrosyan (and possibly some other ones) shouldn't be top 10 JMWs Canelo beat a Top 5 ranked JMW so not really. As for Vanes, I'm not sure why he was in the Top 10.

Why do you need proof? How can you be in the Top 20 when all but 1 of your fights are at Domestic level and the one that wasn't you struggled in? You can't be. Boxrec's rankings are a joke anyway. And they most likely turned him down because why are they going to fight someone on that level? They were world level why are they going to fight someone 1 or 2 levels below that? Then don't claim boxrec didn't have him ranked in the top 20 if you don't know or don't have any proof to back-up your claims. And he's 12th now. But when he fought Martinez he wasn't in the Top 20 or possibly even 30. Also, given your criteria Canelo and Martyrosyan (and possibly some other ones) shouldn't be top 10 JMWs

So your telling me that boxrec raised his ranking based on a stoppage loss? I thought boxrec was based on a points system. Show me proof that he was not ranked in the top 20 at the time Martinez fought him. Anyhow, prior to the Barker fight Martinez called out both Geale and Quillin and both of them turned him down. Why do you need proof? How can you be in the Top 20 when all but 1 of your fights are at Domestic level and the one that wasn't you struggled in? You can't be. Boxrec's rankings are a joke anyway. And they most likely turned him down because why are they going to fight someone on that level? They were world level why are they going to fight someone 1 or 2 levels below that?

Domenico Spada ("European Level") was not a bad fighter, his fights with Zbik in Germany were both close and it could be argued that Barker has so far been the only fighter to beat him convincingly. Barker is also a better fighter now than he was back then; he stopped Hope effortlessly, Proksa on the other hand had a much tougher time. Barker didn't beat Spada convincingly. And please don't use Kerry Hope as an example :lol1: He's awful. The fact he is 1-1 with Proska just shows how poor he is also.

He was undefeated when he fought Martinez because he'd had almost 100% of his fights at Domestic level. It's not hard to be undefeated at that level. His only fight above that level was at European level and he struggled badly. In his fight before Martinez. He hasn't lost since because who has he fought? Kerry Hope and he will keep fighting at that level and looking great. That's amazing! And he's 12th now. But when he fought Martinez he wasn't in the Top 20 or possibly even 30. How can a guy who's fought all but 1 of his fights at Domestic level and coming offa lack luster performance at European level be a Top 20 MW? Because he wasn't. It's hilarious to me that that fight is even being defended. So your telling me that boxrec raised his ranking based on a stoppage loss? I thought boxrec was based on a points system. Show me proof that he was not ranked in the top 20 at the time Martinez fought him. Anyhow, prior to the Barker fight Martinez called out both Geale and Quillin and both of them turned him down.

Wow, you'd think if he could run through those he wouldn't struggle at European level, wouldn't you? Domenico Spada ("European Level") was not a bad fighter, his fights with Zbik in Germany were both close and it could be argued that Barker has so far been the only fighter to beat him convincingly. Barker is also a better fighter now than he was back then; he stopped Hope effortlessly, Proksa on the other hand had a much tougher time.