Why all the hate for Cotto?

being a Champion is about being recognized as 'the man'. being a 'champion' is about being one of a group of three or four men. I like Juan Manuel Marquez....but Cotto has a better resume... you make no sense... you consider JMM an elite fighter of the 140's - 154's, based off what? being competitive with MP? ... He never fought at 154.... fought 2 people at welterweight... and never beat any of the true challenges at 140 at the time (Bradley, Peterson, Khan, Alexander, Morales, Maidana, Judah, I could continue)... he hasnt faced the opposition Cotto has in his career ... other than his bouts with Pacquiao (i thought he won at least 3/4) and Mayweather (he was far less competitive than Cotto)... he never fought another top 147 pounder.... Just because he beat Pacquiao doesnt mean he can beat another top 140 or 147 fighter... thats just silly, you saying that JMM was and elite fighter at these weights and Cotto wasnt... i dont think i can respond to you anymore... this is a clear UD for me... BTW how did I know that when i asked you to name elite fighters... that you would come out with those exact 3 names... you are just like most people on these forums.... YOU "dont know **** about boxing"- Roger Mayweather and if you consider floyd elite, im sure you respect his opinion... Floyd to Cotto "that was a hell of a fight, yous a hell of a fighter... your a legend" Lace up some gloves before you attempt to bash the career of an obviously great fighter Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

doesnt mean he was prime. Neither was all the 86 year old bums Canelo fought yet you still praise him despite. Without a doubt a quintessential DOUBLE STANDARD!!!!!

Quote: Originally Posted by thatdudespits your stupidity holds no bounds. A paper champion?... you continue to discredit yourself... you are the fellow who said Quintana was equivalent to Vargas. you should probably cool it with the "stupidity" remarks. did i or did i not say that, in this day and age of multiple alphabet titlists, i consider the majority of modern belt-holders to be paper champions? many of today's champions would just be contenders of varying quality if we had one Championship per division. i did say that i give credit to Cotto for two solid runs defending paper titles at 140 and 147. he has some creditable wins on his CV from those periods. but he never cleared a division of his best rivals. that is what is required to prove yourself a Champion (as opposed to a 'champion') in these times. many men can hold belts. Gavin Rees held a belt. before him, Souleymane M'baye held a belt. was Cotto better than the average belt-holder? sure. did he ever establish himself as the king of a division beyond reasonable doubt? no. he was getting there at '47, but ran into the guy who had been perceived as the real threat to the division for some time. if not by clearing out a division, Cotto could have proven undeniable Championship caliber had he established himself as an elite fighter by showing that he could live with a proven elite fighter. unfortunately, Cotto couldn't even live with Margarito. Pacquiao completely blew him away. has he been an elite draw? yes, the biggest outside of Pacquiao and Mayweather. is there more to being an elite fighter than how many PPV's you sell and how many times you can sell out MSG? absolutely. Gatti sold out Boardwalk Hall an unprecedented number of times for a boxer. Quote: Originally Posted by thatdudespits who of cotto's generation is elite to you? define "Cotto's generation". his career has bridged generations. give me a specific timeframe. I will make it very specific.... 04' - 12' ...140lb-154lb BTW clearing out a division is not all on the fighter... lineal champions are rare because everything has to be perfect to make something like that happen (promotional disputes, ducking, etc.) ... Zab Judah was once the undisputed welterweight champion... is he elite and Cotto not? you have to use your brain when analyzing things... Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

Cotto ducked Sergio Martinez. Martinez even called him out in the show golpe/golpe. But, please do not make me write an essay about it. i know exactly what u speak of.... Cotto said there was no money in a bout with sergio....long before sergio had his first PPV after sergio beat chavez Cotto said he was open to facing sergio for his middleweight crown... i guess this is a duck in the same way floyd ducks martinez....Martinez is all talk...calls people out and schedules a fight the next day to take himself out of contention... Martinez is quite content to rematch chavez after Murray taking himself out of the running for any fight....like Martinez faced a top middleweight after a mentally weakend Pavlik...like he will ever face a top middleweight again if Cotto or Mayweather were middleweights and not fighting sergio....then u could call it ducking... and sergo moving down to 154? at the end of the day its PRIZEFIGHTING.... why fight Martinez when you can fight Canelo for 3 or 4 times the money? Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

Cotto ducked Sergio Martinez. Martinez even called him out in the show golpe/golpe. But, please do not make me write an essay about it.

Quote: Originally Posted by thatdudespits so ur saying Cotto was not an ACTUAL champion? its really more important who he defended his titles against... and we all know Cotto never ducked anyone. Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android You know what I was saying. No one has won more vacant belts than Cotto in recent times. I may be wrong but I would love to know who has more if that isn't the case. The Cotto never ducked anyone is one of the biggest myths in boxing. It's not hate, it's people like you that think dude is beyond the stars and make him out to be something he's not. by the way... what am I making him out to be? I've stated facts. and my opinion is Cotto is an elite fighter... one of the best of his generation... I've made no other assertions... I haven't said he is an all time great... I haven't said he can beat this fighter or that fighter... I simply believe the guy is a great fighter with a great resume from top to bottom... hes never been in a bad fight.... never put out a less than stellar performance.... always comes to win... hes a blood guts and glory type of fighter... anyone that loves the sport of boxing should respect him... i think he is a HOFer for sure... please let me know if i have said something that is untrue. you know the 80's had their fantastic 4.... Leonard, Hearns, Haggler, and duran... I believe we have witnessed another with Mayweather, Pacquiao, Cotto, and Marquez I'll leave it at that. Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

Quote: Originally Posted by thatdudespits so ur saying Cotto was not an ACTUAL champion? its really more important who he defended his titles against... and we all know Cotto never ducked anyone. Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android You know what I was saying. No one has won more vacant belts than Cotto in recent times. I may be wrong but I would love to know who has more if that isn't the case. The Cotto never ducked anyone is one of the biggest myths in boxing. It's not hate, it's people like you that think dude is beyond the stars and make him out to be something he's not. if you say something back it up with facts like i do... who did cotto duck... debunk the myth for me... who did he duck and when? Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

Quote: Originally Posted by thatdudespits your stupidity holds no bounds. A paper champion?... you continue to discredit yourself... Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android Compare his vacant belt fights to a guy that was an actual champion. Go!! so ur saying Cotto was not an ACTUAL champion? its really more important who he defended his titles against... and we all know Cotto never ducked anyone. Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

Cotto himself was only ever a paper champion, btw. he only ever won titles against paper champion type fighters (Pinto, Quintana, Jennings, Foreman), never established himself as the ruler of a division and never established himself as a truly elite fighter (when the acid test came, he failed, losing badly to a truly elite fighter a year or so after being beaten down by a fighter who was considered less than elite) - and, no, winning a close one with a faded Mosley does not make you elite. edit: i do give credit to Cotto for two solid runs defending paper titles at 140 and 147. he has some creditable defences on his CV from those periods. but he never cleared those divisions or established himself at the top of the heap. your stupidity holds no bounds. A paper champion?... you continue to discredit yourself... Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

Cotto himself was only ever a paper champion, btw. he only ever won titles against paper champion type fighters (Pinto, Quintana, Jennings, Foreman), never established himself as the ruler of a division and never established himself as a truly elite fighter (when the acid test came, he failed, losing badly to a truly elite fighter a year or so after being beaten down by a fighter who was considered less than elite) - and, no, winning a close one with a faded Mosley does not make you elite. edit: i do give credit to Cotto for two solid runs defending paper titles at 140 and 147. he has some creditable defences on his CV from those periods. but he never cleared those divisions or established himself at the top of the heap. who of cotto's generation is elite to you? Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

At one point it seemed like they were putting up a belt every time Cotto fought. I wouldn't try and hang my hat on his "championships." The guy is a great fighter but this Trout type stuff would have come to him much much sooner in his career had it not been for Bobby Arum and Brucey Trampler. Top Rank matched Cotto pretty tough throughout his career... vacant titles Cotto vs Quintana (two young undefeated fighters with tremendous upsides... it was a pick em fight to most) Cotto vs Pinto (two young undefeated fighters... huge upside... Pinto was initially supposed to face Hatton) those vacant titles are far greater than beating some paper champion... the only one you can **** on is jennings... and even still the guy had only been beaten once... Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

I like Cotto, he has been one of the most exciting fighters of the '00 era. The fact that he can sell PPVs speaks for itself. He's one hell of a fighter, at this point though, I just feel he's beyond his peak weight. There's plenty of fights for him at 147, but I don't know if he wants to put in the work to get back down to 147. I think he's contented with what he has accomplished. But hate, I don't think so. He's borderline elite IMO.

Hate? Cotto is probably one of the most well liked active fighters you must not have read this thread then Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

Hate? Cotto is probably one of the most well liked active fighters

At one point it seemed like they were putting up a belt every time Cotto fought. I wouldn't try and hang my hat on his "championships." The guy is a great fighter but this Trout type stuff would have come to him much much sooner in his career had it not been for Bobby Arum and Brucey Trampler.

Quote: Originally Posted by thatdudespits "the truth is the truth, the sky is too big for me to cover it" - Angel Garcia you can't handle the truth. you and the rest of the Cotto diehards. Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

The man is a 4 time 3 division world champion... He carries himself like a gentleman... Why so much hate? We have ridiculous posters on here saying that Sergio Martinez has accomplished more in his career than Miguel Cotto... Lets debunk this myth right now Sergio Martinez (50-2-2 28KOs) Record in title fights- 6-0 4KOs World Champions faced- 6 Turned Pro in 97' Miguel Angel Cotto (37-4-0 30KOs) Record in title fights- 17-4 14KOs World champions faced- 17 Turned Pro in 01' Truth is Martinez hasnt accomplished a fourth of what Cotto has in his career Let's take it a step further .... how about Marquez? Juan Manuel Marquez (54-6-1 39KOs) Record in title fights 10-4-1 4KOs World champions faced- 14 how does he stack up against Mayweather and Pacquiao? Quite well actually... Manny Pacquiao (54-4-2 38KOs) Record in title fights- 16-2-2 11KOs World champs faced - 17 Floyd Mayweather (43-0 26KOs) record in title fights- 19-0 9 KOs World champs faced- 17 surely Cottos best is behind him, but.... for those who say Cotto was never elite.... well then what was he? Green K and a a 3B+ donation for laying down some facts.

"the truth is the truth, the sky is too big for me to cover it" - Angel Garcia Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

Quote: Originally Posted by thatdudespits you still fail to explain what makes vargas so great... i've told you time and again why Vargas >>>>> Quintana, you just fail to compute it. the. level. of. the. guys. he. beat. and. competed. with. Vargas was competitive with prime Trinidad and DLH, plus he beat Quartey and Wright. Quintana took Julio's '0' and outpointed a pre-peak Williams before being destroyed quickly in the rematch. against Cotto, Quintana had been steamrolled and had quit in 5 rounds. Cotto went on to fall badly short against elite opposition and struggle with sub-elite opposition. we're talking about whole different leagues here. Cotto, Quintana, Julio, Williams are not on a level with Vargas, Quartey, Wright, DLH, Tito. there is no sane argument for Quintana being equivalent to Vargas. none. http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=584998 Quote: Originally Posted by thatdudespits last i remember paul williams holds a win over winky wright.... as well as wins over sergio martinez, antonio margarito....and quintana losing the second time around doesnt change the fact that quintana won handily the first fight.... Peter Quillin holds a win over Winky, too. you see what i'm saying? does it need to be spelled out? Williams' win over Martinez was rather contested, which i wouldn't count against him so much had he not been blown away in the rematch. his win over Antonio Margarito is a very solid win. Williams wasn't at the peak of his development when Quintana fought him, there were still signs of greenness in him, he started sitting down on his shots more after that fight (which we saw when he KO'd Quintana early) - that said, it's a solid win for Quintana, but it's not on a par with a win over prime Wright, sorry. and, while Quintana losing second time around in the manner he did doesn't erase his victory in the first fight, it does counteract it to a degree and does impact how one assesses Quintana as a fighter and therefore how much esteem Cotto should receive for beating him. was Vargas ever destroyed in a round by a non-elite fighter? Julio is nothing like as good a win as Quartey, not even remotely. why, oh why, would you even go there? Quote: Originally Posted by thatdudespits BTW julio was a huge undefeated prospect at the time... so it was a really big win. undefeated means nothing. even worse that he was an 'undefeated prospect', which translates to 'completely unproven fighter'. Julio had done nothing significant and went on to do nothing significant, relatively speaking. beating him does not constitute "really big" at all. you're seriously putting Julio on a level with Quartey? Quote: Originally Posted by thatdudespits keep trying to make vargas sound great it seems to me that you're the guy who is trying to argue greatness for a fighter who hasn't achieved greatness (Cotto). worse than that, you're trying to make a win over Joel Julio sound great. claiming that a win over Julio is as good as a win over Quartey = For the record... Ike's biggest win is a loss to DLH... his other big win...not so big over Espana, a guy who beat Meldrick Taylor post chavez... i think Quartey was a very good fighter... but not great. you cant compare williams beating wright... to quillen beating a 3 years inactive wright... thats just silly. Vargas was an alright fighter who had an extra helping of heart and a big mouth that got him some big fights. People seem to forget that most were picking Quintana to beat Cotto... especially in Puerto Rico... Quintana was a slick slippery southpaw with power. Vargas is right there if you want to hit him. and what is polling supposed to do? its almost impossible for a current fighter to get a fair shake against a legend of the past... Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

Whats not to like? In the ring he fights with class, style and heart. He always puts on a show and is highly entertaining, a throwback who faced the best of his generation in some of the biggest fights. Outside the ring perhaps he's not everybody's cup of tea but i like him, he is a class act who respects his opponents and dont talk sh*t. He seems quite a reserved private guy, a family man.