Devon Alexander is massively underrated

Kotelnik better than Alexander? As if! Not only Alexander beat Kotelnik directly but also schooled maidana wheere as Kotelnik struggled to get a split decision to the same guy Alexander schooled! Face it theyre in different leagues. Alexander beats bradley if you take out the overtraining issue. You either need glasses or were blind drunk when you watched that fight.......IF you watched that fight.

WHAT? What a shock, who would of thought the #3 dick riding floyd stan on this site thinks Floyds latest cherry pick is massively underrated.... Shocking alright. Some great points made about Lederman. He seems like a nice guy but the extent to which he misinterprets fights is astonishing at times. Maybe it is an eyesight thing.

Kotelnik better than Alexander? As if! Not only Alexander beat Kotelnik directly but also schooled maidana wheere as Kotelnik struggled to get a split decision to the same guy Alexander schooled! Face it theyre in different leagues. Alexander beats bradley if you take out the overtraining issue.

I can't see anyway you can score the Kotelnik fight for Alexander. Kotelnik clearly won.

Quote: Originally Posted by turkas Perhaps you should dust off a copy and re watch the fight, it's still fresh in my mind seeing I just watched it yesterday. despite the clarity of my recollections of the fight, i took your advice. it was actually a little worse for Devon than i recalled. my card: Round 1: 10-9 Kotelnik Round 2: 10-9 Alexander Round 3: 10-9 Kotelnik Round 4: 10-9 Alexander Round 5: 10-9 Kotelnik Round 6: 10-9 Kotelnik (clearest round so far, Alexander's output slowed relatively and Kotelnik countered him silly in this stanza, even Lederman couldn't miss this) Round 7: 10-9 Kotelnik Round 8: 10-9 Kotelnik Round 9: 10-9 Kotelnik Round 10: 10-9 Kotelnik Round 11: 10-9 Alexander (Devon was very busy in the first half of the round while Kotelnik did little, but normal order was resumed in the second half with Kotelnik landing the more clean, effective stuff and Alexander just replying with volume of mostly blocked or missed shots - however, on the strength of that first minute and one thirty, I did give this round to Devon as a courtesy) Round 12: 10-9 Kotelnik (Devon got tooled up pretty good in this one) 117-111 Kotelnik 10-2 for Alexander in that fight is a travesty, if we're going by the recognized scoring criteria. by that criteria, it should've been wide for Andriy. Lederman even sounded slightly flustered trying to explain his card at the end. some rather choice audio samples from the telecast: "It's amazing how many right jabs he (Alexander) lands. And right hooks as well. He's constantly landing that jab." ^^ a shocking revelation of Lederman's poor eyesight, which we were more recently reminded of when he stated that Tim Bradley did not move his head and Manny Pacquiao was thus incapable of missing him with the straight left hand. yes, let's defer to Lederman, that most distinguished arbiter of clean, effective punching. HBO's pundits seemed happy with Alexander's round 3, presumably dizzy on the 'punches thrown' stat for Devon, but Alexander's trainer (Kevin Cunningham) seemed less impressed. "What is you just sitting in front of him for man? You gotta be slipping and sliding if you gonna be in front of this dude, man. Slide around him." so much for Alexander winning the generalship battle. Devon's own trainer was lamenting how easily Kotelnik was able to cut off and hit him after just 3 rounds (he was singing the same tune for the remainder of the fight). even the HBO callers had to start seeing it after a while, during a round that i had Alexander winning. Kellerman: "Another thing Kotelnik's doing is, just by applying pressure... good left hand landed by Kotelnik..." Papa: "Oh, good uppercut landed by Kotelnik..." Kellerman: "...just by applying pressure with his hands up, he's forcing to Devon to throw punches that hit air or gloves just to keep Kotelnik off him." which is what I said here, Quote: Originally Posted by S. Saddler 1310 Alexander was not the ring-general in that fight. he moved his feet and fists, because that's all he could do against the steady, scientific pressure of Kotelnik, but he didn't move hand or foot to any particular controlling effect. and Devon was often being countered hard between his punches while being primarily outjabbed. Papa: "...you almost get the feeling from his body language that he (Kotelnik) feels in control." Kellerman: "...might not be impressed with Alexander's defence tonight, some big holes." by round 6, they were really noticing it. by round 7, they're trying to rationalize and defend Lederman's awful 5-1 scorecard for him. Papa has it 3-3. Kellerman: "The jab (of Alexander) isn't landing that much." Kellerman: "They're landing well (the punches of Kotelnik), they're very well placed." Papa after round 7, "Alexander threw more, sure, 42 more, but Kotelnik landed more and he used that jab effectively." Kellerman in round 9, "Kotelnik has exposed some serious defensive flaws in Alexander." "Control of this fight was lost several rounds ago, and maybe Alexander never really had control." Papa, after round 9, "You can sense one corner is confident and one is concerned." Kellerman, round 10, "...for all the shots that we saw Alexander almost landing, that Harold pointed out, we just saw Kotelnik landing 3, 4, 5 clean shots on Alexander's head." Kellerman: "Kotelnik is doing more damage." ^^ is Lederman so much more the reliable expert than either Kellerman or Papa? Papa, "...sense of uneasiness from the hometown fans, too." they needn't worry, Bob, St. Lou got this. after the 10th, the fighter with the ninja-turtle physique is looking shell-shocked in the corner. Kellerman notes this in the 11th. Lederman, "Alexander did get hit, but he's winning the rounds because he's the busier guy!" so, basically, Alexander is losing this fight, but, luckily, he's throwing a lot, so we can still say he's winning. ok. Kellerman, 11th round, "There's Kotelnik, in between Alexander's business and occasional clean shots, consistently snapping Alexander's head back." Kellerman, 12th round, "...Alexander's future as an undefeated star is in jeopardy here." don't be silly, Max, we're in the Lou! Alexander was the ring-general? really? Kotelnik schooled this guy in boxing, schooled him. the only thing Andriy couldn't really do was stop Devon in his tracks or buckle him, due to his known lack of punching power. this should not count against him, being that he completely outboxed Alexander. i enjoyed rewatching the fight, though. fine technical exhibition by Andriy. thanks. props on the write up, very well done. like i agreed to an argument for Devon losing. coud be made. I disagree, but we already knew that. Can't give a rd by rd take at the moment, but I will get you my response soon. Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

btw, if someone were to be astute in trying to defend Devon, they would at least mention his work to the body against Kotelnik. that is one area where you could boost his case a little. why would me stating he landed a lot of his punches not include his body work? Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

WHAT? What a shock, who would of thought the #3 dick riding floyd stan on this site thinks Floyds latest cherry pick is massively underrated.... Hey stan been awhile. And if you read the floyd threads going on, there are alot cause he is boxing, you'll see that yes i like Alexander but this is a crap fight. But it doesnt matter cause you see Floyd name and the hate in you grows bigger

He's underrated now in general, because he was so overrated after he stopped Urango. Still, Floyd should fight Guerrero hopefully. If Alexander were to beat Brook, than get another win over a Top 10 WW or if someone like Khan or Garcia came up in weight and he beat them, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

despite the clarity of my recollections of the fight, i took your advice. it was actually a little worse for Devon than i recalled. my card: Round 1: 10-9 Kotelnik Round 2: 10-9 Alexander Round 3: 10-9 Kotelnik Round 4: 10-9 Alexander Round 5: 10-9 Kotelnik Round 6: 10-9 Kotelnik (clearest round so far, Alexander's output slowed relatively and Kotelnik countered him silly in this stanza, even Lederman couldn't miss this) Round 7: 10-9 Kotelnik Round 8: 10-9 Kotelnik Round 9: 10-9 Kotelnik Round 10: 10-9 Kotelnik Round 11: 10-9 Alexander (Devon was very busy in the first half of the round while Kotelnik did little, but normal order was resumed in the second half with Kotelnik landing the more clean, effective stuff and Alexander just replying with volume of mostly blocked or missed shots - however, on the strength of that first minute and one thirty, I did give this round to Devon as a courtesy) Round 12: 10-9 Kotelnik (Devon got tooled up pretty good in this one) 117-111 Kotelnik 10-2 for Alexander in that fight is a travesty, if we're going by the recognized scoring criteria. by that criteria, it should've been wide for Andriy. Lederman even sounded slightly flustered trying to explain his card at the end. some rather choice audio samples from the telecast: "It's amazing how many right jabs he (Alexander) lands. And right hooks as well. He's constantly landing that jab." ^^ a shocking revelation of Lederman's poor eyesight, which we were more recently reminded of when he stated that Tim Bradley did not move his head and Manny Pacquiao was thus incapable of missing him with the straight left hand. yes, let's defer to Lederman, that most distinguished arbiter of clean, effective punching. HBO's pundits seemed happy with Alexander's round 3, presumably dizzy on the 'punches thrown' stat for Devon, but Alexander's trainer (Kevin Cunningham) seemed less impressed. "What is you just sitting in front of him for man? You gotta be slipping and sliding if you gonna be in front of this dude, man. Slide around him." so much for Alexander winning the generalship battle. Devon's own trainer was lamenting how easily Kotelnik was able to cut off and hit him after just 3 rounds (he was singing the same tune for the remainder of the fight). even the HBO callers had to start seeing it after a while, during a round that i had Alexander winning. Kellerman: "Another thing Kotelnik's doing is, just by applying pressure... good left hand landed by Kotelnik..." Papa: "Oh, good uppercut landed by Kotelnik..." Kellerman: "...just by applying pressure with his hands up, he's forcing to Devon to throw punches that hit air or gloves just to keep Kotelnik off him." which is what I said here, and Devon was often being countered hard between his punches while being primarily outjabbed. Papa: "...you almost get the feeling from his body language that he (Kotelnik) feels in control." Kellerman: "...might not be impressed with Alexander's defence tonight, some big holes." by round 6, they were really noticing it. by round 7, they're trying to rationalize and defend Lederman's awful 5-1 scorecard for him. Papa has it 3-3. Kellerman: "The jab (of Alexander) isn't landing that much." Kellerman: "They're landing well (the punches of Kotelnik), they're very well placed." Papa after round 7, "Alexander threw more, sure, 42 more, but Kotelnik landed more and he used that jab effectively." Kellerman in round 9, "Kotelnik has exposed some serious defensive flaws in Alexander." "Control of this fight was lost several rounds ago, and maybe Alexander never really had control." Papa, after round 9, "You can sense one corner is confident and one is concerned." Kellerman, round 10, "...for all the shots that we saw Alexander almost landing, that Harold pointed out, we just saw Kotelnik landing 3, 4, 5 clean shots on Alexander's head." Kellerman: "Kotelnik is doing more damage." ^^ is Lederman so much more the reliable expert than either Kellerman or Papa? :lol1: Papa, "...sense of uneasiness from the hometown fans, too." they needn't worry, Bob, St. Lou got this. after the 10th, the fighter with the ninja-turtle physique is looking shell-shocked in the corner. Kellerman notes this in the 11th. Lederman, "Alexander did get hit, but he's winning the rounds because he's the busier guy!" :wtf1: so, basically, Alexander is losing this fight, but, luckily, he's throwing a lot, so we can still say he's winning. ok. Kellerman, 11th round, "There's Kotelnik, in between Alexander's business and occasional clean shots, consistently snapping Alexander's head back." Kellerman, 12th round, "...Alexander's future as an undefeated star is in jeopardy here." don't be silly, Max, we're in the Lou! Alexander was the ring-general? really? Kotelnik schooled this guy in boxing, schooled him. the only thing Andriy couldn't really do was stop Devon in his tracks or buckle him, due to his known lack of punching power. this should not count against him, being that he completely outboxed Alexander. i enjoyed rewatching the fight, though. fine technical exhibition by Andriy. thanks. Damn good breakdown. There is zero argument for Alexander winning this fight. Lederman's card was an absolute disgrace.

I believe he is. WHAT? What a shock, who would of thought the #3 dick riding floyd stan on this site thinks Floyds latest cherry pick is massively underrated....

Devons talented but hes boring to watch mathyse beat him and was robbed bradley battered him kotelnik ****ed him up. Mayweather will crucify him. Pacquiao will put him in a box.

despite the clarity of my recollections of the fight, i took your advice. it was actually a little worse for Devon than i recalled. my card: Round 1: 10-9 Kotelnik Round 2: 10-9 Alexander Round 3: 10-9 Kotelnik Round 4: 10-9 Alexander Round 5: 10-9 Kotelnik Round 6: 10-9 Kotelnik (clearest round so far, Alexander's output slowed relatively and Kotelnik countered him silly in this stanza, even Lederman couldn't miss this) Round 7: 10-9 Kotelnik Round 8: 10-9 Kotelnik Round 9: 10-9 Kotelnik Round 10: 10-9 Kotelnik Round 11: 10-9 Alexander (Devon was very busy in the first half of the round while Kotelnik did little, but normal order was resumed in the second half with Kotelnik landing the more clean, effective stuff and Alexander just replying with volume of mostly blocked or missed shots - however, on the strength of that first minute and one thirty, I did give this round to Devon as a courtesy) Round 12: 10-9 Kotelnik (Devon got tooled up pretty good in this one) 117-111 Kotelnik 10-2 for Alexander in that fight is a travesty, if we're going by the recognized scoring criteria. by that criteria, it should've been wide for Andriy. Lederman even sounded slightly flustered trying to explain his card at the end. some rather choice audio samples from the telecast: "It's amazing how many right jabs he (Alexander) lands. And right hooks as well. He's constantly landing that jab." ^^ a shocking revelation of Lederman's poor eyesight, which we were more recently reminded of when he stated that Tim Bradley did not move his head and Manny Pacquiao was thus incapable of missing him with the straight left hand. yes, let's defer to Lederman, that most distinguished arbiter of clean, effective punching. HBO's pundits seemed happy with Alexander's round 3, presumably dizzy on the 'punches thrown' stat for Devon, but Alexander's trainer (Kevin Cunningham) seemed less impressed. "What is you just sitting in front of him for man? You gotta be slipping and sliding if you gonna be in front of this dude, man. Slide around him." so much for Alexander winning the generalship battle. Devon's own trainer was lamenting how easily Kotelnik was able to cut off and hit him after just 3 rounds (he was singing the same tune for the remainder of the fight). even the HBO callers had to start seeing it after a while, during a round that i had Alexander winning. Kellerman: "Another thing Kotelnik's doing is, just by applying pressure... good left hand landed by Kotelnik..." Papa: "Oh, good uppercut landed by Kotelnik..." Kellerman: "...just by applying pressure with his hands up, he's forcing to Devon to throw punches that hit air or gloves just to keep Kotelnik off him." which is what I said here, and Devon was often being countered hard between his punches while being primarily outjabbed. Papa: "...you almost get the feeling from his body language that he (Kotelnik) feels in control." Kellerman: "...might not be impressed with Alexander's defence tonight, some big holes." by round 6, they were really noticing it. by round 7, they're trying to rationalize and defend Lederman's awful 5-1 scorecard for him. Papa has it 3-3. Kellerman: "The jab (of Alexander) isn't landing that much." Kellerman: "They're landing well (the punches of Kotelnik), they're very well placed." Papa after round 7, "Alexander threw more, sure, 42 more, but Kotelnik landed more and he used that jab effectively." Kellerman in round 9, "Kotelnik has exposed some serious defensive flaws in Alexander." "Control of this fight was lost several rounds ago, and maybe Alexander never really had control." Papa, after round 9, "You can sense one corner is confident and one is concerned." Kellerman, round 10, "...for all the shots that we saw Alexander almost landing, that Harold pointed out, we just saw Kotelnik landing 3, 4, 5 clean shots on Alexander's head." Kellerman: "Kotelnik is doing more damage." ^^ is Lederman so much more the reliable expert than either Kellerman or Papa? :lol1: Papa, "...sense of uneasiness from the hometown fans, too." they needn't worry, Bob, St. Lou got this. after the 10th, the fighter with the ninja-turtle physique is looking shell-shocked in the corner. Kellerman notes this in the 11th. Lederman, "Alexander did get hit, but he's winning the rounds because he's the busier guy!" :wtf1: so, basically, Alexander is losing this fight, but, luckily, he's throwing a lot, so we can still say he's winning. ok. Kellerman, 11th round, "There's Kotelnik, in between Alexander's business and occasional clean shots, consistently snapping Alexander's head back." Kellerman, 12th round, "...Alexander's future as an undefeated star is in jeopardy here." don't be silly, Max, we're in the Lou! Alexander was the ring-general? really? Kotelnik schooled this guy in boxing, schooled him. the only thing Andriy couldn't really do was stop Devon in his tracks or buckle him, due to his known lack of punching power. this should not count against him, being that he completely outboxed Alexander. i enjoyed rewatching the fight, though. fine technical exhibition by Andriy. thanks. Very good piece from you there. I havent watched it since it happened, but I had it 118-110 and I think I may have given that eleventh round to Andriy. I also recall Kotelnik being given no chance in that fight beforehand mainly because of the hate for Khan. He won so damn clearly, an absolute travesty.

alexander is actually a bum in disguise

btw, if someone were to be astute in trying to defend Devon, they would at least mention his work to the body against Kotelnik. that is one area where you could boost his case a little. ...and only a little. I was horrified by the result of that fight, it was just plain wrong. The Matthyse decision was poor, but the Kotelnik one was an absolute stinker.

I like how you left out all the other things I pointed out that Devon did better. And I hate to tell, but ring generalship is a scoring criteria and Devon did control in that fight. Perhaps you should dust off a copy and re watch the fight, it's still fresh in my mind seeing I just watched it yesterday. Ring generalship....???? I cant be arsed to read through the thread, but are you still trying to claim that the Kotelnik fight was close??? The only thing that was close about that fight was Kotelnik almost pitching a shutout.

i remember looking forward to that fight but got incredibly disappointed. bradley toyed with his ass and made him quit. he's a good boxer but totally unproven at 147 and he unperformed against quality opposition at 140. good not great but look for people to make out to be the next Ali now that Floyd may fight him :)

oh, but i acknowledged his consistency in scoring for a fighter who the network is trying to build or push over an an opponent who is perceived as much less valuable. :lol1: oh dear. all it takes to control the pace of a fight is to move away and put out inaccurate volume while being cut off and tagged by the better quality punches? that's ring generalship? doesn't take much to convince some people. I like how you left out all the other things I pointed out that Devon did better. And I hate to tell, but ring generalship is a scoring criteria and Devon did control in that fight. Perhaps you should dust off a copy and re watch the fight, it's still fresh in my mind seeing I just watched it yesterday.

What i'd like to know is... does jabs count? :lol1::lol1::lol1:

so he's not always constant in favouring the guy who is more active over the guy who brings more of the accurate, quality punching? then, when is it most beneficial to be active but largely inaccurate while being outlanded in quality punches? when you are a young American that the network has hopes for and your opponent is a technically solid but unspectacular veteran from the Ukraine? Man, I am not Lederman, but if you can't tell by watching him score fights that he is consistent then I don't know what to tell you. Obviously nothing in boxing is the be all in all, but in this fight Devon was the busier guy, he was landing shots, he was getting off first, he was controlling the pace and the fight, and he had good ring generalship in the fight. All of those are things Lederman holds in high regard. However that does not mean a busier guy is going to win every time for Lederman, but he does like.

i mean, take Mayweather-N'dou, for instance. N'dou outthrew Mayweather and was often seen 'getting off first', yet Lederman had the fight 5-1 at the time of the stoppage. now, i'm not suggesting Harold was at all wrong in scoring for Mayweather, he wasn't. but my question is, if Lederman is so poorly sighted that he can only perceive volume and not quality, and if we must give his more strangely skewed scorecards a pass based on this, how was he able to correctly score Mayweather-N'dou? Obviously he takes more into account than just who is busier, but more often then not he likes the busier. There are always exceptions to the rule and yes he takes a lot more into account, but a busy fighter holds more weight with Lederman than with some other judges.