Wlad's "weak" chin

Ok... I decided to open this thread as this puzzles me for the long time now. I am Wlad's fan but more than that I am boxing fan I like to discuss on boxing and on fighters. I like to read reasonable arguments and I tend to change my opinion even on my favorite fighters. Today whenever someone mentions Wlad one of the first things that emerges is his 'weak/glass' chin. It's taken almost as the fact and it is like that for the long time. I can't really think of any other active or past fighter who was so dominant for such a long time that has been accused for having 'glass chin' more than Wlad (in any division). Moreover what I find very strange is the fact Wlad is a super heavyweight boxer where knock outs are happening more often than in any other division. Now here are some facts (I am not 'fact guy', I just want to put some merit in my coming questions). Wlad fought 62 fights and he was beaten 3 times by TKO. He never was KOed or put down by single punch. Every time he was on his feet before 10. He never was down in his 140 amateur fights. He was knock down by Sanders who is a hell of the puncher. The proof of that is 74% KO ratio among the fights he won. I never saw somebody was able to shake Vitali with a single punch as he manged to (and that's in the 1st round). He was a very hard handed fighter. I can't think of many fighters that would survive this : http://heavyweightblog.s3.amazonaws.com/knnimages/3headbuttsand2anvils.gif Now going to Brewster fight. Noone who is objective enough can't deny there was something very strange the way Wlad looked in that fight. Wlad looked gassed out after the first round. He never looked like that before. He continued draining without even be touched by Brewster. The way he looked by the end of fight doesn't look like a hurt fighter at all, but as someone who is completely drained and gassed out. http://heavyweightblog.s3.amazonaws.com/knnimages/wladimir-klitschko-vs-lamon-brewster.gif This is what Emanuel said : "Wladimir was in perfect shape for the bout. In all of my years as a trainer, I have never seen anything like this. I know when a fighter is hurt from an opponent’s punches. In this case, there was something else causing Wladimir’s problems." I am not convinced that this fight showed anything about Wlad's chin. Then there is Peter's fight. Peter coming in that fight was a monster with record of 24-0 (21 by KO). He put Wladimir down 3 times in that fight, but many argue that 2 of those 3 were rabbit punches. That one which was clear in 10 round came more from Wlad's poor coordination than from him being hurt. He was fully recovered in matter of seconds after every knock down and he actually looked better than peter in same rounds. Now there are lot of fighters that showed significant improvement in chin's strength with years. Foreman is the best example. Briggs is other that comes to mind. After Brewster Wlad fought 17 times and in those fights he did take some quite good shots from big punchers. Isn't possible that his chin improved with time? Only recently he took a very good clear punch from David Haye. He was wobbled but with similar punch haye was able to put down Chisora who is known for the good chin. Then he took a monstrous clear punch from 6 ft 8" giant on steroids and again I think he recovered very quickly and reacted well. And for the end... I don't claim by any means, Wlad has great or even very good chin but I wonder if people are taking on his chin too much. And please don't make this thread in typical klitschko-antiklitschko trolling. I am really asking this as a boxing fan!

Comments (20)

Sanders would have beaten Wlad again. Wlad made a mistake in thinking that Corrie was due for retirement, but he still had some top ten level contender strength in the tank. I actually suspect that Wlad, in true Wlad style, was waiting for Corrie to get really old before calling him out and rematching him, and beating up a fortysomething.

13y ago

JAB5239

Chill out, dude! I explained myself. My bad, I might assumed some things. You are too quick on calling someone a liar. You explained yourself AFTER I posted that, so maybe you're the one who needs to chill out. But the fact is whether you drew that conclusion based on assumption or not, it still isn't true. My appologies though if I came off harsh, I wasn't trying to insult you personally.

13y ago

Simurgh

Thats all good and nice. I'll remember to call anyone on that should they try and lie saying these HOF'ers did try to make rematches. Cool? Chill out, dude! I explained myself. My bad, I might assumed some things. You are too quick on calling someone a liar.

13y ago

Simurgh

You absolutely right...........after he tried to say "he tried to rematch Sanders". I based my opinion on the post-fight interviews. Sanders (RIP) spoke more about Vitali and possible match and Wlad insisted he'll rematch Sanders. Also I remember reading somewhere Wladimir was thinking to rematch Sanders after second Brewster fight, but them it made more sense to go for the unification fights.

13y ago

JAB5239

Not that it matters to me. Several HOF'ers didn't revenge their losses anyway. Thats all good and nice. I'll remember to call anyone on that should they try and lie saying these HOF'ers did try to make rematches. Cool?

13y ago

BattlingNelson

You absolutely right...........after he tried to say "he tried to rematch Sanders". Not that it matters to me. Several HOF'ers didn't revenge their losses anyway.

13y ago

JAB5239

Did he? I thought Simurgh said that Sanders chose Vitali instead of Wlad? You absolutely right...........after he tried to say "he tried to rematch Sanders".

13y ago

BattlingNelson

Jabs debunks and :crucified yet another Klit stan. Did he? I thought Simurgh said that Sanders chose Vitali instead of Wlad?

13y ago

Jedi_Vader

He did not try to rematch Sanders. If he had wanted hi he could have gotten him, just like Vits against Byrd. http://www.************.com/2010/06/corrie-sanders-doesn%E2%80%99t-know-why-wladimir-klitschko-never-sought-a-rematch/ Corrie Sanders doesn’t know why Wladimir Klitschko never sought a rematch By Jim Dower: Former WBO heavyweight champion Corrie Sanders (42-4, 31 KO’s) wishes that Wladimir Klitschko had sought to avenge his 2nd round knockout loss to him, and Sanders, now 44, doesn’t understand why Klitschko never tried to avenge his knockout loss to him. In an article at Sportbox.ru, Sanders says “Yes, it would be nice to fight him again. I do not know why he never wanted a rematch.” Sanders latter on went up against Wladimir’s big brother Vitali Klitschko, who after a shaky start in which he was staggered and almost dropped, came back to batter Sanders to a pulp and stop him in the 8th round in April 2004. Sanders points out that Vitali’s size was too much, saying “But he is so big that it was difficult to beat him.” Sanders thinks that Wladimir is vulnerable still, and doesn’t know if Wladimir would be still standing if he gets hit solid. However, Sanders thinks that Wladimir’s opponents have to be “bold and assertive” for them to beat him. He says that’s how Wladimir can make mistakes. Sanders “In our battle, Wladimir underestimated me, but afterwards he made adjustments.” Sanders, a 6’4” southpaw, with lightning fast hands and huge power, was a very dangerous heavyweight in the 90s and the early 2000s. He never was able to make it past a certain level until late in his career when he shocked Wladimir by stopping him in the 2nd round. At the time, Sanders was 37-years-old, and Wladimir may have been thinking he was an older fighter and thus no longer dangerous. You could see in the way that Wladimir fought him by going out and trying to slug with Sanders, that he didn’t really understand how much of a threat Sanders was until it was far too late. Wladimir ended up getting nailed with a number of big left hands from Sanders and knocked down twice near the end of the 1st round. In the 2nd, Sanders put Klitschko away after knocking him down for a third time. It seemed like Sanders really had Klitschko’s number and even if there had been a rematch, many people believe Sanders would have easily knocked Wladimir out again. But to his credit, Wladimir soon after got a new trainer, Emanuel Steward, and after one more loss to Lamon Brewster, Wladimir has been unbeaten for the past six years, winning his last 12 fights. For his part, Sanders was beaten in his next fight after the Wladimir win, losing to Vitali Klitschko by knockout. Sanders then beat three 2nd tier fighters before getting stopped in the 1st round two years ago by fellow South African Osborne Machimana. At 44, it’s hard to imagine Sanders being able to get into good enough shape to fight Wladimir. Jabs debunks and :crucified yet another Klit stan.

13y ago

Simurgh

“In our battle, Wladimir underestimated me, but afterwards he made adjustments.” Nicely summarized by Sanders.

13y ago

Simurgh

Wladimir lost to Brewster under very strange conditions at about same time when Vitali destroyed Sanders. His career was in question. He wasn't even sure would he box anymore. After he rebuilt himself fight with Sanders was pretty much pointless as sanders was pretty much retired.

13y ago

JAB5239

He tried to rematch Sanders, but Sanders chose Vitali (a reasonable decision). After he was beaten by Vitali he pretty much retired. He did not try to rematch Sanders. If he had wanted hi he could have gotten him, just like Vits against Byrd. http://www.************.com/2010/06/corrie-sanders-doesn%E2%80%99t-know-why-wladimir-klitschko-never-sought-a-rematch/ Corrie Sanders doesn’t know why Wladimir Klitschko never sought a rematch By Jim Dower: Former WBO heavyweight champion Corrie Sanders (42-4, 31 KO’s) wishes that Wladimir Klitschko had sought to avenge his 2nd round knockout loss to him, and Sanders, now 44, doesn’t understand why Klitschko never tried to avenge his knockout loss to him. In an article at Sportbox.ru, Sanders says “Yes, it would be nice to fight him again. I do not know why he never wanted a rematch.” Sanders latter on went up against Wladimir’s big brother Vitali Klitschko, who after a shaky start in which he was staggered and almost dropped, came back to batter Sanders to a pulp and stop him in the 8th round in April 2004. Sanders points out that Vitali’s size was too much, saying “But he is so big that it was difficult to beat him.” Sanders thinks that Wladimir is vulnerable still, and doesn’t know if Wladimir would be still standing if he gets hit solid. However, Sanders thinks that Wladimir’s opponents have to be “bold and assertive” for them to beat him. He says that’s how Wladimir can make mistakes. Sanders “In our battle, Wladimir underestimated me, but afterwards he made adjustments.” Sanders, a 6’4” southpaw, with lightning fast hands and huge power, was a very dangerous heavyweight in the 90s and the early 2000s. He never was able to make it past a certain level until late in his career when he shocked Wladimir by stopping him in the 2nd round. At the time, Sanders was 37-years-old, and Wladimir may have been thinking he was an older fighter and thus no longer dangerous. You could see in the way that Wladimir fought him by going out and trying to slug with Sanders, that he didn’t really understand how much of a threat Sanders was until it was far too late. Wladimir ended up getting nailed with a number of big left hands from Sanders and knocked down twice near the end of the 1st round. In the 2nd, Sanders put Klitschko away after knocking him down for a third time. It seemed like Sanders really had Klitschko’s number and even if there had been a rematch, many people believe Sanders would have easily knocked Wladimir out again. But to his credit, Wladimir soon after got a new trainer, Emanuel Steward, and after one more loss to Lamon Brewster, Wladimir has been unbeaten for the past six years, winning his last 12 fights. For his part, Sanders was beaten in his next fight after the Wladimir win, losing to Vitali Klitschko by knockout. Sanders then beat three 2nd tier fighters before getting stopped in the 1st round two years ago by fellow South African Osborne Machimana. At 44, it’s hard to imagine Sanders being able to get into good enough shape to fight Wladimir.

13y ago

BBomber

I agree, Wlad's chin is not as terrible as some people say. He has an average chin, not good, but you don't become, or stay, HW champion if your chin is as solid as wet paper. That said, the comparison with Tyson or Frazier is ridicolous. Frazier had an entirely different style, if Wlad fought anything like Smokin' Joe he'd be kissing the canvas in most of his fights, in spite of the weak competition. A really bad comparison. Tyson had a very good chin, very good head movement, speed, blance. Yet he took more risks and more punishment than Wlad. It is rather normal when you have a reach and height disadvantage in most of your fights. A small historical note, Haye is indeed a good puncher, but he is a carreer CW. That's why I would not automatically assume Wlad would demolish great fighters of the past like Louis or Jersey Joe, who were simply better than Haye, in all regards. Back to topic, Wlad's best quality, along with his effective use of the jab, is his ring generalship. That, more than his chin or defensive skills, allow him to fight his fight, at least most of the times. Even though I don't rate Lewis as high as most, I think Wlad is around that level, all things considered.

13y ago

Simurgh

That was his problem against Brewster. Sanders was a very hard puncher and Wlad didn't fight him right back then. I'm sure this version of Wlad would beat him. He tried to rematch Sanders, but Sanders chose Vitali (a reasonable decision). After he was beaten by Vitali he pretty much retired. Sanders was a very awkward fighter, southpaw, extremely fast handed and hell of a puncher. He almost got Vitali in the first round. If any other fighter was there instead of iron-chinned Vitali he'll be down. Wladimir was bit too aggressive bit too soon (he was too green). I am sure he wouldn't do the same mistake again if they had immediate rematch. But don't base an opinion just on that fight. What about all other fights where Wlad did receive some big punches (Haye, Thomspon, Wach, Chegaev...) He took them very good IMO.

13y ago

ROSS_CALIFORNIA

Wlad chin is not his problem its like his legs go weak.i That was his problem against Brewster. Sanders was a very hard puncher and Wlad didn't fight him right back then. I'm sure this version of Wlad would beat him.

13y ago

DreamFighter

Tyson was KOd by Buster Douglas, Kevin MCbride, Danny Williams, NO shame to losing to Holyfield, and LL, you cant criticise Wlad chin and turn around and say Tyson had a good chin. I notice you didn't answer the question about Tysons run as champion when he wanted to box. His chin and will were terrible when he was no longer committed, everyone knows that, that's why I discluded them, but I am not sure why you've completely disregarded the question that was asked.

13y ago

ROSS_CALIFORNIA

Tyson was KOd by Buster Douglas, Kevin MCbride, Danny Williams, NO shame to losing to Holyfield, and LL, you cant criticise Wlad chin and turn around and say Tyson had a good chin. Buster Douglas- After being hit all night. Kevin MCbride- Tyson was way passed his prime. Danny Williams- Tyson was way passed his prime. Tyson had a decent chin. Go watch the Lewis fight and see what kind of beating it took to get him out of there. No way Wlad could make it as far through that kind of punishment.

13y ago

theghost1

Wlad chin is not his problem its like his legs go weak.i

13y ago

ROSS_CALIFORNIA

If Wladimir Klitschkos has a weak chin then what do you call Tysons chin? Bad example. Every time Tyson was stopped, it was later in the fight after an accumulation of shots. As for Wlad, his chin is decent, but not the greatest. Lennox Lewis' chin was worse than Wlad.

13y ago

theghost1

despite being by far the smaller man in all hisd fights, when was Tyson knocked down during his unbeaten run as a young champion prior to being torn apart by Robin Givens, going to prison and thus giving up on boxing? Tyson was KOd by Buster Douglas, Kevin MCbride, Danny Williams, NO shame to losing to Holyfield, and LL, you cant criticise Wlad chin and turn around and say Tyson had a good chin.

13y ago