Did Cotto have the right game plan for Trout? Consecutive Hooks?

Quote: Originally Posted by thatdudespits Pacquiao beat his ass because cotto decided to trade with a guy who had faster hands... pacquiao was playing the angles well in that fight... his footwork has rarely looked as good... When you fight a come forward style, your bound to get hit sometimes... and yes Zab caught Cotto with some good uppercuts... doesnt change the fact that he lost almost every round of the fight...cotto came forward the entire fight constant pressure. zab has fast hands ... he has a REAL knockdown that he should have gotten credit for on floyd.... mosley... cotto fought that fight coming forward for most of the fight... won most his rounds that way... he only switched styles when mosley started to rally and cotto saw he wasnt going to knock him out... Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android You're right. About Zab. Cotto got comfortable and Zab folded. I don't know what the hell him knocking Floyd down has to do with it but OK. As for Mosley, he worked in and out. Cotto has to be able to switch it up like I stated. He doesn't have much in the way of reach. He should have given more ground and used his jab against Trout once he saw Austin was better than he expected on the inside. Its OK to give ground as the smaller guy and a seasoned vet. Get in and get out. Trout gave him chances. Trout was dog ass tired because he hasn't had to fight like that much. Quote: Originally Posted by 12TRIBEsRiSe cotto should have taken a few more months off, and no he didnt have the right game plan, but trout had everything over cotto, size, youth etc He didn't have experience over Cotto. Cotto abandoned (not taken away) what he does best and that's jab and body work. Trout is the new Mike Jones. Lengthy with solid skills. Not some brilliant ring general like BS posters would lead you to believe. the zab knocking floyd down comment was meant to stress that everyone gets hit in fights even mayweather...but that didnt change the fact that cotto dominated judah... and he was coming forward on mosley for almost the entire fight... but i see your point... letting trout come to him did work in round 6... but that doesnt change the fact that in rounds 3,4,5 cotto was successful coming forward... maybe a different look would have helped him... hard to say... I think Cotto could really use a new strength & conditioning coach... i think a new philosophy in that department would do wonders for him. Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

Andre Ward showed the world how to deal with a tall southpaw. Straight right hand to the chest and body, left hook up stairs. Built over the first 3 rounds. Team Cotto a month later were trying to land a right hook to the body and come back with a left hook against a fighter with good eyes. Was that a smart game plan or is Trout that good? Personally I think Cotto should have beat trout easy Listen bro, just because Andre Ward can do something, doesn't mean Miguel Cotto can. Bush it's amazing to me how some people think that boxing is a video game where there is some code to beating anyone and everyone. Truth is, Trout was a really tough match up for Cotto, no matter the strategy. First off, Cotto is NOT a natural 154lber, you can see the difference between him at 147 and 154. At 140 he was a beast, walking through fighters and attacking the body. At 154, he's small and can't impose his will the same way he once did. Also he is older now and has been through too many wars and isn't the same fighter. IMO I think Trout respected him too much in that fight and could have won even more convincingly. Trout has the advantage in almost every category against Cotto and you can see the size and strength difference. Have the utmost respect for Cotto but Trout simply did him a favour by saving him a brutal beating at the hands of Canelo.

Listen bro, just because Andre Ward can do something, doesn't mean Miguel Cotto can. Right. Cotto is not a naturally right handed fighter and it showed. He didn't use his right NEARLY enough in that fight and that is the best weapon against a southpaw. The left hook is also great against a southpaw but tougher when the southpaw is much bigger than you like in this case.

Cotto is a man without a weight division anymore. I honestly think he's too small for 154lb height wise and for his style which was brutal for a lot at the lower weights, it's just not effective now. He's gotta go back down or get out of there. Obviously he won't be going back down... I don't know why he would not go down again..Some nice winnable fights for Cotto at 147lb..At 154lb he does not have the stamina or the smart to beat top JMW imho...

Cotto is a man without a weight division anymore. I honestly think he's too small for 154lb height wise and for his style which was brutal for a lot at the lower weights, it's just not effective now. He's gotta go back down or get out of there. Obviously he won't be going back down...

Andre Ward showed the world how to deal with a tall southpaw. Straight right hand to the chest and body, left hook up stairs. Built over the first 3 rounds. Team Cotto a month later were trying to land a right hook to the body and come back with a left hook against a fighter with good eyes. Was that a smart game plan or is Trout that good? Personally I think Cotto should have beat trout easy If you thought Cotto would beat any top Jr MW easy without never have been in the ring with a top Jr MW is where you went wrong first...I like Cotto,but his skill's and execution is greatly overrated...Cotto was doing fine early imo,but like always his stamina does not hold up..With his stamina drop off,his focus also get's away from him...Watch that fight again,Cotto is lost past the six rd...If Trout had been someone like Alvarez I fear Cotto would have been stopped...Cotto is a solid fighter..But against other top fighters he has not always shown he can out think them...That's a problem,because make no mistake about it..This is a thinking mans sport...

I seriously doubt that. Since when does someone rehydrate 25lbs? Not even Chavez Jr. does that shit. Cotto probably rehydrated to 160-164 while Trout rehydrated to 164-170. At the most, it was a 10lb difference. I meant 25 pounds bigger than Floyd who said he was 147 on the night he fought Cotto. Trout came in at 10, that's a 23 pound difference and the size difference between both guys is substantial enough for me to believe it rather easily.

He was looping that left hook from the opening bell. Quit throwing his jab, like he always does. Body work was non existent again. Seemed to be looking for that one shot to turn it around and he doesn't have the power at this weight to do that. Trout came to fight and was not going to lay down. I think Cotto thought the moment was going to overwhelm him, as did I. He proved us both wrong.

Andre Ward showed the world how to deal with a tall southpaw. Straight right hand to the chest and body, left hook up stairs. Built over the first 3 rounds. Team Cotto a month later were trying to land a right hook to the body and come back with a left hook against a fighter with good eyes. Was that a smart game plan or is Trout that good? Personally I think Cotto should have beat trout easy He did use the wrong game plan. He should have realized he has been at the end of his career since before Margarito vs Cotto 2. He should have stood away from any fighter that is unbeaten,tall, big with pretty good boxing style, and south paw. Stylistic...he is a nightmare for most, especially and older fighter. Cash out Cotto. Get the big money and promote.

Wait, what?? So the shorter fighter (Cotto) should have tried to fight off the backfoot?? Listen bro, shorter fighters need to get inside the longer fighters reach.Bob & weave his way in & work the body & head, tie up & repeat. A shorter fighter fighting on the outside is suicide in most instances. Yeah they normally should but in this case getting to the inside with out getting picked apart was the hard part for cotto. Cottos timing could have pulled off my plan. And technically he'd still be on the inside just in a different way. All cotto has to to do is make him miss with the slip or have him reach and counter from there and set up the combinations

There really was no way Cotto was going to beat Trout, even though I though Cotto would win. The physical advantages were too much and the experience/IQ was too little to make any difference. Cotto was the shorter, slower, smaller and possibly had less power than Trout. He wasn't going to muscle Trout around like Floyd, Trout came in nearly 25 pounds heavier. He was also pretty slick (which surprised me) and had good pop, given Cotto's chin is at best average at 154 Cotto could have had 3 arms and still would have lost that fight. I seriously doubt that. Since when does someone rehydrate 25lbs? Not even Chavez Jr. does that shit. Cotto probably rehydrated to 160-164 while Trout rehydrated to 164-170. At the most, it was a 10lb difference.

Cotto tried different things and Trout adjusted which is a sign of a good fighter. IMO Trout would had adjusted to whatever Cotto was going to bring on

There really was no way Cotto was going to beat Trout, even though I though Cotto would win. The physical advantages were too much and the experience/IQ was too little to make any difference. Cotto was the shorter, slower, smaller and possibly had less power than Trout. He wasn't going to muscle Trout around like Floyd, Trout came in nearly 25 pounds heavier. He was also pretty slick (which surprised me) and had good pop, given Cotto's chin is at best average at 154 Cotto could have had 3 arms and still would have lost that fight.

cotto should have taken a few more months off, and no he didnt have the right game plan, but trout had everything over cotto, size, youth etc

No he should have stayed on the back foot and trout come to him and lead him into exchanges then slide out and reset. I only saw a round or two of the fight but it looked like cotto was coming to him and that's bad vs a fighter with longer reach and better speed who can catch you comming in. Just watching this fight on its own merits, Cotto had the most success when Trout was inching forward. All of Cotto's best shots came when Trout was moving forward. Trout stylistically was better with Cotto coming in, so the role reversal served Cotto better in this fight. But on the average, your original point stands Agree with both of these. Cotto did his best work when Trout was moving forward.

Quote: Originally Posted by thatdudespits thats just not true... it is an aspect of his game, and he can fight going backwards but he is at his best applying intellegent pressure behind his jab... Trout was a really tall mountain to climb... not sure why everyone is writing Cotto off... Id put money on Trout vs Canelo... Canelo doesnt do as well as Cotto... not enough versatility in his attack and hes not as good defensively.... dont let cottos face fool you... his face swells badly since Margarito I... Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android His best fights were fought in that fashion. He beat Mosely by being the slicker boxer. When he uses his jab (which is decievingly fast)and moves backward at angles (not straight back) he looks really good. The video evidence is there. Over aggressiveness moving in got his ass whooped by Pacquiao. His problem has always been bad game planning. Think about it. When he stood in range with Judah he got beat. When he decided to box and use his feet it got easier. Not saying he should abandon the inside game totally but he should soften guys up with his boxing first. The issue is knowing when to switch it up. Pacquiao beat his ass because cotto decided to trade with a guy who had faster hands... pacquiao was playing the angles well in that fight... his footwork has rarely looked as good... When you fight a come forward style, your bound to get hit sometimes... and yes Zab caught Cotto with some good uppercuts... doesnt change the fact that he lost almost every round of the fight...cotto came forward the entire fight constant pressure. zab has fast hands ... he has a REAL knockdown that he should have gotten credit for on floyd.... mosley... cotto fought that fight coming forward for most of the fight... won most his rounds that way... he only switched styles when mosley started to rally and cotto saw he wasnt going to knock him out... Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

Wait, what?? So the shorter fighter (Cotto) should have tried to fight off the backfoot?? Listen bro, shorter fighters need to get inside the longer fighters reach.Bob & weave his way in & work the body & head, tie up & repeat. A shorter fighter fighting on the outside is suicide in most instances. If you are fighting a taller guy that is good at keeping you outside, it is a good strategy to back off and let him come to you. If your forward movement ins't getting you close enough, let HIS forward movement get you close enough. You shouldn't fight off of the backfoot and TRY to be outside of your range. But backing off and letting him move forward is a good option if your normal strategy isn't working.

Cotto was having some success on the back-foot, but still, you don't want to give up that much territory against a guy who has the size and speed advantage. Trout isn't at his best on the front foot, and Cotto isn't at his best on the back foot.

Cotto has always done better when he's being followed. It was evident in the fight with Floyd also. I agree that he should have fought in reverse as much as possible. thats just not true... it is an aspect of his game, and he can fight going backwards but he is at his best applying intellegent pressure behind his jab... Trout was a really tall mountain to climb... not sure why everyone is writing Cotto off... Id put money on Trout vs Canelo... Canelo doesnt do as well as Cotto... not enough versatility in his attack and hes not as good defensively.... dont let cottos face fool you... his face swells badly since Margarito I... Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

Great discussions here... I think what happened to Cotto was that he could simply no followed the game plan entirely and tried to KO Trout. The "KO only route" is a demon he sadly still need to fight at this stage on his career. Some time ago he admitted get accustomed to KO guys and forgot boxing. There are a couple of rounds in the middle that Cotto boxed moving around Trout and was successful. Curiously, similar to some great rounds against May... and what I think was most of his style against Mosley. At Margarito II, he followed the plan (a different one) most of the fight, but there were several occasions when he did not follow Pedro's advice and wanted to exchange.... so the chance this happened here still on my mind, probably because he thought Trout was another step stone. We should not forget either what Trout said... there are not too many videos or fights out there "to study me", so the chance of having a great plan diminished... only stay strong the chance to adapt quickly... and here Pedro is a rookie... and Cotto still a fuqqin stubborn to fix himself. ...of course, all said by no means discredit Trout's victory. Congrats to him and their team!