Do you think Wlad is better P4P than Pacquiao and Donaire?

You are entitled to your opinion and I always respect what every rational poster contributes but I never felt Pacquiao had great fundamentals. Pacquiao had an explosive, dynamic style that worked wonders for him and made him a great fighter, but his skills are not traditional in a classic sense. If you take a new fighter and teach him to try and fight like Pacquiao, chances are he will get knocked out. Pacquiao, like Roy Jones and, to a lesser degree, Hamed, had physical gifts that made him special. On the other hand, Wladimir, is a classic boxer puncher with solid technique and an extensive amateur pedigree. That's why I choose Wladimir's fundamentals over Pacquiao's physical attributes. I agree to an extent. Very true, if you take a kid and ask him to fight like Pac chances are far worse than he just getting knocked out cold. It'd be very dangerous for the kid. Pac 's heart and physical tools made him what he is. I though disagree about Wlad. In my opinion he's not a classic boxer puncher but an outside fighter with rather limited fundamentals. He is though extremely effective. He has a great ring generalship and manages to impose his jab, so that he can fight at a comfortable pace.

I think each man's best win is about equal (Froch v. Darchinyan). Donaire has fought in more classes but Ward's been in a strong class and dominated some good fighters. I think he's got a better overall game and he's a more intelligent fighter than Donaire. I don't consider the gaps between the top five (I'll update the list soon but that's Ward, May, JMM, Serg, and Donaire) to be all that big outside the head to head between May and JMM. You can make a lot of cases. I just think, of all the guys at their peak, Ward is the best right now based on quality wins and the ways he wins. really ?darchinyan = froch? i dont think i agree but how about montiel who was p4p # 8 , whats that equal to a ward win ..and nishioka the NUmber 1 in his division?. kessler?..dawson?. would'nt that equal to about narvaez and a couple of nonito wins in his division's top 10?..im just curious crold , thats all , you are the best !

i dont see why not exp pac man i dont think he gets the credit he deserves. same wit vitali really

hey rold , i respect you and all but why do you think ward should be higher than nonito right now ? who's done more lately or overall in your opinion? I think each man's best win is about equal (Froch v. Darchinyan). Donaire has fought in more classes but Ward's been in a strong class and dominated some good fighters. I think he's got a better overall game and he's a more intelligent fighter than Donaire. I don't consider the gaps between the top five (I'll update the list soon but that's Ward, May, JMM, Serg, and Donaire) to be all that big outside the head to head between May and JMM. You can make a lot of cases. I just think, of all the guys at their peak, Ward is the best right now based on quality wins and the ways he wins.

I'm going with no. hey rold , i respect you and all but why do you think ward should be higher than nonito right now ? who's done more lately or overall in your opinion?

Dan Rafael seems to thinks so. In his latest P4P list. I'm going with no.

Of course Wlad is better P4P than both. Can you imagine if Wlad was 142 lbs and still hit as hard as he does what he would do to Pac? He'd kill that clown and then take Jinky as his personal sexual advisor on Asian relations. Wlad uses his natural gifts better than any boxer and who cares if he was KO'ed 7 years ago...just 3 years ago Pacquiao was still good. People are idiots when it comes to the heavyweight division, they have these strange fantasies of Ray Lewis sized dudes battling it out when in reality the heavyweight division tends to be made up of 1 or 2 great fighters a decade and a bunch of clowns and being that size anyone can knock anyone out. Watch Ali vs. Cooper and then Wlad vs. Brewster...If the ref from Brewster was the ref in Ali vs. Cooper 1...then Cooper would have won by KO. No discussion about it, the fight would have been called when Ali stumbled to find his corner. The 60's was a time when a 188 lbs british club fighter knocked out a guy who was considered "the greatest of all time" in the 70's a fighter with a 6-0-1 fought and won THE world title, in the 80s everyone but Tyson was considered average and Tyson never beat anyone who was any good in their prime. In the 90s a 50 year old DD breasted man became hw champ. People always say an era was weak in the HW division until that time passes. P4P is stupid, and should be how based on how well you dominate your division. Its opinionated, but to say someone who has lost their last 2 fights and probably should have lost 3 in a row, should even be ranked...is just stupid biased. I have Pacquiao ranked 84th on my p4p list. :rofl: If you're going to scale up or down a fighter you scale the power with it, it would be impossible for a 142lb fighter to hit as hard as Wlad. Oh and hugging and holding isn't a natural gift it's cheating and he wouldn't look half as good if he was prevented from doing it because he has no other defence.

hell no ...but wlad should rightfully be above pacqauio right now...

If you think cheating as a form of defence is acceptable i suppose you could have him ahead.

Dan Rafael seems to thinks so. In his latest P4P list. Thats because that fat f**k works for Epix and does those fights in the booth. I wouldn't go to a Wlad fight if I was giving a free front row ticket to watch him fight.

Not really they are two world class fighters fighting at the top of their divisions while Wilder fights cans and still may have worse punch stats than both for all I know. They aren't cans, Wilder just makes them look like cans. Isn't that the argument you use for Wlad?

NO. Wlad is NOT better than Pac or Donaire.

Ruslan was a 5'11 guy who went life and death with the corpse version of John Ruiz. Stop it. No he didnt. Chagaev looked very good in that fight, he beat Valuev clearly which is something Haye could do against a worse version and Ruslan also won his series 2-1 over Felix Savon, the first fight when he was only 18. Chagaev is a damn good fighter and would have been a belt holder or serious contender in any era.

I don't think you can give much credit to Heavy weights there is just NO opposition what so ever that division has been sh*t for years.

They become crap opposition because Wlad is beating them, they are B-level compared only to what is above them in class which is Wlad and Vitali. Interesting how the last resort of posters who want to discredit Wlad point to the fact that he can't just invent his own opponents or go back in time and fight ATG HWs. No they're straight up B level. Guys who wouldn't be in the top 30 in a good HW era. It's not a last resort it's the main thing that hurts Wlad's legacy, his poor opposition. Using punch stats to prove that Wlad is better than Pac is like using punch stats to prove that Deontay Wilder is better than Wlad.

Ok.. Let's do this comparison than. Sugar Ray Leonard is a 1st tier ATG.. You saying Wladimir is on par and a 1st tier ATG as well? Fine . Let us see. Sugar Ray Leonard Top wins: In whatever order Roberto Duran Tommy Hearns Marvin Hagler Wilfred Benitez Ayub Kalule Wladimir Klithscko top wins: In whatever order Chris Byrd Sultan Ibragimovic David Haye Tony Thompson Ruslan Chagev Eddie Chambers Ya... they are both 1st tier ATGS.. lol. In fact, Wladimir's BEST WIN: Chris Byrd. (who he UDed) Was already beaten by a 20 fight Novice name Ike.. Brutally beaten. People like you can't be reasoned with, there is no "debating" with you, because for every reason that you criticize Pac, Wlad, whoever... you give the fighters you like a free pass for the exact same reasons. You are an idiot, and everyone who isn't like you knows it.

Stats are tools of reflection and they reflect that what Wlad is doing is over all more efficient than Pac which would indicate that he is more skillful. Also sorry Wlad can't create a giant HW version of JMM for him to fight and prove himself to you. What part of "it's easier to be efficient against crap opposition" don't you understand? Stats don't mean **** if you're fighting B level fighters.

Wlad is higher than Pacquaio though. Both fighters have become over rated for different reasons. 1-Pacquaio because of Media Hype 2- Wladimir because of people UNDER RATING HIM. Because people under rate Wladimir, idiots tend to think he's greater than he is. It's call the 'under over effect'. Certain fighters became so underrated, they get over rated.... Let's call a spade a spade. Pacquaio is a 2nd tier ATG. Wladimir is 3rd tier ATG. neither are 1st tier ATG. You are a complete fool. They are CLEARLY both undeniably top tier ATGs. Wladimir is in the middle of a historic title reign. Despite who he is facing, he is DESTROYING every single fighter with ease. He is one of a few fighters who was seriously flawed and proceeded to address these flaws and put together a very large string of victories. Pacquiao went on one of the best runs in boxing history, moving up in multiple weight classes, DESTROYING many HOF fighters in the process. You idiots can discredit ANY fighter in history if you want - but if you are going to discredit Klitschko and Pacquiao, then go ahead and discredit every single fighter that you are a fan of because no fighter in history can live up to the narrow, downright unfair criteria that you've implied. You can't outline this idiotic criteria for one fighter and then 'loosen it' for the ones you like, that is subjective. So if you are going to sh*t on these guys for historic careers, be sure you sh*t on guys like Tyson, Duran, Lewis, Ali, Haggler, because that is what you'll need to do if you want to avoid being a hypocrite. Idiot.

He is hit less frequently, much more accurate, doesn't need as wide array of punches to be effective as Pac, and also was not ko'd recently......sounds like he is more skilled to me. One guy is fighting good to great fighters and the other is fighting B to C level fighters, you can't be seriously trying to compare punch stats. If Wlad fights somebody as great as Marquez P4P he gets stretched out. What about Sanders and Purrity? Sanders would have knocked out Wlad again in the rematch. I am 100% sure of that. Wlad is the only ATG HW who would have lost an immediate rematch to somebody that upsetted him. Liston was upset by Ali and then lost the immediate rematch.

I'm sorry, I know its not fair to Wlad but I cannot look at the man and the fighters he is fighting, and say Wlad is P4P better than either. I have a hard time putting him on the list, period. Its not just Wlad, I feel that way about heavyweights in general.