Liston, Tyson, Lennox, Vitali, & Wlad: Rank these resumes

Haye vs Bruno thread has nothing do with the Klitschko's. Haye vs Lewis thread...whether Lennox would KO him again has nothing to do with the Klitschko's. In both cases you are likely to get a true reflection of the general consensus. Have you ever seen a prime Mercer fight? He was a hell of a fighter, Olympic gold medalist, very good pro too. Like I have said before, Wladimir has not beaten anyone to tell me that he definitely beats these guys. He has no A-level fighters on his resume, and only has a few solid B level guys there. His biggest achievement is consistency and longevity. But you cannot compare him to the best heavyweights of all time because his competition has been too weak, but Klitschko fans like yourself find it difficult to accept this truth. I have no agenda here, I call a spade a spade. I don't like Floyd Mayweather, I have often pulled for his opponents, but there is no denying the man is a genius. Of course I saw Mercer fights and to tell he would beat present Wlad is crazy. Wlad already destroyed him (dropped him in the first round) and continued to brutally beat him until referee stopped him. Yes he was 40 and past his prime, but thar version of wlad is not the third of the fighter he is now... If lewis never fought mavrovic or tua or vitali I am sure if I posted the any of those threads people would say lewis would take them in 5 rounds. I like Lewis, he was a fantastic fighter (massive and skilled) but he wasn't really a KO master (72%) and he wasn't Muhammed Ali - skilled wise. Haye and Byrd are A level fighters, while some other wlad comfortably beat are very near.

Tyson stopped Holmes in 4. Holmes only 2 losses were 2 dubious decisions vs. Spinks. Only man to stop Holmes. Tyson stopped Spinks in 91 seconds. Just wow. Animal.

Why would I make unnecessary threads. It will tell nothing I already don't know - this forum has much more Lennox fans, and anti-Klitscko fans. Mercer beats Wlad?! You must be kidding... Well... Nevermind... I think it's pointless to discuss it anymore, everybody is entitled to own opinion. Haye vs Bruno thread has nothing do with the Klitschko's. Haye vs Lewis thread...whether Lennox would KO him again has nothing to do with the Klitschko's. In both cases you are likely to get a true reflection of the general consensus. Have you ever seen a prime Mercer fight? He was a hell of a fighter, Olympic gold medalist, very good pro too. Like I have said before, Wladimir has not beaten anyone to tell me that he definitely beats these guys. He has no A-level fighters on his resume, and only has a few solid B level guys there. His biggest achievement is consistency and longevity. But you cannot compare him to the best heavyweights of all time because his competition has been too weak, but Klitschko fans like yourself find it difficult to accept this truth. I have no agenda here, I call a spade a spade. I don't like Floyd Mayweather, I have often pulled for his opponents, but there is no denying the man is a genius.

Liston was only really a Top fighter for about 5-6 years, but he racked up some really good wins. Williams and Harris were both Top 10 HW's, solid wins when he beat them. He also beat Eddie Machen and Zora Folley, who were Top HW's when he fought them. Machen and Folley would have both won multilpe titles had their been this many belts back then. Folley had plenty of good/solid wins during his time. And Liston beat Floyd Patterson, who was the best HW in the world at the time, is a HOF, and one of the best HW's around that time aside from Liston and Ali. Patterson beat Jackson, Moore, Harris, London, Johansson, Machen, Chuvalo, Cooper, and Bonavena. Liston beating Patterson is better than any Wlad win, easily. Liston's other top wins were Folley and Machen, which are every bit as good as Wlad beating Haye and Byrd, at the least. Then, Liston had solid wins over Williams and Harris, which are just as good as Wlad beating Eddie Chambers and Ruslan Chagaev, in terms of a quality win. Sure, Wlad has other solid wins because he's been a Top HW longer than Liston, who was basically done after Ali schooled him. But Liston's wins over Patterson tae him above Wlad in my opinion.

Why would I make unnecessary threads. It will tell nothing I already don't know - this forum has much more Lennox fans, and anti-Klitscko fans. Mercer beats Wlad?! You must be kidding... Well... Nevermind... I think it's pointless to discuss it anymore, everybody is entitled to own opinion.

Haye would not last 12 rounds with Lewis. Make that thread, bet you lose that one as well. Lewis knew how to go dog when he had to, he had killer instinct when necessary.

I have absolutely no doubt that Lewis would beat Haye. Would he KO him, I don't know. Prime Lewis didn't KO Mavrovic and Haye is a better boxer. Haye's chin is not too good but it can cope quite well. And Haye is not that small - same size as Mavrovic for example. Golota is always a toss up. I actually think that this guy on his night could beat many great HW but I can see him loosing to Chisorra like fighter as well. I also can't see how that version of Tyson would land anything clear on Haye with Haye's speed. Haye that fought Wlad beats Bruno that fought Lewis every time! Tyson was still very...very fast for a heavyweight when he fought Lewis, just because he wasnt nearly as fast as his prime doesn't mean he wasnt still faster than lots of heavyweights. Just because Haye has good dimensions doesn't make him a natural heavyweight, height and reach doesn't make you a heavyweight, he is very small, plus he is a back foot counter puncher, not a squat strong pressure fighter. No way does Haye beat Bruno, no way no how! Make that thread, I bet you anything Bruno wins, he was a very underrated heavyweight. He was outboxing Lewis before he got stopped, his main issue was stamina, guess what? That will not be exposed by Haye, as he also struggles with this. I'll be honest with you, I'm not sure Wlad beats a prime Bruno or Mercer, forget Haye. Bruno rocked both prime Lewis and Tyson, he had an awesome jab. I see Wlad struggling with him. Mercer gave prime Holyfield and Lewis hell.

First of all I said semi competitive, are you illiterate? Haye won probably 2 rounds, and there were quite a few close rounds. I am a big Haye fan, more of Haye fan than Lewis. I just know what I am looking at and have the ability to be impartial. If you don't believe me look through post history, or better yet ask your fellow Klit bum bandits. Either way I don't give a toss. Haye would not beat a prime Bruno, Mercer, those guys were true heavyweights, and had ability, you should learn more about those fighters before you comment, Briggs maybe it is a close one. Haye does not have the natural size to compete with some of these guys, he doesn't have the chin to deal with the version of Tyson Lewis fought even, and Golota is a handful, too much size for Haye.(your bias on Golota is obvious by the way). You are admitting that Golota could beat Haye, the same Golota that got blown out by a round by Lewis, and then when I tell you that Lewis would demolish Haye you mock? Pathetic I have absolutely no doubt that Lewis would beat Haye. Would he KO him, I don't know. Prime Lewis didn't KO Mavrovic and Haye is a better boxer. Haye's chin is not too good but it can cope quite well. And Haye is not that small - same size as Mavrovic for example. Golota is always a toss up. I actually think that this guy on his night could beat many great HW but I can see him loosing to Chisorra like fighter as well. I also can't see how that version of Tyson would land anything clear on Haye with Haye's speed. Haye that fought Wlad beats Bruno that fought Lewis every time!

Wlad - Haye was competitive :pat: The rest of your post is the parrot talk. Better division, bla bla, Lewis would this and that, bla bla... Boring :sleeping: All very subjective and written zillion times. Version of haye that fought Wlad would beat Briggs, Bruno, Mercer and be 50:50 with Golota (you never know with this guy - one hard punch he gave up), that version of Tyson is also 50:50. Would have lost to Holyfiled and Ruddock. First of all I said semi competitive, are you illiterate? Haye won probably 2 rounds, and there were quite a few close rounds. I am a big Haye fan, more of Haye fan than Lewis. I just know what I am looking at and have the ability to be impartial. If you don't believe me look through post history, or better yet ask your fellow Klit bum bandits. Either way I don't give a toss. Haye would not beat a prime Bruno, Mercer, those guys were true heavyweights, and had ability, you should learn more about those fighters before you comment, Briggs maybe it is a close one. Haye does not have the natural size to compete with some of these guys, he doesn't have the chin to deal with the version of Tyson Lewis fought even, and Golota is a handful, too much size for Haye.(your bias on Golota is obvious by the way). You are admitting that Golota could beat Haye, the same Golota that got blown out by a round by Lewis, and then when I tell you that Lewis would demolish Haye you mock? Pathetic

No matter what you say, Wlad's only win over a world class fighter is Haye in my opinion, Byrd would have been at best a gatekeeper in the previous era, and I don't actually think Haye would have made the jump up, heavyweight in the 90's or other previous era's would have been too competitive for him to compete in, he has actually said this himself. I think the following fighters are better heavyweights than Haye and Byrd when Lennox fought them. Ruddock, Briggs, Bruno, Holyfield, Tyson, Tua, Golota, Mercer You could arguably put another few names on that list. What do you honestly think Lewis would have done with Haye? He would have completely demolished him, it would not have lasted 6 rounds. Wlad-Haye was semi competitive, and Haye won rounds, Wlad only landed a handful of meaningful punches. Wlad - Haye was competitive :pat: The rest of your post is the parrot talk. Better division, bla bla, Lewis would this and that, bla bla... Boring :sleeping: All very subjective and written zillion times. Version of haye that fought Wlad would beat Briggs, Bruno, Mercer and be 50:50 with Golota (you never know with this guy - one hard punch he gave up), that version of Tyson is also 50:50. Would have lost to Holyfiled and Ruddock.

Lewis W. Klitschko Tyson V. Klitschko Liston Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

We can see what you base your opinions on. I noticed your list of favorite fighters all had something in common.:nono: You need to learn to evaluate boxers more objectively. What HOF does Wlad have? Tyson has Holmes & Spinks. You're the one who should think more objectively instead of letting your bias for wlad cloud your judgement.

To the TS Lewis Liston Tyson Wlad Vitali Tyson and Wlad are quite close but Tyson's wins over Spinks and Bruno are better than Wlads over Haye and Byrd. Plus his wins over Ruddock are probably the best of the rest. Other than that it is pretty nip and tuck

I said I might be wrong in some aspects - but I am interested in the general picture. Although I don't give Lennox too much credit for beating that version of Tyson - people do see it as the one of the biggest Lennox's wins. Also I think Lennox himself regards that as one of the biggest. I do agree win over Rudock is better one. No matter what you say, Wlad's only win over a world class fighter is Haye in my opinion, Byrd would have been at best a gatekeeper in the previous era, and I don't actually think Haye would have made the jump up, heavyweight in the 90's or other previous era's would have been too competitive for him to compete in, he has actually said this himself. I think the following fighters are better heavyweights than Haye and Byrd when Lennox fought them. Ruddock, Briggs, Bruno, Holyfield, Tyson, Tua, Golota, Mercer You could arguably put another few names on that list. What do you honestly think Lewis would have done with Haye? He would have completely demolished him, it would not have lasted 6 rounds. Wlad-Haye was semi competitive, and Haye won rounds, Wlad only landed a handful of meaningful punches.

Intrested to see your reasoning on having Lewis win over Tyson and his win over Razor Ruddock as the same score. Lewis win over Ruddock, where he was expected to lose by a long list of people, and ended up destroying him is a lot better than his win over Mike Tyson's corpse. I said I might be wrong in some aspects - but I am interested in the general picture. Although I don't give Lennox too much credit for beating that version of Tyson - people do see it as the one of the biggest Lennox's wins. Also I think Lennox himself regards that as one of the biggest. I do agree win over Rudock is better one.

I'll give it a go. Of course I don't say I have to be right, but this is just how I see it. Lewis lost 2 times and 1 draw, Wlad lost 3 times. Lewis has 41wins (32 KO, 72% KO), Wlad has 58 wins (51KO, 83% KO). So not going in details at the moment, looking just the numbers, at very worst (for Wlad) they are equal - but actually it looks better for Wlad (yes Lewis opposition is better). I chose 10 notable Lennox's and Wlad's wins (arguably 10 best wins). In squares there is the record of the opponent when they fought with the age of the fighter (this could be some indication how far from the prime opponent was - not too accurate). I gave a mark for every fight. I took into account the time when they fought, how fight ended and the quality of the opponent at that time. Lennox : Holyfiled (36-3-1, 37) - UD 8-4 --> 9 Golota (28-2 , 29) - KO2 --> 9 Bruno (36-3, 32) - TKO7 --> 7 Vitali (32-1 ,32) - TKO6 --> 7 Rahman (35-2, 29) - KO4 --> 7 Briggs (30-1 , 27) - TKO5 --> 7 Tua (37-1, 28) - UD 10-2 --> 8 Morrison (45-2-1, 26) - TKO6 --> 7 Tyson (49-3-2, 36) - KO8 --> 7 Rudock (27-3-1, 31) - TKO2 --> 7 Wlad : Haye (25-1, 29) UD 7-3 --> 8 Byrd (39-2-1, 30 and 36) - UD and TKO7 --> 7 Peter (24 - 0, 25) UD --> 7 Brewster (30 -2 ,31) TKO6 --> 7 Ibragimov (22-0-1, 32) UD 10-2 --> 7 Botha (44-3-1, 33) TKO8 --> 7 Chambers (35 - 1, 28) KO12 --> 7 Thomson (31-1, 37) KO11 --> 7 Chagaev (25-0-1, 30) TKO9 --> 7 Brock (29-0,31) TKO7 --> 7 Lennox 75, Wlad 71 Wlad is still active. I think he has a decent chance to be on pair (or even pass) Lennox resume in 3-4 years time. Intrested to see your reasoning on having Lewis win over Tyson and his win over Razor Ruddock as the same score. Lewis win over Ruddock, where he was expected to lose by a long list of people, and ended up destroying him is a lot better than his win over Mike Tyson's corpse.

We can see what you base your opinions on. I noticed your list of favorite fighters all had something in common.:nono: You need to learn to evaluate boxers more objectively. From what I can see, he's broken down his view on Liston. And very well I might add. Your statement that his only wins of note are his two wins against Floyd Patterson are absurd and frankly, out an out false.

No particular order. Briggs Holyfield V. Klitschko Rahman Ruddock Mercer Golota Morrison Bruno McCall Tua Tucker Tyson Mavrovic Botha Sure some are past prime but there are some very solid wins on there that trump Wlads. not only did he fight better opposition he lost less and avenged his only 2 defeats with stoppage victorys something Wlad never managed to do. I really don't see how you can make a case for Wlads resume being particularly close. I'll give it a go. Of course I don't say I have to be right, but this is just how I see it. Lewis lost 2 times and 1 draw, Wlad lost 3 times. Lewis has 41wins (32 KO, 72% KO), Wlad has 58 wins (51KO, 83% KO). So not going in details at the moment, looking just the numbers, at very worst (for Wlad) they are equal - but actually it looks better for Wlad (yes Lewis opposition is better). I chose 10 notable Lennox's and Wlad's wins (arguably 10 best wins). In squares there is the record of the opponent when they fought with the age of the fighter (this could be some indication how far from the prime opponent was - not too accurate). I gave a mark for every fight. I took into account the time when they fought, how fight ended and the quality of the opponent at that time. Lennox : Holyfiled (36-3-1, 37) - UD 8-4 --> 9 Golota (28-2 , 29) - KO2 --> 9 Bruno (36-3, 32) - TKO7 --> 7 Vitali (32-1 ,32) - TKO6 --> 7 Rahman (35-2, 29) - KO4 --> 7 Briggs (30-1 , 27) - TKO5 --> 7 Tua (37-1, 28) - UD 10-2 --> 8 Morrison (45-2-1, 26) - TKO6 --> 7 Tyson (49-3-2, 36) - KO8 --> 7 Rudock (27-3-1, 31) - TKO2 --> 7 Wlad : Haye (25-1, 29) UD 7-3 --> 8 Byrd (39-2-1, 30 and 36) - UD and TKO7 --> 7 Peter (24 - 0, 25) UD --> 7 Brewster (30 -2 ,31) TKO6 --> 7 Ibragimov (22-0-1, 32) UD 10-2 --> 7 Botha (44-3-1, 33) TKO8 --> 7 Chambers (35 - 1, 28) KO12 --> 7 Thomson (31-1, 37) KO11 --> 7 Chagaev (25-0-1, 30) TKO9 --> 7 Brock (29-0,31) TKO7 --> 7 Lennox 75, Wlad 71 Wlad is still active. I think he has a decent chance to be on pair (or even pass) Lennox resume in 3-4 years time.

1. Liston 2. Tyson 3. Lewis 4. Wlad 5. Vitali

Please do. Include the whole resumes. I think Lewis resume is better but only just. I see it much closer than most of people that's why I am interested to hear about this. No particular order. Briggs Holyfield V. Klitschko Rahman Ruddock Mercer Golota Morrison Bruno McCall Tua Tucker Tyson Mavrovic Botha Sure some are past prime but there are some very solid wins on there that trump Wlads. not only did he fight better opposition he lost less and avenged his only 2 defeats with stoppage victorys something Wlad never managed to do. I really don't see how you can make a case for Wlads resume being particularly close.