How many FULL Ray Robinson fights have you seen?

um as someone has already pointed out, robinson was an offensive minded fighter. lol robinson didn't have the footwork, let alone foot speed and reflexes to execute the gameplan leonard did (who danced most of the fight and still got a detached retina lol). the only way he could beat hearns if he lured him into a wild brawl like hagler. but looking at the footage, robinson will most likely get killed if he tried this strategy. the only thing going for him is an improbable puncher's chance. robinson is no hagler. But he does have the chin and power of him with better speed. Granted hagler could switch hit and all that but robinsons ring iq was at least equal. This fight would either be a quick ko for tommy or a brutal ko for Robinson

Well that's idiotic thinking. winning the gg is how you get to the nationals. Maybe the novice division is a tough man competition but the opens are the real deal. Not only that but you don't see it as an accomplishment? WFT What have you ever accomplished? Lol I've sparred with pros and amateurs from boxing and kickboxing. A majority of the guys are nothing special. I've gotten the better and the worse of whatever they had. Why do people put fighters on pedestals? I mean it's not like you're training Andre Ward. I could train someone with the knowledge I have. In fact, when I've gone and watched Golden Gloves I couldn't believe how unrefined they were. I was actually appalled at the lack of fundamentals. As for my accomplishments, I have nothing really boxing related. But my passion isn't fighting with the gloves, I just happen to love the science. Eventually I'm gonna have to get in the ring for some credibility. I'm not trying to be the best in the world, I'm just trying to learn one day at a time.

just cause...... dont flame me!!! lol

i'm not saying that you dont spend time around boxing. i am saying that as you spend time around boxing you should learn and evolve. a refusal to make any sort of turn around on ray robinson, the man considered to the be consensus GOAT by virtually everybody, is not a good thing. it's also abundantly clear that you didn't think robinson was well filmed, and that you hadn't seen a ton of his fights. is everybody else wrong about him, from the historians to informed fans? i'll also say this, i dont like to call rank, but i've read more and seen more film of fighters from the past (let's say pre 1960,) in the last five years than you've ever seen in your life. i know you well enough to be very confident of that. some opinions are worth more than others.Well yours is not one of them. You seem rather insecure.

Before either of you go any further Golden Gloves is ****ing glorified tufman competitions. It had it's purpose back in the day but with the lack of talent in boxing and the lack of people who truly put the time and dedication to the sport I don't see it as an accomplishment. On topic, a lot of them. He was truly something special. I don't he his mechanical skills as good as Joe Louis, but he clearly had the instincts and other intangibles that made him an amazing fighter. Well that's idiotic thinking. winning the gg is how you get to the nationals. Maybe the novice division is a tough man competition but the opens are the real deal. Not only that but you don't see it as an accomplishment? WFT What have you ever accomplished?

Before either of you go any further Golden Gloves is ****ing glorified tufman competitions. It had it's purpose back in the day but with the lack of talent in boxing and the lack of people who truly put the time and dedication to the sport I don't see it as an accomplishment. On topic, a lot of them. He was truly something special. I don't he his mechanical skills as good as Joe Louis, but he clearly had the instincts and other intangibles that made him an amazing fighter.

Oh really? I had 2 GG champions in my first year as a trainer and a national competitor in my 2nd. I've been to Lake Placid for tournaments and all your opinions are based on lies that have already been exposed in this thread. Name 1 thing you ever did in boxing? Golden gloves champions? Anybody/I could easily type out a list of lies/false achievements and whilst I respect trainers putting the effort into boxing, most don't belong in boxing and are utterly clueless. Champion swimmer who never stepped into a pool & all that. What are the names of said Golden Gloves champions you trained?

I dedicate my life to boxing, I get tired of hearing armchair experts such as yourself trying to belittle people online for having a different opinion to theirs usually under silly fake profiles. I come on here to put my feet up after grafting all day & working my ass off in the gym to find out news, debate and learn not to have some punk call me silly names & try belittle me behind a keyboard. If everyone shared the same opinions then there would be no need for forums. You don't have an opinion you have a belief based on lies and false not to mention laughable assumptions.

I have not intended any offense but there's a lesson that has to be learned here and it is that with a terribly one-sided argument any single fighter who ever lived can be torn down to nothing and I've personally seen it happen many times. I've argued for and against Robinson in different type of discussions but the main thing that has to be kept in mind is to take both the strengths and weaknesses into account and acknowledge the other person's arguments if they have valid facts behind them. When people get too caught up on trying to prove their point "correct", they eventually start getting to the point of being unnecessarily disrespectful to the fighter in question. It's just that you've gone to great lengths to tear the man's legacy down by discrediting nearly every single thing he ever accomplished which is why it's getting difficult to take the argument seriously. There's valid criticms there but they've been drowned among the not so credible ones. The fact is that when a man has fought 200 times over several decades against the top ranked men of his time, he has earned his reputation and while it's arguable that Robinson may not be the greatest fighter of all time, there is absolutely no question that he was one of the very best of them.

Oh get off your high horse ffs, I've got my opinion, you've got yours. Personally I think I am a bit more credible than some pompous armchair expert with a chip on his shoulder, not even fit enough to hold a spit bucket for Ray Corso. Oh really? I had 2 GG champions in my first year as a trainer and a national competitor in my 2nd. I've been to Lake Placid for tournaments and all your opinions are based on lies that have already been exposed in this thread. Name 1 thing you ever did in boxing?

Haha no he just thinks he's some kind of evolved athlete/person in general and needs to come on here and stroke his ego. I dedicate my life to boxing, I get tired of hearing armchair experts such as yourself trying to belittle people online for having a different opinion to theirs usually under silly fake profiles. I come on here to put my feet up after grafting all day & working my ass off in the gym to find out news, debate and learn not to have some punk call me silly names & try belittle me behind a keyboard. If everyone shared the same opinions then there would be no need for forums.

If Pep considered Sugarman the best why would anyone be concerned what you (dan_cov) think!!! As I've stated before the films are there they don't lie all you need to know is...........BOXING!! Obviously your in need of attention and argueing that the best fighter in boxings history wasn't the best is a good way to get some needed attention. I guess the Klitz Bros are both more accomplished than Joe Louis also? :kabong: Ray. Haha no he just thinks he's some kind of evolved athlete/person in general and needs to come on here and stroke his ego.

He had near 20 losses but he only lost once in his first 120 or so fights idiot. We know you think you're superior and more evolved then anyone born before 1970 but you're not. Get over it. The only thing that's laughable is your view on the subject Oh get off your high horse ffs, I've got my opinion, you've got yours. Personally I think I am a bit more credible than some pompous armchair expert with a chip on his shoulder, not even fit enough to hold a spit bucket for Ray Corso.

How can the man be the GOAT when his best wins are against faded opposition with near 20 losses? He lost to Randolph Turpin & didn't exactly sparkle in the rematch, Randolph Turpin with all due respect was average at best but apparently because he beat Sugar Ray, he was amazeballs! Oh and don't forget folks, he won so this means Sugar Ray was passed his prime lol Same with Gene Fullmer - Robinson was shot. He beat Jake LaMotta about 12 times, why did he fight him 10 times or more? That is the modern day equivalent to Wlad rematching Tony Thompson another 10 times! Holly Mims - 20-8-4 record against bums and he was a beast? Robinsons resume is almost laughable. The only thing remotely impressive the guy did was beat a faded Henry Armstrong He had near 20 losses but he only lost once in his first 120 or so fights idiot. We know you think you're superior and more evolved then anyone born before 1970 but you're not. Get over it. The only thing that's laughable is your view on the subject

man im just wondering how a guy who WAS the best and Was DOMINATING EVERYONE WAS SO PAST HIS PRIME AT 32...seriously he hadnt taken any beatings so how was he so past it at 32? Hagler was past it at 32. It happens especially when you have over 100 fights plus people weren't as healthy then and didn't live as long.

You can't even debate with these historians, they just go on like they was there and twist the truths until they see fit. You only have to look at how dates miraculously change, weights, venues and such As if it wasn't bad enough the likes of these old managers padding their fighters records with fights that actually never happened (Harry Greb, Ezzard Charles & the likes), you now have these ''historians'' going their best to brainwash people and trying to change history by not only making stuff up but by editing Wikipedia & various other sites with their clutter they label as ''facts'' You can't debate when you're attacked by 18 all of who claim to of held Sugar Rays jockstrap & massaged his feet. After being banned from the history section for disagreeing with a certain mod, I can no longer be ar5ed to debate, just let them create their own version of events. At the end of the war Cocoa Kid, Kid Tunero, Holman Williams, Charley Burley, Lloyd Marshall, Archie Moore & the likes were all 150-160 Yet The GOAT Sugar Ray Robinson didn't fight a single one over a 3 year period. Despite being called out on numerous occasions he fluctuated, fighting the weakest of the era, letting the best fight the best & take lumps out of each other, until they was completely shot or retired would he move up full time.LOL That's exactly what you tried to do until you got owned now you're running around butt hurt trying to save face.

Since you guys are talking old school. I figured I'd post a few comparison pics of my vintage Flores 6 oz. fight gloves, a brand Robinson has been known to use in a few of his fights. Flores 6 oz./Grant and Everlast 10 oz. http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee393/rskbreaker/IMG_6150.jpg http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee393/rskbreaker/IMG_6149.jpg http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee393/rskbreaker/IMG_6148.jpg Top to bottom 6/8/10 oz. Flores gloves. http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee393/rskbreaker/0f8fdf56.jpg LOL Floyds brittle hands wouldn't last 1 round in those gloves

I'd suggest you watch the ENTIRE fight and not just the highlights: Leonard spent the last two-thirds of that fight stalking Hearns like a slugger. It was Hearns who was on the bicycle trying to dance behind his jab. Got to love these dipsh1ts that run their cum dumpsters and don't even watch the damn fights. Poet :lol1:.......... lol at him saying rr didn't have the footwork. who the **** do these guys think ali was emulating? who in turn was emulated leonard, who in turn was emulated by jones and mayweather.

I think we have to listen to the self-proclaimed "Greatest" here: Robinson rocking Bobby Dykes to his boots while going backwards: 6:45

spend time around it???man im 31 and boxed since i was 12..see how you try to judge people you know 0 about???my son boxes,i love the sport so save your blind judgements and just agree to disagree i'm not saying that you dont spend time around boxing. i am saying that as you spend time around boxing you should learn and evolve. a refusal to make any sort of turn around on ray robinson, the man considered to the be consensus GOAT by virtually everybody, is not a good thing. it's also abundantly clear that you didn't think robinson was well filmed, and that you hadn't seen a ton of his fights. is everybody else wrong about him, from the historians to informed fans? i'll also say this, i dont like to call rank, but i've read more and seen more film of fighters from the past (let's say pre 1960,) in the last five years than you've ever seen in your life. i know you well enough to be very confident of that. some opinions are worth more than others.