The winner of Ward-Dawson is no worse than #3 p4p?

I'd say so. I actually have Pac way down on the p4p rankings. My rankings would be 1. Floyd 2. JMM 3. The winner of Ward/Dawson 4. Martinez 5. Pac I don't see how anyone can have Pac in the top 2 spots. Time to stop living in the past and look at who he has beat and how he has beat them. It has been a very long time since I said wow, that guy is the best or the second best fighter in the world. Good list however Donair and or Klit has done more than Pac. Outside of the 2009 CW win over Cotto, Pac hasn't accomplished anything. Hell, Hopkins and Froch have accomplished more than Pac since 2009.

Pacquiao sons........... :bsflag: Manny is not even top 5. lol

well thats not true, dawsons resume is clearly better than wards. adamek, harding, tarver x2, hopkins, johnson x2, diaconu.. some of them might be old but they better than most of the guys ward fought even if they were younger. froch is the only win on wards resume that holds up to hopkins, tarver, adamek and johnson. who else has ward beat on that level? abraham? kessler? bika? miranda? all good wins dont get me wrong, but not a single one as great as dawsons' seven or eight best wins. ward has a very good resume, dawsons is significantly better. #1Assassin this is a good post...much respect, regarding Chad Dawson's previous competition...

I think Floyd has beat everybody he's had to beat "while he was active." Mosley, Ortiz, even Baldomir we're all top ranked fighters at welterweight when he fought them. I personally feel he should've fought Cotto in 2008 but we can't change that. I don't blame him for not fighting Margarito because the biggest thing Margs in known for at this point is for being a cheater. You can't compare Andre Ward's best weight class to Mayweather's worse. Mayweather came up 5 divisions so you can't blame him for not fighting everybody at 154. Ward has only came up once since beginning his career. I get what you're saying, but I still have to disagree. IMO it's safe to say that Baldomir may have beaten Judah & ranked higher, but absolutely no one realistically can say he was better than Margarito. Also Mosley was ranked #3 but was the lineal champ but Pacman was also the better fighter there. (Although Floyd alone cannot be blamed for that particular fiasco). Ward however dominated everyone at 168 worth their accolades. (Bute was no worth his at all). All in all, I do understand what you're saying I just believe the situations to be quite different.

He has beat better comp...Dawson went on a senior citizen tour and lost to Pacal well thats not true, dawsons resume is clearly better than wards. adamek, harding, tarver x2, hopkins, johnson x2, diaconu.. some of them might be old but they better than most of the guys ward fought even if they were younger. froch is the only win on wards resume that holds up to hopkins, tarver, adamek and johnson. who else has ward beat on that level? abraham? kessler? bika? miranda? all good wins dont get me wrong, but not a single one as great as dawsons' seven or eight best wins. ward has a very good resume, dawsons is significantly better.

I respectfully disagree. This is absolutely not the same as in Floyd's case. Ward beat the best fighters at 168, period. No one can argue that. It can however be argued that Floyd did not beat the best fighters at both 154/147. Quite easily I might add. I think Floyd has beat everybody he's had to beat "while he was active." Mosley, Ortiz, even Baldomir we're all top ranked fighters at welterweight when he fought them. I personally feel he should've fought Cotto in 2008 but we can't change that. I don't blame him for not fighting Margarito because the biggest thing Margs in known for at this point is for being a cheater. You can't compare Andre Ward's best weight class to Mayweather's worse. Mayweather came up 5 divisions so you can't blame him for not fighting everybody at 154. Ward has only came up once since beginning his career.

Yeah I hate that argument. People use the same argument for Mayweather. The entire idea of you not deserving credit for a win simply because you're better than a guy is stupid. What better way can you prove you're better than somebody than by beating them? I respectfully disagree. This is absolutely not the same as in Floyd's case. Ward beat the best fighters at 168, period. No one can argue that. It can however be argued that Floyd did not beat the best fighters at both 154/147. Quite easily I might add.

Yeah I hate that argument. People use the same argument for Mayweather. The entire idea of you not deserving credit for a win simply because you're better than a guy is stupid. What better way can you prove you're better than somebody than by beating them? You can only beat the best competition available, and Ward's certainly done that. I'm with you two, judging him by whether he fought opponents better than him is stupid. Considering he's fought everyone available and is undefeated, maybe he's just better than everyone? Shouldn't he a lot of credit for that?

@johnwoo I agree. if he beat the best as you put it then he shouldn't have had no problem to meet Chad at 175 if he is the best at 168. He's done at 168. He should really challenge himself. Don't use the argument that Chad called him out at 168 only. As far as I'm concerned ward had three options according to the post interview. He took the most convenient option. But I digress... Ward hasn't faced a talented boxer with skill to match at least recently. I believe you are only as good as your last fight... It goes for both Dawson and ward... In this case Dawson has faced better technical fighter than ward. Thoughts? Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

Maybe on paper Kessler was, or better yet to the untrained eye he was. I said way back before the Super 6 started that Kessler was overrated. I mean I give the guy props for his limited accomplishments, He was decent. A good solid win over Froch. Lopsided loss to Calzaghe.. Never really impressed me. Before the Tourney I had Ward winning it undefeated. Just my opinion on seeing him come up the ranks on Showtime. Forget the level of opposition he fought before the super 6, It's the Way he made it look when he won. I knew he would be a star. So even though he won a gold medal, hasn't lost since he was 12, and leading up to the Super 6 DOMINATED everybody he fought, him being a rookie he was still considered an underdog? He went through Kessler like I knew he would, beat his substitutes just as easily, dominated Abraham in an easy fight, and Dominated Froch in an easy fight that I thought the scorecards were crooked. Idk, Either way Dawson is a way more credible win than Kessler or Froch. Even at 168.. If Ward does it impressively, I could put him at an easy number 2. just my opinion You're preaching to the choir bro.

What you hate the argument you are only as good as your opposition.? Please debate? Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android People hate that argument because it's all subjective. Ward has faced the best 168 has to offer, PERIOD. You want to downgrade him simply because he's better than the guys he's been facing? The guy has practically dominated the best guys in one of toughest divisions of the sport and for that he should be regarded as a top 5 p4p fighter regardless if you think his competition was tough enough. Because it doesn't get much tougher than 168.

Look... On paper Kessler was great Abraham was great... Truth be told they were overrated. I get it that the media and some fans had them as favorites. They weren't mine. Dirrell and ward were mine... And I had dirrell winning it had it for not been thesucker punch. To the other dude... They were overrated. It's clear to that any boxer who boxed and had movement against Kessler and Abraham would've won. Just my opinion. Don't get emotional Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android I always thought ward and dirrell were the best also but just because Kessler and Abraham lost to Ward don't mean they aren't good or overrated. Maybe Ward was underrated going into the tournament.

Dawson has the more notable names on his resume, but having 3 rematches goes to show how shallow the talent pool is/was at LHW. Does Dawson get a P4P boost if he wins? Of course. How high a boost he gets will depend on the individual making the P4P list.

Apologies for the bad typing the Mobil app doesn't help... Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

What you hate the argument you are only as good as your opposition.? Please debate? Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

Look... On paper Kessler was great Abraham was great... Truth be told they were overrated. I get it that the media and some fans had them as favorites. They weren't mine. Dirrell and ward were mine... And I had dirrell winning it had it for not been thesucker punch. To the other dude... They were overrated. It's clear to that any boxer who boxed and had movement against Kessler and Abraham would've won. Just my opinion. Don't get emotional Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

I'm sorry... Ward is only as good as his opposition and the only notable wins in my opinion is froch and maybe bika. Abraham, Kessler, Green didn't have the boxing skills and knowledge to beat ward. Let's be fair, Dawson on the other hand has fought solid boxers although aged, in Tarver, Johnson, and Hopkins. The bull has been a chasing these cats for years... When Dawson was where ward is at today. I'd say they are about even with respect to the last few years with a slight edge for Dawson. Plus gets more points for hitting holms up at his weight and backyard. I'd write off the pascal loss and call it a fluke. Any... Dawson is better than ward. Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android What the hell are you talking about? Kessler has more boxing skills then Froch and Bika. Because Ward has more boxing skills than his opponents hurts his ranking lmao That makes zero sense. Being more skilled helps your ranking atleast in the mind of someone with ANY common sense. Kessler and Abraham were the Super 6 favorites and Ward made easy work of them.

What a stupid post, so because Abraham, Kessler and Green lacked the skill to beat Ward those victories shouldn't be acknowledged? Yeah I hate that argument. People use the same argument for Mayweather. The entire idea of you not deserving credit for a win simply because you're better than a guy is stupid. What better way can you prove you're better than somebody than by beating them?

P4P is basically a mythical list to decide how these guys would match up against each other if they were all the same size. For those of you having a hard time making your list try to imagine all these guys as being the same size and having them all fight one another. Who do you think would be the last man standing? My list is Mayweather Pacquiao Ward Martinez Donaire

I'm sorry... Ward is only as good as his opposition and the only notable wins in my opinion is froch and maybe bika. Abraham, Kessler, Green didn't have the boxing skills and knowledge to beat ward. Let's be fair, Dawson on the other hand has fought solid boxers although aged, in Tarver, Johnson, and Hopkins. The bull has been a chasing these cats for years... When Dawson was where ward is at today. I'd say they are about even with respect to the last few years with a slight edge for Dawson. Plus gets more points for hitting holms up at his weight and backyard. I'd write off the pascal loss and call it a fluke. Any... Dawson is better than ward. Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android What a stupid post, so because Abraham, Kessler and Green lacked the skill to beat Ward those victories shouldn't be acknowledged?