Why do people get so angry when you tell the truth about the ATGs?

I don't know if you noticed but a lightweight can sell out stadiums today still, a filipino one even. As I've said, it's all about name value. Am I expecting every fight to sell out super stadiums? No of course not, but I do expect every baseball game and football match to sell out stadiums. Boxing can't do that, because it is and always will be a much smaller than both sports outside the big names. Boxing takes place in an arena, football belongs in stadiums. When football takes place in an arena and boxing takes place in stadiums, only then will boxing be bigger. Boxing today only has a small number of fighters today who can sell out massively, back then it had so much more, the fact that there were far more emphasis on gyms and boxing clubs meant that boxing was far more frequently watched by a larger percentage of the population, fighting towns like Pittsburgh would have local rivalries as with the case of Zivic-Conn which sold out the arena it was on and almost caused a riot as hundreds were turned away. This doesn't give a clear image but if you search for boxing gyms around New York City on Google maps you get over 2000 results. Sure there's bound to be MMA and Muay Thai gyms mixed in there. This site here lists something around 100 gyms that teach boxing in New York: http://www.boxinggyms.com/addresses/newyork.htm And also you're ignoring the main thing every one else has been ignoring from the start of this debate, the giant elephant in the room: BOXING IS NOW MUCH BIGGER WORLD WIDE. China, Eastern Europe and India are pretty much brand new inductees to the sport. The UK and Ireland now have more dedication to boxing than ever before. Back in the days of Barry McGuiggan boxing gyms were shoddy, these days in Ireland there's at least 2 advanced gyms in every town. Even Middle Eastern countries have recently been getting more into it. South Africa is also seeing a strong boxing boom right now. Boxing is taught in over 2000 secondary schools in the UK. The US could run completely out of boxers and there'd still be more boxers than ever before. It makes no sense for there to be less when there are now countries that had almost zero boxing culture participating on the world stage these days. Even womens boxing has seen a huge boom and there seem to be more amateur boxers than ever before. To talk about the pros, thanks to Pacman there are even more Filipinos than ever turning pro because they want to emulate him. You're forgetting that America still holds the monopoly of population on boxing, embarrassingly America produces more heavyweights than almost all the Eastern European nations put together, the fact that at least 6'000 less boxers than there used to be is a huge detriment to the sport. I live in the UK and i dont see this great boxing boom apart from a few fighters unless of course you count the whole olympics spirit which is going to die out anyway. and what Indian, Chinese pro fighters have you noticed? most people in the UK have probably never heard of Floyd Mayweather before.

Its fanboys on both sides and both sides think they are better than the other. Its entertaining to read.

How many fights today would sell out large scale stadiums apart from May- Pac, because The fact that a lightweight was able to headline more times than any other in a record that still holds today should show you the extent of boxing's popularity. It was boxing that brought MSG to the limelight and Fritzie Zivic vs Henry Armstrong still holds the record for attendance and of course only big name fighters would sell out, just like the big superbowl games and so forth would sell. Are you expecting every boxing fight to sell out super stadiums? As for the Lewiston Maine fight, it was hosted there because of a necessity, the fight couldn't handle another postponement and also there was a lot of fear surrounding that fight due to Nation of Islam and so forth, it is a mark of boxings popularity that politics and boxing in that time were so intertwined. Yes i know there were other sports but were they more popular than boxing through? . Steven Reiss, a professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago, wrote, “By the start of 1913 there were 89 boxing clubs in the state of New York, including 49 in New York City” There were over 20 boxing shows a week in New York City during this period. In 1994 there were only 19 during the whole year Consider for example that in 1927 there were 2,000 licensed professional boxers residing in the state of New York, and that over 900 boxing shows were promoted throughout the state. In 2006 the state licensed 50 pro boxers and staged just 38 shows. Or that during the 1920’s and 1930’s approximately 8,000 – 10,000 professional boxers were licensed annually in the U.S., while in 2006 that figure had dropped to 2,850 http://www.mikesilverboxing.com/works.htm I don't know if you noticed but a lightweight can sell out stadiums today still, a filipino one even. As I've said, it's all about name value. Am I expecting every fight to sell out super stadiums? No of course not, but I do expect every baseball game and football match to sell out stadiums. Boxing can't do that, because it is and always will be a much smaller than both sports outside the big names. Boxing takes place in an arena, football belongs in stadiums. When football takes place in an arena and boxing takes place in stadiums, only then will boxing be bigger. This doesn't give a clear image but if you search for boxing gyms around New York City on Google maps you get over 2000 results. Sure there's bound to be MMA and Muay Thai gyms mixed in there. This site here lists something around 100 gyms that teach boxing in New York: http://www.boxinggyms.com/addresses/newyork.htm And also you're ignoring the main thing every one else has been ignoring from the start of this debate, the giant elephant in the room: BOXING IS NOW MUCH BIGGER WORLD WIDE. China, Eastern Europe and India are pretty much brand new inductees to the sport. The UK and Ireland now have more dedication to boxing than ever before. Back in the days of Barry McGuiggan boxing gyms were shoddy, these days in Ireland there's at least 2 advanced gyms in every town. Even Middle Eastern countries have recently been getting more into it. South Africa is also seeing a strong boxing boom right now. Boxing is taught in over 2000 secondary schools in the UK. The US could run completely out of boxers and there'd still be more boxers than ever before. It makes no sense for there to be less when there are now countries that had almost zero boxing culture participating on the world stage these days. Even womens boxing has seen a huge boom and there seem to be more amateur boxers than ever before. To talk about the pros, thanks to Pacman there are even more Filipinos than ever turning pro because they want to emulate him.

LMAO ayo REAL TALK if gatti ward fought in black and white they would be called ATG'S I was watching a Gatti tribute vid the other day. In it Atlas speaks about Gatti: "It was a different time then, a time when fighters showed in the ring. We don't see that anymore these days." Gatti fought till ****ing 2007! Atlas can't even compliment a single modern fighter without single handedly ripping into every other fighter out there. He's a ****ing ***** and a joke. All he does is **** on every aspect of the sport.

LMAO ayo REAL TALK if gatti ward fought in black and white they would be called ATG'S what fighter is regarded as an ATG that is on ward's level? please enlighten me? you won't though.

MSG isn't a large scale stadium, and the stadiums Jack did appear in were for the most part in the 18k range. And still we're on the same page as before, only names sell the fights. I know the reason the fight was in maine. The point is you wouldn't have a super bowl final or major league baseball game with such a small crowd. A consistently huge sport should be played in stadiums, not small arenas. Someday Mayweather-Pac might sell our 100k seats or whatever in Yankee stadium, should historians look back and assume boxing was the biggest sport? Other sports? You know American football was around then right? Then there's horse racing, stock car racing, baseball. Plenty of the sports around today were available back then. They didn't just appear out of nowhere. Even cricket had a good following in the US back then. How many fights today would sell out large scale stadiums apart from May- Pac, because The fact that a lightweight was able to headline more times than any other in a record that still holds today should show you the extent of boxing's popularity. It was boxing that brought MSG to the limelight and Fritzie Zivic vs Henry Armstrong still holds the record for attendance and of course only big name fighters would sell out, just like the big superbowl games and so forth would sell. Are you expecting every boxing fight to sell out super stadiums? As for the Lewiston Maine fight, it was hosted there because of a necessity, the fight couldn't handle another postponement and also there was a lot of fear surrounding that fight due to Nation of Islam and so forth, it is a mark of boxings popularity that politics and boxing in that time were so intertwined. Yes i know there were other sports but were they more popular than boxing through? . Steven Reiss, a professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago, wrote, “By the start of 1913 there were 89 boxing clubs in the state of New York, including 49 in New York City” There were over 20 boxing shows a week in New York City during this period. In 1994 there were only 19 during the whole year Consider for example that in 1927 there were 2,000 licensed professional boxers residing in the state of New York, and that over 900 boxing shows were promoted throughout the state. In 2006 the state licensed 50 pro boxers and staged just 38 shows. Or that during the 1920’s and 1930’s approximately 8,000 – 10,000 professional boxers were licensed annually in the U.S., while in 2006 that figure had dropped to 2,850 http://www.mikesilverboxing.com/works.htm

There's nothing wrong with saying Hearns had a weak chin because it's true. I wouldn't say Hearns had a weak chin, it was pretty much average but not what I call weak. It took SRL a gazillion punches to stop Hearns and he didn't properly knock him out. The first time he got properly knocked out was in his 3rd division against an ATG.

It's almost like people give them too much credit, they forget that these guys are/were human. As much as I love Tommy Hearns, I still have to admit that when he got hurt he stayed hurt (When it counted). But I get attacked for saying that as if it's not the truth. Ray Robbinson loaded up on his right hand way to much, he was also very wide (But he could do that because he was much faster than who he fought). Speaking of "Who Ray fought"..... His over 100 KOs are always brought up, but has anyone ever really focused on just WHO these guys were? It's not like he was fighting Lamatta night in and night out to get those KOs. Most those guys were straight up garbage men/cab drivers just getting off work. I'm not bashing the old timers, I just realise that they are human (Not the SUPER DUPER TROOPERS people seem to make them) Am I wrong for that? There's nothing wrong with saying Hearns had a weak chin because it's true. But I haven't seen anyone get angry over this. I don't think anyone in history has 100 knock outs over elite level competition, what matters is the few fighters you beat that are really great that add to your legacy. SRR isn't a great fighter solely because he got 100 knockouts, this just an amazing fact that complements his great achievements.

so we go from discussing boxing and a man's legacy to personally attacking and insulting me outside of the Thunder dome. Just because you don't agree with my views on a certain fighters? Actually, we are still discussing boxing, you just stated something which was completely and utterly wrong, so I pointed out how stupid you were to say it, everything I said was completely relevant and true. You are spreading a lie. Now you are refusing to reply to the points I made because you can't. It was nice owning you.

lol @ people saying "imagine what people would say if floyd fought so and so" if he charged 70 bucks on ppv yeah the public would get pissed. but if it was announced as a stay busy/exhibition fight and shown for free on abc or some ****, no one would care. different times.

Who were these guys with losing records knocking him out left and right? Please inform me. You are thick as **** to bring that up, he was knocked out by one fighter with a losing record when he was near 40 years old, blind in one eye and a veteran of over 200 fights (in other words utterly shot to pieces) - how the **** does that take away from his legacy? He was stopped a total of 9 times, with 7 of those when he was washed up, past the age of thirty and blind in one eye. You should shut the **** up when you don't know what you are talking about. Clueless moron. Mike Silver - The Arc of Boxing. so we go from discussing boxing and a man's legacy to personally attacking and insulting me outside of the Thunder dome. Just because you don't agree with my views on a certain fighters? reported, behavior like this shouldn't be tolerated "Name Calling and Abuse Name calling and general abuse towards other posters will be dealt with harshly. and please keep your abusive Karma messages to yourself

LMAO ayo REAL TALK if gatti ward fought in black and white they would be called ATG'S

I don't think highly of Sam Langford..... getting knocked out by guys with losing records left and right =/= ATG to me. Even if he got lucky and beat an over the hill Joe Gans Who were these guys with losing records knocking him out left and right? Please inform me. You are thick as **** to bring that up, he was knocked out by one fighter with a losing record when he was near 40 years old, blind in one eye and a veteran of over 200 fights (in other words utterly shot to pieces) - how the **** does that take away from his legacy? He was stopped a total of 9 times, with 7 of those when he was washed up, past the age of thirty and blind in one eye. You should shut the **** up when you don't know what you are talking about. Clueless moron. Source? I've only ever read of pros in the 1960s ad there were 9000 then. Also if you look back at the average number of fights per year/decade on boxrec there were less over all fights around those times, and that's saying a lot since they fought more back then. Mike Silver - The Arc of Boxing.

They were selling out super stadiums constantly Beau Jack a f****** lightweight headlined madison square garden a record 21 times. Super stadiums were sold out for all the big fights If boxing was not one of the biggest sports how could a lightweight have achieved this? And if boxing wasnt one of the most popular sports can you name me a sport from that time more popular than boxing with the exception of perhaps baseball? The Ali fight took place in Lewiston maine because of issues relating to contracts and licensing, not because boxing was less popular lol Their $3.5-million closed-circuit television contracts for the Muhammad Ali-Sonny Liston rematch set for May 25 in the Boston Garden are threatened by a Boston prosecutor who claims they are not properly licensed in Massachusetts. Privately, the prosecutor feels the bout will be "a set-up" and wants no part of it. He has gone to court to halt the fight. The fight has already suffered one postponement when Ali was rushed to the hospital for a hernia operation. If it were postponed again, it would probably never be held. The promoters remember that Sam Michael once had suggested Maine for the fight. The proposal had seemed ludicrous at the time, but now they need a refuge for their fight http://new.yankeemagazine.com/article/night-lewiston-maine-can-never-forget MSG isn't a large scale stadium, and the stadiums Jack did appear in were for the most part in the 18k range. And still we're on the same page as before, only names sell the fights. I know the reason the fight was in maine. The point is you wouldn't have a super bowl final or major league baseball game with such a small crowd. A consistently huge sport should be played in stadiums, not small arenas. Someday Mayweather-Pac might sell our 100k seats or whatever in Yankee stadium, should historians look back and assume boxing was the biggest sport? Other sports? You know American football was around then right? Then there's horse racing, stock car racing, baseball. Plenty of the sports around today were available back then. They didn't just appear out of nowhere. Even cricket had a good following in the US back then.

Did somebody actually say that Marciano could hit harder then today's H.W.s? Seriously, what fuggin sport are you watching? Did the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, and Bert Sugar tuck you into bed at night with that line? Go to sleep.... Dumb ass response. Seriously. That's like saying Marciano didn't have 1 punch KO power when he obviously did.

There are more boxers than ever before. This can be confirmed by boxrec. It doesn't make sense for there to be less boxers since boxing exploded on the global scene only in the early 1990s. Communism didn't even allow Eastern Euros to fight pro at the time. China and India didn't get involved until recently. There are now 50,000 female boxers in the UK alone. That alone is more than there ever have been before. The growth of boxing in Europe has been huge and pretty noticeable. Boxing is considered the fastest growing sport in the UK even right now. It could be argued the reason many of the old timers fought such horrible opponents is because there was likely a lack of competition available. For example Dempsey who fought someone with a 2-1 record in the prime of his career. Then we have the fact people say Rocky fought everyone there was to fight, so does that mean there was no one good to fight? Were bums with 20 losses and zero wins really the best available? Weird, I thought boxing was the biggest sport in the US. Couldn't they find someone better? This is what I'm talking about. All you have is stuff you heard off other people and ad-hominem attacks to stand behind. You state your own opinion as fact then call other people stupid for not agreeing with you. Either back up what you say or keep your mouth shut. And here's the big one AND I MEAN THE BIG ONE no one ever wants to bring up. If boxing was one of the top sports in the US then how come they weren't constantly selling out super stadium. How come Marcianno was fighting in front of crowds of only 5k? How come Ali fought Sonny in front of the smallest crowd in HW title fight history? If boxing was the biggest sport they would have been selling out super stadiums constantly, but no, boxing has, and only will ever sell out stadiums for those really big fighters. They were selling out super stadiums constantly Beau Jack a f****** lightweight headlined madison square garden a record 21 times. Super stadiums were sold out for all the big fights If boxing was not one of the biggest sports how could a lightweight have achieved this? And if boxing wasnt one of the most popular sports can you name me a sport from that time more popular than boxing with the exception of perhaps baseball? The Ali fight took place in Lewiston maine because of issues relating to contracts and licensing, not because boxing was less popular lol Their $3.5-million closed-circuit television contracts for the Muhammad Ali-Sonny Liston rematch set for May 25 in the Boston Garden are threatened by a Boston prosecutor who claims they are not properly licensed in Massachusetts. Privately, the prosecutor feels the bout will be "a set-up" and wants no part of it. He has gone to court to halt the fight. The fight has already suffered one postponement when Ali was rushed to the hospital for a hernia operation. If it were postponed again, it would probably never be held. The promoters remember that Sam Michael once had suggested Maine for the fight. The proposal had seemed ludicrous at the time, but now they need a refuge for their fight http://new.yankeemagazine.com/article/night-lewiston-maine-can-never-forget

Even with the films people don't watch the fights. You and I know that. Take the films out and let them rely on just biased & exaggerated articles like we are now. Doesn't change anything. I'll admit I still have a long way to go but I still manage to watch some fights from the old days. To know anything completely you also have to dig deep in the past. Lot of these fans just go off word of mouth without even watching a single fight from the old days. THAT is the problem my friend, people DON'T watch what's available, they jump to conclusions based on boxrec an don't even know if the records are complete or not. Were some of these guys not very good? I have no doubt. Were some much better than their record indicates? Again I have no doubt. My problem is people trying to discredit wins because they don't understand the circumstances of the era or are to lazy to find out about fighters and their comp any more than what they can see on boxrec.

that has to do with the number of fights that made it to the boxrec, and not the actual number of fights. records from decades past aren't well kept for even the best of the best fighters. there's no telling how many club and local level fights and fighters never made it to record books. this has been gone over previously in the thread if memory serves right. yet the 1st thing you here about is someones "resume". Most psoters only know the top names that the oldtimers fought. they also forget that sometimes the same guys fought 4 or 5 times.

Source? I've only ever read of pros in the 1960s ad there were 9000 then. Also if you look back at the average number of fights per year/decade on boxrec there were less over all fights around those times, and that's saying a lot since they fought more back then. that has to do with the number of fights that made it to the boxrec, and not the actual number of fights. records from decades past aren't well kept for even the best of the best fighters. there's no telling how many club and local level fights and fighters never made it to record books. this has been gone over previously in the thread if memory serves right.

Drag him off his highhorse Larry lol He's going to have to find the horse first. :lol1: