Cuauhtemoc's take on Victor Ortiz

That's because people want quick and easy. Like Jay-Z said, "your generation respects getting shot, my generation respected the shooter" I think people have all kinds of backwards thinking. Hard work, speaking properly is speaking "white". Paying your bills, showing up for work on time and doing what needs to be done is seen as being a sell out. That's why we are failing, we as in black and brown and it's a shame. the worst part is its so far from what was us to begin with. mexicans and mexican immigrants are in general some of the hardest working ppl in the world, as were blacks generations ago (manu ofcourse still are). we were tougher too, real tough not wannabe tough. most chicanos and black youth dont no **** about their history, dont haver a clue what their ppl really represent. they only know this fake, negative media image. like you say thats why we are failing.

its messed up.. back in brother Malcolms time us blacks took pride in being smart and hard working, somehow it got turned around to be something negative. today ppl take pride in the most ignorant things and look down on what makes sense. we got *****s rappin about selling crack and poisoning our own damn ppl, bragging about ruining our neighhborhoods with senseless violence and ppl look up to it. these are the real uncle toms, selling out their ppl for some quick cash while the white man laughs his ass of. the man who does something good for our ppl, gets educates and puts himself in a position to be a real role model and give back to our communities gets looked at as a sell out. like success isnt black enough. stay up bro, hope you smashed that white girl good. That's because people want quick and easy. Like Jay-Z said, "your generation respects getting shot, my generation respected the shooter" I think people have all kinds of backwards thinking. Hard work, speaking properly is speaking "white". Paying your bills, showing up for work on time and doing what needs to be done is seen as being a sell out. That's why we are failing, we as in black and brown and it's a shame.

It's funny when minorities say sh1t like this...I ran track, dated a white cheerleader, was in ASB, took AP classes, and went to college, and I was always called a "white boy" by people that looked like me. How stupid does that look on your part? its messed up.. back in brother Malcolms time us blacks took pride in being smart and hard working, somehow it got turned around to be something negative. today ppl take pride in the most ignorant things and look down on what makes sense. we got *****s rappin about selling crack and poisoning our own damn ppl, bragging about ruining our neighhborhoods with senseless violence and ppl look up to it. these are the real uncle toms, selling out their ppl for some quick cash while the white man laughs his ass of. the man who does something good for our ppl, gets educates and puts himself in a position to be a real role model and give back to our communities gets looked at as a sell out. like success isnt black enough. stay up bro, hope you smashed that white girl good.

Green K. I agree for the most part. But not so much on him growing up in the U.S. as being a major factor on why he doesn't have a warrior's mentality within the ring. I've always felt that for the most part people w/ the warrior's mentality for boxing are born and not made. Like you said, I think it is just his personality and that he doesn't want to endanger everything he has going for him outside of the ring. Victor definitely seems the type that sees boxing as just their job and not their life. I and many would've probably preferred for him to at least go out there and try for one more round then tell the ref during the round if he just couldn't adjust and protect it. Hardly is it ever a good look to go out without at least trying. Growing up in the U.S I think makes a huge difference. I know some people don't understand but I have lived in Mexico and here and I can tell you, we have it good.....REAL good. Even the worst of the worst have it good compared to Mexico and whether people want to admit it or not, it's a reflection of who they are and how they live. I have lived in Mexico and I have seen things that I would never see here in the U.S and it forces kids to grow up in ways Americans would never even consider. You couple that with giving a kid a chance where he literally has to fight to eat, you see some desperate fighters man. Good post, G. I think the criticism Vic is getting is a culmination of a lot of things that have happened in his career prior to this fight. If the Maidana, Floyd (or even the Alarcon) fight wouldn't of happened, we would just be looking at this as an isolated incident involving some really bad luck. If his jaw was indeed broken, i agree with the stoppage. No fighter, no matter how difficult a background should feel like he should "die in the ring". If you come from the hood, this is especially so. This is a job, a profession like everything else. You develop and work towards putting yourself in a financially better position so you can provide for yourself & your family. As fans we need to be more understanding & accepting of this. As fellow fighters, we should be vocal about it. Boxing is a community that is amnesia-stricken. Years after a fighter retires, there will always be another fighter coming along to take his place, his praise and his pay. What won't be replaced, however, is a fighter's mental & physical well being. If we learned anything from the Meldrick Taylors & James Toneys of the world is that this is an unforgiving sport that will destroy you if you allow it to consume you. That's the only part I don't agree with. Again, we as Americans growing up here see it completely different and maybe the way it's supposed to be but in Mexico you literally have to fight to eat. I'm not saying it's right or wrong..I'm just pointing out why it's done and the reason they think this way. JMM sees himself dying in the ring not because of some mach o bullsh1t but because if who he is and where he came from and he's not willing to let that go or give that up. Some may not understand it but like I said, you have to walk a mile in their shoes to know what they are talking about. Victor Ortiz just isn't that kind of kid. His body is hard but his heart isn't.

So I have read the threads and gone over the extreme thinking this place always seems to have and I want to put another perspective on this fight and Victor Ortiz. First off, while being a former boxer, I have never had my jaw broken. So I don't claim to know the pain that goes with it. I understand many other fighters have, Ali, Paulie, Abraham, Rudduck, etc...That however, doesn't really mean anything in the larger scale of things. Should Ortiz have continued? For me the answer is yes with a BUT though. He should have continued because there was only 3 rounds left and he could have survived and he was ahead on all the score cards and I had him ahead as well. It was clear his trainer wanted him to continue but Ortiz felt he'd had enough. I have never suffered a broken jaw so I won't act as if I know what that feels like. I have suffered a broken nose and broken hand during a fight and I can tell you the nose was way worse. I made the mistake of blowing it and my eyes swelled up and I couldn't breath and it was tough. My hand was different, I think the adrenaline made the pain less than what it really was and I just fought through it. I see Ortiz in this way, I think he's a Ricky Williams type of athlete. Not in personality so much but in the fact they were born with incredible physical skills but inside they aren't built for the sport. See, boxing is for poor people, for people with nothing that come from terrible circumstances. Now Ortiz comes from such poverty but there is something about him that detaches himself from the violence in the ring, to the same attitude outside the ring. I once saw and interview with Ricky Williams where they went to his home and he didn't have one piece of football memorabilia up in his house. He wanted to recollection of football. He was more interested in holistic medicine, Buddhist ideals and listening to music. Victor seems the same way, he's a beast physically but his heart and his mind are not "vicious", he seems more calm cool and relaxed. He's said on many occasions that "boxing isn't everything to me", and you can tell. When a fighter says "I will die in the ring" people scoff at that and think it's bravado, it's not for many fighters. Fighters like Juan Manuel Marquez who means it when he says it. I think because of where they came from and how they were raised. Hard, unforgiving and surrounded with a level of poverty and despair that even though Ortiz had a tough time, he still lived in the U.S. I also see Ortiz as a kid who sees a future beyond boxing so to him, it's not worth getting seriously hurt and have his future in jeopardy. Unfortunately he will be criticized for this to no end and it's going to be real tough to over come this. I believe Ortiz is a nice guy, maybe too nice for the sport and he doesn't want to leave it all int he ring. he would rather live to fight another day and sees boxing as simply a means to an end. Shame, because the kid has all the tools. He whooped Berto's ass :D

So I have read the threads and gone over the extreme thinking this place always seems to have and I want to put another perspective on this fight and Victor Ortiz. First off, while being a former boxer, I have never had my jaw broken. So I don't claim to know the pain that goes with it. I understand many other fighters have, Ali, Paulie, Abraham, Rudduck, etc...That however, doesn't really mean anything in the larger scale of things. Should Ortiz have continued? For me the answer is yes with a BUT though. He should have continued because there was only 3 rounds left and he could have survived and he was ahead on all the score cards and I had him ahead as well. It was clear his trainer wanted him to continue but Ortiz felt he'd had enough. I have never suffered a broken jaw so I won't act as if I know what that feels like. I have suffered a broken nose and broken hand during a fight and I can tell you the nose was way worse. I made the mistake of blowing it and my eyes swelled up and I couldn't breath and it was tough. My hand was different, I think the adrenaline made the pain less than what it really was and I just fought through it. I see Ortiz in this way, I think he's a Ricky Williams type of athlete. Not in personality so much but in the fact they were born with incredible physical skills but inside they aren't built for the sport. See, boxing is for poor people, for people with nothing that come from terrible circumstances. Now Ortiz comes from such poverty but there is something about him that detaches himself from the violence in the ring, to the same attitude outside the ring. I once saw and interview with Ricky Williams where they went to his home and he didn't have one piece of football memorabilia up in his house. He wanted to recollection of football. He was more interested in holistic medicine, Buddhist ideals and listening to music. Victor seems the same way, he's a beast physically but his heart and his mind are not "vicious", he seems more calm cool and relaxed. He's said on many occasions that "boxing isn't everything to me", and you can tell. When a fighter says "I will die in the ring" people scoff at that and think it's bravado, it's not for many fighters. Fighters like Juan Manuel Marquez who means it when he says it. I think because of where they came from and how they were raised. Hard, unforgiving and surrounded with a level of poverty and despair that even though Ortiz had a tough time, he still lived in the U.S. I also see Ortiz as a kid who sees a future beyond boxing so to him, it's not worth getting seriously hurt and have his future in jeopardy. Unfortunately he will be criticized for this to no end and it's going to be real tough to over come this. I believe Ortiz is a nice guy, maybe too nice for the sport and he doesn't want to leave it all int he ring. he would rather live to fight another day and sees boxing as simply a means to an end. Shame, because the kid has all the tools. Agree. Thats why you see him take that non-chalant attitude when he loses. I think to him, boxing is just a stepping stone to other things. I see him as wanting to parlay his fame and fortune into something else.

check this youtube video out and u can see what minority white people think of white people www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1izqZJmGF4 To be real im alil ignorant when it comes to white people, i rarely see white people. they are extinct where im from, only reason why I see one is cause the owner of the company i work for is white hahaha. Whites > alright so that shyt was kinda funny

No lie that trailer park must be fun as hell hahahahaha ill be fuking all them dirty hoes and playing bones all day. Well i dont know about the court it's self, but the PR neighborhood is cool and good places to eat and fun clubs, most of the ppl their are cool as well. Thats why i guess i harped on your comment. Most of the PRs i know aint all hung up on race and stuff. Maybe things different down there in Miami, but here we all live and work in the same areas, so we don't throw around terms like "whiteboy", well at least not to our faces they don't lol

Hard, unforgiving and surrounded with a level of poverty and despair that even though Ortiz had a tough time, he still lived in the U.S. I also see Ortiz as a kid who sees a future beyond boxing so to him, it's not worth getting seriously hurt and have his future in jeopardy. Green K. I agree for the most part. But not so much on him growing up in the U.S. as being a major factor on why he doesn't have a warrior's mentality within the ring. I've always felt that for the most part people w/ the warrior's mentality for boxing are born and not made. Like you said, I think it is just his personality and that he doesn't want to endanger everything he has going for him outside of the ring. Victor definitely seems the type that sees boxing as just their job and not their life. I and many would've probably preferred for him to at least go out there and try for one more round then tell the ref during the round if he just couldn't adjust and protect it. Hardly is it ever a good look to go out without at least trying.

hence why i said "uppity white boy sh1t" i know you trailer park boys aint doing anything that doesn't involve beer and meth hahaha you fail to see what is racist in your statement. I love it when racist fools like yourself lump us all as either rich as hell or we come from a trailer court. Funny thing is only trailer court i know of here in cleveland are full of PRs and Dominicans.

this island monkey said to sucky my dick, u understand that? great comeback :boxing:

watch that victor ortiz all access and let me know what the color of them boys in the frat he joined and also tell me what race was in that crossfit gym he went too. I know no one who attended UM or FIU other than my girlfriend man. Not sure what part of Miami u from I never said it was only a whiteboy thing, it's a majority whiteboy thing. when i think of crossfit($150-200/month??), frats, degrees etc... i think of a white man. it is what it is, there's nothing wrong with uppity whiteboy sh1t, not sure why yall fools making it seem like its something bad, i think its fine its just people round me aint doing it. why don't you get your racist attitude adjusted man. it's 2012 not 1912...Hispanics, whites, blacks, asians, indians, etc....all join those clubs and stuff. I think you just believe what you see on TV. Most white ppl are not rich and drive BMWs.

Good read, man.

shut your cracka ass up fool thats some uppity whiteboy sh1t and what? i dont see u trailer park incest crystal meth mama white boys doing all that. can some one tell me what this island monkey just said? I think we have another 13yr old who takes her hip-hop lyrics too seriously

shut your cracka ass up fool thats some uppity whiteboy sh1t and what? i dont see u trailer park incest crystal meth mama white boys doing all that. Get your head out the gutter dude lol. I'm from Miami myself and know that white people aren't the only people in fraternities. Hell, FIU & UM have one of the biggest Latin fraternities in the State, and from experience I wouldn't consider them to be on some "uppity white boy sh*t". Stop believing everything you see on TV

I agree for the most part. He's young and very well may still bounce back, but he doesn't seem to have the heart to fight the way he needs to, to win. It looks like he puts in the time at the gym, but gets easily frustrated in the ring and doesn't like to take too much punishment. I hope he bounces back, but I'm not holding my breath.

i feel the same. The kid does marathons, cross fit, wants to get a degree and just joined a frat. thats some uppity whiteboy sh1t. u can tell he's boxing cause it pays the bills and then some. he wants to be something else tho. We all work jobs we hate cause it pays the bills, boxing is just his. He's a very exciting fighter and I wish his crazy ass the best staying fit and being educated is whiteboy? Just another internet tough guy racist. Id love for you to say that to some "whiteboys" on the west side. They'd bounce your had off sidewalk a few dozen times for your troubles

So I have read the threads and gone over the extreme thinking this place always seems to have and I want to put another perspective on this fight and Victor Ortiz. First off, while being a former boxer, I have never had my jaw broken. So I don't claim to know the pain that goes with it. I understand many other fighters have, Ali, Paulie, Abraham, Rudduck, etc...That however, doesn't really mean anything in the larger scale of things. Should Ortiz have continued? For me the answer is yes with a BUT though. He should have continued because there was only 3 rounds left and he could have survived and he was ahead on all the score cards and I had him ahead as well. It was clear his trainer wanted him to continue but Ortiz felt he'd had enough. I have never suffered a broken jaw so I won't act as if I know what that feels like. I have suffered a broken nose and broken hand during a fight and I can tell you the nose was way worse. I made the mistake of blowing it and my eyes swelled up and I couldn't breath and it was tough. My hand was different, I think the adrenaline made the pain less than what it really was and I just fought through it. I see Ortiz in this way, I think he's a Ricky Williams type of athlete. Not in personality so much but in the fact they were born with incredible physical skills but inside they aren't built for the sport. See, boxing is for poor people, for people with nothing that come from terrible circumstances. Now Ortiz comes from such poverty but there is something about him that detaches himself from the violence in the ring, to the same attitude outside the ring. I once saw and interview with Ricky Williams where they went to his home and he didn't have one piece of football memorabilia up in his house. He wanted to recollection of football. He was more interested in holistic medicine, Buddhist ideals and listening to music. Victor seems the same way, he's a beast physically but his heart and his mind are not "vicious", he seems more calm cool and relaxed. He's said on many occasions that "boxing isn't everything to me", and you can tell. When a fighter says "I will die in the ring" people scoff at that and think it's bravado, it's not for many fighters. Fighters like Juan Manuel Marquez who means it when he says it. I think because of where they came from and how they were raised. Hard, unforgiving and surrounded with a level of poverty and despair that even though Ortiz had a tough time, he still lived in the U.S. I also see Ortiz as a kid who sees a future beyond boxing so to him, it's not worth getting seriously hurt and have his future in jeopardy. Unfortunately he will be criticized for this to no end and it's going to be real tough to over come this. I believe Ortiz is a nice guy, maybe too nice for the sport and he doesn't want to leave it all int he ring. he would rather live to fight another day and sees boxing as simply a means to an end. Shame, because the kid has all the tools. I agree, I'm still a fan. The guy just doesn't know how to be in a boring fight.

Not sure about this. US is the most successful nation when it comes to boxing and most of the champs came from poverty...... Your right but I think things have changed. You see more and more American athletes go into other sports but you are right. I think Ortiz sees boxing as his way of supporting his family and then life outside of boxing. Where as other fighters like Margarito let's say, did nothing but boxing 24/7. It's a different mindset.

I agree with TS for the most part. Good post.