Has Froch surpassed Calzaghe's achievements?

Consider that by the time Joe won his first world title against Eubank at SMW, Toney was campaigning at CW! Winky Wright's prime was at 154, Joe was at 168. As for Jones and Hopkins, read this, "A teleconference was set up in my office in New York for July 30th, 2002, and on the call was myself, Don King who was in the room, Frank Warren and Bernard Hopkins' lawyer, Arnold Joseph. Along with Arnold was a woman named Linda Carter, who was there on behalf of Bernard. We asked Arnold if Bernard wanted to fight Joe Calzaghe and we asked him how much money would he want if he did. The response we got was $3million and the fight would have to take place in the United States. After a little scratching of the head, we said 'Okay, done.' Frank Warren agreed on the spot, Don King agreed and we agreed so as far as we were concerned all parties were singing off the one hymm sheet. Arnold excused himself with Linda and I can only assume it was to call Bernard. Either that day or the next day, they came with a new demand: $6million, double the sum that had been agreed, the deal blew up.....he had then and still has no desire to fight Joe Calzaghe, that much is pretty clear. Joe gets criticised sometimes for not having fought the big-name Americans, but in this case the fault has never rested with him." - Jay Larkin, then Showtime TV Network's Senior Vice-President of Sports and Event Programming. As for Jones Jr, http://youtu.be/xBHwB9_dJ9s?t=28m57s http://youtu.be/QhSxpemf838?t=26m45s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1qeXpJlLNzs http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1jVrFZDxZS0 6:45 in. "For 2 years Calzaghe has chased pound for pound number one Roy Jones, but to no avail". Then look at Jones own comments Former four-division champion Roy Jones Jr, speaking with The Sunday Times, responded to Joe Calzaghe's recent claim of chasing Jones for several years and being brushed aside. Calzaghe spoke with The Sunday Mirror and appeared to have some newfound hostility when Jones' name came up. "I spent five or six years chasing Jones and he acted like he never even knew my name," said Calzaghe. "Suddenly, I beat Hopkins in Vegas and Jones wants to be my neighbor - it's ridiculous. If a fight with Jones made sense from a cash point of view, then it could happen, but he is notorious for asking for too much money." Jones says that he viewed Calzaghe as a possible opponent several years ago, but at the time he saw no reason to travel to Wales to chase the fight. Now that Calzaghe is the bigger star, Jones is willing to make the fight anywhere. “I saw Joe as a potential opponent a long time ago,” Jones said. “But I had my eyes on higher things, such as winning the heavyweight title, so it was nothing against Joe, I love everything about him. He’s a fun guy, an entertaining guy, a good person. We took some pictures together with his sons after the fight on Saturday and we’ve talked on the phone. But boxing is business. When I was the best pound-for-pound boxer in the world it wouldn’t have been smart for me to go and fight Joe. ”You don’t go to somebody else when you’re the best, they must come to you, so I wouldn’t take the risk, and why would I? Why would I meet that challenge when I’m already the best? Why would I go to your country and give you a chance to allow the powers that be to take a close decision and give it to you?" Jones says a fight with Calzaghe is the best fight in boxing, even better than a possible rematch between Oscar De La Hoya and Floyd Mayweather Jr, scheduled for September. “But right now this is the best fight out there, better than the Oscar De La Hoya-Floyd Mayweather rematch because we all know what the outcome of that fight is going to be – another win for Floyd. You don’t know the outcome of this fight, however, so it’s a fight people are going to want to see. There’s suspense, and that’s what makes for a big fight," Jones says. Joe wanted the big fights all along, he was avoided by prime Jones and prime Hopkins like the plague. They knew Joe could beat them and take the big money out of their pockets. People will still blame Joe, for some reason it is easier for Boxing fans to blame him, especially Americans. I have always been aware of the history, but people believe what they want. His detractors always look at his career and think he took the easy road, took some challenges at the end and rode off into the sunset. Funny thing is if you read his autobiography, it is full of regret and bitterness, and you actually end up feeling a little sorry for him. But at the end of the day he had a great career, one of the best fighters of his era, without a doubt.

Who cares froch could of boxed joe 10 times and would still of lost them all joe was an elite level fighter where as Carl froch Is hard and determined but lacks boxing skill

Has Froch surpassed Calzaghe's achievements? Not even close. Froch deservedly gets credit for facing eight top opponents in a row, but he lost two of those fights (one was lopsided), got a very debatable decision over Dirrell and was lucky to salvage a very late come-from-behind win over a faded Taylor. He could easily be 4-4 in his last eight fights, and the MD win over Johnson wasn't overly impressive either. His best three wins are Pascal, Abraham and Bute. He can still add to his career, of course, but unless he wins some very big fights in future (rematches with both Kessler and Ward for starters), he won't surpass Calzaghe.

Froch has fought more top prime fighters in a row that Joe has fought in his entire career. Fought? Not beaten? Prime as in Johnson, Taylor?

Froch has fought more top prime fighters in a row that Joe has fought in his entire career.

always love the noobs who bring up Toney as a person Calzaghe should have fought.

You've just brutally mauled yourself! In those 42 fights, Calzaghe defeated former world Champions Byron Mitchell and Charles Brewer who were both Americans, and top SMW's of the era! I bet you didn't know that guys Calzaghe defeated like Richie Woodhall, Robin Reid and Mario Veit were all former and future world champions. You keep saying Calzaghe ducked all these guys, so actually tell me, who did he duck and when did he duck them? Put your money where your mouth is Whilst Calzaghe stayed in Wales facing his Mandatories, the likes of Hopkins, Jones, Toney, Wright etc. all were shifting divisions in super fights making history and insanes amount of money. Joe stayed in SMW when it was at its weakest in history (Worst than the HW and CW division at the time). The point is, Joe was a talented boxer, but made no attempts to make a super fight. Froch on the other hand did, he faced every tough opponent possible. Joe stayed with Frank Warren, and wasted his career. The exact reason why Hatton and Amir Khan left.

They both hid out fighting Euro bums. Darius at least took on some American contenders. Funny because a brief look at Cal's record indicates he fough as Many American Fighters for the WBO title as he did Europeans. And most of the European fighters where Brits in his first 10 defences, I don't think it's unreasonable for a UK fighter to fight the Best Brits. In answer to the Original question The Cobra has the best Resume even with the defeats on it but would lose a 10-2 if teh fight had ever happened, the only real comparison is the Cal soundly beat a better version of Kessler than the Cobra lost too.

Yes he has and the main reason is because up until now, he has never been the box office draw that Joe Calzaghe was in the U.K. Therefore, he was forced into taking many more challenges and risks in the ring, against better quality opponents than Joe; Especially with his frequent sanctioned bouts outside of the U.K. Thereby, surpassing Joe Calzaghe's career achievements in the process.

personally i think he has When Froch finished the Super Six tournament by losing to Ward, he had already surpassed Calslappy''s accomplishments. By beating Taylor before the tournament and fighting/beating three out of four A-list opponents in the Super Six, Froch had already fought and defeated three more A-class opponents than Calslappy fought in his entire career. Beating Bute simply was icing on the cake.

no matter, cal beats carl 10 out of 10 times and you all know that, no offense to anyone that thinks they disagree

Not a chance in hell!! 21 title defenses, won the 4 major titles and lineal champ at 168, whooped a prime versión of a guy Froch lista to! Lineal champ and undefeated at 175. So no, not Even close

god this is so pathetic Has Froch unified division? 21 title defences? 2 weight lineal champion? no, he ****ing lost to Kessler who Calzaghe dominated. end of thread

joe calzaghe is The only one in history to become Undisputed super middleweight champion he has had 24 championship fights has 3 ATGs on his resume Roy Jones Jr Chris Eubank Bernard Hopkins Beat 4 Undefeated Fighters Mark Delaney 21-0 mikkel kessler 40-0 world champion Mario Veit 30-0 jeff lacy 21-0 world champion joe calzaghe beat 9 world champions Chris Eubank, was a 2 weight champion and had 24 world tltle fights Richie Woodhall was a 2 weight champion and had 6 world tltle fights Roy Jones Jr was a 4 weight champion and had 25 world tltle fights Charles Brewer had 7 world tltle fights Bernard Hopkins, the best middleweight of all time he has 25 world tltle fights Mikkel Kessler, has 11 world tltle fights SOON TO BE IBF CHAMPION Robin Reid had 8 world tltle fights Byron Mitchell had 8 world tltle fights Jeff Lacy had 7 world tltle fights if you add all these world champions title fight up it adds up to 121 world championship title fights when has CARL FROCH beat someone with over 20 championship fights?...... calzaghe beat 3 guy with over 24 championship fights NAME 1 ATG FROCH FOUGHT?........ WHO IS THE 1 OUT OF ONLY 3 BOXERS IN HISTORY TO BE UNDISPUTED AND UNDEFEATED WORLD CHAMPION?.... WHO IS THE 1 OUT OF THE 4 MEN IN HISTORY TO HAVE OVER 20 TITLE DEFENCES?...... WHO IS THE SECOND LONGEST-REIGNING WORLD CHAMPION IN HISTORY?..... WHEN CARL FROCH RESUME MATCH THAT LET ME KNOW FROCH FAN'S ARE IGNORANT THEY AIN'T THE SPARPEST KNIVES IN THE DRAWER To throw a spanner in the works: HOW MANY PRIME ATG'S HAS CALZAGHE BEAT?

Froch has more depth in his resume, so in one sense you can say he has, but I feel Calzaghe possibly fought a better Kessler, fresher, undefeated and more confident, and beat him soundly. Calzaghe dominated the second half of the fight. Froch...well lost in a very close fight. I think that tells you a little something about their levels. Also when Calzaghe fought that version of Hopkins who was still p4p one of the best in world, it was a very close fight, Froch has fought IMO once at that type of level against Ward and was somewhat dominated. So although Froch overall has beaten more world class fighters, he has not been as impressive at the very highest level. He is still going though. Respect to what you just said, but when all said and done Ward will be remembered as twice the fighter Bernard ever was, Ward is better than a prime Hopkins and i don't think we've even seen Ward really hit his PRIME hard yet. Bernard even admitted Ward is like him but better, and would never fight him, Plus i really feel Calzaghe lost that fight and after two losses to Taylor I don't think Hopkins was anywhere near the top 5 P4p fighters at the time.

Of course he has. Calzaghe didnt step up to the challenge more than 2 times. He just uses the triangle theory. Calzaghes achievment doesnt compare to Frochs.

Is Froch's resume almost as good as Calzaghe's? Yes. agree, i think it could be better. fighting bums in your hometown doesn't give you a good resume at all but fighting the best fight after fight does

Has Froch unified the division? Has Froch got 21 title defences? Has Froch become a lineal champion? Has Froch become a two weight lineal champion? Hmmmm ;) Is Froch's resume almost as good as Calzaghe's? Yes.

Has Froch unified the division? Has Froch got 21 title defences? Has Froch become a lineal champion? Has Froch become a two weight lineal champion? Hmmmm ;)

This. I'm not a fan of Froch. But i cant see how Calzaghe had a better record. His best win was against Kessler and a dodgy SD against an old man Hopkins. Joe fan's talking about his unbeaten record need to know something about Boxing. Undefeated means virtually nothing. The best boxers in history all had losses. It's not about the losses, it's about who you beat. /threadjoe calzaghe is The only one in history to become Undisputed super middleweight champion he has had 24 championship fights has 3 ATGs on his resume Roy Jones Jr Chris Eubank Bernard Hopkins Beat 4 Undefeated Fighters Mark Delaney 21-0 mikkel kessler 40-0 world champion Mario Veit 30-0 jeff lacy 21-0 world champion joe calzaghe beat 9 world champions Chris Eubank, was a 2 weight champion and had 24 world tltle fights Richie Woodhall was a 2 weight champion and had 6 world tltle fights Roy Jones Jr was a 4 weight champion and had 25 world tltle fights Charles Brewer had 7 world tltle fights Bernard Hopkins, the best middleweight of all time he has 25 world tltle fights Mikkel Kessler, has 11 world tltle fights SOON TO BE IBF CHAMPION Robin Reid had 8 world tltle fights Byron Mitchell had 8 world tltle fights Jeff Lacy had 7 world tltle fights if you add all these world champions title fight up it adds up to 121 world championship title fights when has CARL FROCH beat someone with over 20 championship fights?...... calzaghe beat 3 guy with over 24 championship fights NAME 1 ATG FROCH FOUGHT?........ WHO IS THE 1 OUT OF ONLY 3 BOXERS IN HISTORY TO BE UNDISPUTED AND UNDEFEATED WORLD CHAMPION?.... WHO IS THE 1 OUT OF THE 4 MEN IN HISTORY TO HAVE OVER 20 TITLE DEFENCES?...... WHO IS THE SECOND LONGEST-REIGNING WORLD CHAMPION IN HISTORY?..... WHEN CARL FROCH RESUME MATCH THAT LET ME KNOW FROCH FAN'S ARE IGNORANT THEY AIN'T THE SPARPEST KNIVES IN THE DRAWER