If RJJ retired AFTER fighting Ruiz, would he have gone down as a TOP 5 ATG?

You flip flop like a ****in burger Larry... Youre p4p one of the most inconsistent posters on bscene, real talk. http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll208/Nick_6673/comment-friday-damn.jpg

No. his skills was top tennish though..

The reason I gave those examples. Because, not moving up weight means it's a bad thing. Like you try to insinuate. Sometimes dominance in a weight-class is more difficult and a greater accomplishment than moving up in weight. Of course having the same trainer matters. It's silly to say or not or act like that's not even relevant enough to mention. It's pretty relevant. Again not moving up to fight Carbajal in the equivalent to Roy not moving up to fight Jirov while taking lesser money and fight a lesser threat in Clinton Woods. But, you're not even understanding the point. You're making my point for me and I thank you for that. What BoxingGenius point is that H2H in terms of skill, talent and ability he is the GOAT. Not whether or not he beat this guy or didn't fight that guy. He is not talking about resume, he is talking about skill, talent, ability. A signed glove means nothing by the way. Of course JRo, of course. I forgot aaaaaalllllllllllllllllllllllll the great fighters who fought at 105 and 108. How could I forget all the Vorapins of the division? Oh, how could you ever forgive me all mighty JRo?

no........his resume really isnt that good You flip flop like a ****in burger Larry... Youre p4p one of the most inconsistent posters on bscene, real talk.

Roy is top 20 material for me.

Dominating a weight class for years >>>>>>>>>> hopping divisions and cherry picking the weakest belt-holders to collect a worthless strap. Poet if it were that easy hopkins would have done it and got the fame/$ like roy did. but he didnt because prime for prime hop aint half the fighter roy is. he doesnt have the resume but in my mind he beat anyone south of heavyweight in the history of the sport.

Did Finito fight at 108 yes or no? Hagler didn't go up in weight, Monzon didn't go up in weight, did Finito go up to 108 yes or no? So there was 2 fights that didn't get done. Now for such a Finito fan you should have mentioned that him and Chiquita shared the same trainer. I'm pretty sure you knew that, why not mention it? Not relevant? No? So he didn't go up to fight Carbajal. Isn't that the equivalent of Roy ducking Jirov? But, that is not a knock on Roy. I don't hold him ducking Jirov against him. It would have been awesome to see. But, it didn't happen. Not every fight can be made. But, who cares if he went up or not? Because, that is not what I was responding to anyways. Are we talking about resume or H2H? Because, if it's the latter it doesn't what fights were and weren't made it matters how skilled and talented they were no? Yea, because we are arguing, and debating making our case for Hagler and Monzon being THE GOAT..... SMH. You sound like an IDIOT. Same trainer or not, he did not fight Gonzales or Carbajal, the 2 fighters that had the greatest shot at beating Lopez. And even if he did move up to 108, he still didnt fight them. His competition at 108 wasnt exactly a Murderer's Row. Im not hating in Lopez, because like I said, he is one of my favorite fighters ever, and I even have a signed glove, so dont get your thong in a bunch. http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg48/htowntexan08/DSC04979.jpg

Remember more importantly than who is when. duran beat moore at 32 and barkley at 37. roy made his move to heavy at 34 and beat ruiz. then back down and beat tarver. and duran was already on the downside at 32. losing to kirkland laing not too long before that. roy was still on top at 34. he also beat trinidad at 39. not saying that was a great win but it's still something. iran barkley really wasn't that good. we could nitpick forever i just really don't see much of a difference. do you think pernell whitaker has a better resume than roy? nobody ever complains about his but it's not any better than roy's.

Whe would you rank Ricardo Lopez then? If Roy is the GOAT? Where is Finito? It's not his fault he was born a midget, he destroyed damn near everyone he fight and only had 2 competitive fights at the tail end of his career. Never suffered a lost, was so good, that he makes JMM a poorman version of him. One of the if not the most perfect fundamentally skilled technician of the 90's. Is he the GOAT as well because it's not his fault that he was soooo small? That's right Nope, tell me more. No you f*cking idiot. I am probably the biggest Lopez fan you will find, and he can not be the GOAT because he refused to go up in weight when he had already DOMINATED a weight division for YEARS. He didnt go up in weight when there were 2 fighters that MAYBE could have given him problems, Michael Carbajal and Chiquita Gonzales. Please, just STFU.

he is a great talent yes one of the best ever has some good wins toney hopkis ruiz hill tarver but top 5?? Lol at the people you mentioned for Roy. Roy's resume is so underrated it's sad. Hopkins, Toney, Tarver, McCallum, Gonzalez, Ruiz, Woods, Hill, Griffin, Harding, Trinidad, Del Valle, Johnson, Grant. And if Mosley and Margarito are mentioned for Pacquiao, then what the hell, i'll name Tito Trinidad for Roy Jones. Roy Jones Jr's record against undefeated fighters is an impressive 8-1, with his lone loss coming in 2008 against Calzaghe, obviously way past it. If you want to count the BS DQ loss to Griffin then Jones is 8-2. But has basically lost to only 1 of 9 undefeated fighters he faced. That's very, very, very impressive. Sure you got Brannon, Hanshaw, Kelly and Thomas in there. But you also have Toney, Gonzalez, Harding, and Griffin. Even seemingly unbeatable fighters, couldn't beat Jones. You also had guys coming in with all sorts of win streaks, that stopped with Roy Jones, and the win streaks continued after Roy Jones beat them. Which shows just how stupid that "Roy fought bums and cherrypicked" comment is. When Jones beat Tarver, Tarver had lost one fight, to Harding, a guy Roy had already defeated. Tarver had not lost in 3 years before he was defeated by a weight drained Jones in a good close fight. And you didn't even mention Harding. After Jones beat the undefeated Gonzalez, Gonzalez posted up a 9 fight winning streak, including wins over Glen Johnson and Dariusz...you know who. Again, you didn't mention Gonzalez, despite that being a great win. McCallum, another guy you didn't mention. His record entering the fight speaks for it self. 49-3. The fight was legit. It was a veteran vs a the youngster type of fight. McCallum ended his career with 5 losses, never getting stopped. And if you want to say McCallum was past his best against Jones, look at McCallum's 3rd very close fight with Toney, A YEAR AFTER Jones had soundly shut McCallum out. Some people may have scored it for McCallum. Go check the fight out on youtube, it's a very good fight and it was McCallum's last fight. Toney has clearly said, that the 1997 fight with McCallum was the toughest fight of his career.

Completely dominated 2 future of hall of Famers (Hopkins, Toney). Scored a 1 round Ko over undefeated Light Heavyweight champion Montell Griffin who defeated James Toney twice. Koed 2 time light heavyweight champ Virgil Hill in 4 rounds with a body shot. Beat 2 other title holders decisively. Was undefeated for 10 years. His resume is good enough... JRo says that isnt good enough. Case Closed.

According to who? You? When did you make up this rule? Last time I checked, there weren't stipulations on how someone could make their H2H Greatest fighter of all time. I told you bro, just stop feeding the troll. His word is the Bible...blah blah blah.

H2H he is up there. But, there is no H2H GOAT. In fantasy H2H match ups you would put them in weight-class they participated in. Like Ricardo Lopez is the GOAT H2H since we would only match him up to weight-classes he participated in and he was arguably the best in both. When people talk about ATG and top 5 and top 10 and GOAT they don't really mean H2H. Obviously that is not what the TS is talking about either. Lets keep it what the thread is about. And, in H2H match-ups, Roy gets all the respect he deserves. Not sure why you're acting as if he doesn't. When they talk Roy with H2H match-ups he usually comes out more on top than not. Again that's not what the thread is about anyways. So resume he is PROBABLY not? OK. You have him #2? #3? Where do you rank him(in the sense of what the TS is talking about). Dude, seriously, I say in the most sincere way possible, PLEASE STFU. You sound so f*cking dumb. Do you realize how stupid the bold part is?

no........his resume really isnt that good roy's resume is outstanding. Completely dominated 2 future of hall of Famers (Hopkins, Toney). Scored a 1 round Ko over undefeated Light Heavyweight champion Montell Griffin who defeated James Toney twice. Koed 2 time light heavyweight champ Virgil Hill in 4 rounds with a body shot. Beat 2 other title holders decisively. Was undefeated for 10 years. His resume is good enough...

BoxingGenius, stop arguing with Roman Moreno aka JRosales. He flip flops, and tries to be some "My opinion is fact" kinda douche. Leave him alone. Today he is playing the devils advocate, next he will be swinging by any piece of pube he can get his hand on. JRo is the Mitt Romney of BoxingScene.

Roy fought the best available and dominated them hands down. He had two close fights in like 16 years (Tarver I and Griffin). Roy never fought Dariuz because he wanted Roy to go to Europe to fight him. Roy deserved to fight at home in the states until he lost. Now that Roy lost, you see he didn't have a problem fighting over seas or making the Hopkins fight. Guys didn't want to fight Roy by his rules so a few fights never happened. Far from ducking anyone. Fact is, head to head Roy could possibly beat anyone P4P in the history of the sport. Which is why he made his opponents look like nobody's. It's not that Hopkins was green, Hopkins just went up against one of the greatest fighters of all time in his prime. Simple as that. Roy fought past when he should have. That's his biggest mistake, not that he never fought anyone that would make him GOAT worthy. If Roy is in wars like Ali, Pac and Robinson; a lot of guys would change their tune about him. But the fact that he essentially dominated everyone in his prime, it's "Oh, he never fought anyone; therefore, he couldn't have possibly been the GOAT". GTFOH Thank You, bro..... this is EXACTLY how I feel. I couldnt have said it better myself. Green K

I know if he retired after the Ruiz fight he'd be incredibly overrated at this point. But, sadly, how his career has gone after that has made him become underrated. Best answer. Among casual/ mainstream Boxing fans he would be a Top 5 ATG. You would probably get a significant number of pure Boxing fans rating him at number 1 for Light Heavyweights There would be almost unanimous consent that he was top 3 as far as natural talent is concerned.

i don't really get why people discredit roy's resume. middleweight to heavyweight is quite an accomplish. hopkins and toney are hall of famers. he beat many other good fighters and not just beat but dominated. i love roberto duran. i would put him toward the very top of the all time list. but if you wanted to nitpick, you can say that leonard was really the only true great fighter he beat. davey moore was not any better than montell griffin. iran barkley was not any better than virgil hill. roy's resume is outstanding.

Bob Fitzsimmons did it too, and beat better competition in doing so, but he often misses out on the top 10 You can make this case but coupled with RJJ's top 2 talent that's where I use mystique along with accomplishment.

Roy Jones Jr. is the most god gifted talent to ever lace on a pair of gloves. Talent wise he is the GOAT. It's resume wise he never had the foes to help him catch up to his talent.