Why is Martinez ranked above Ward p4p?

Ward is number 3 p4p

Ward deserves to be above Martinez.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yleEs15g51w/TlrawTwZSrI/AAAAAAAABQY/gnyx4k2pzcQ/s1600/tommy-lee-jones-implied-face-palm.pngWhy don't you like that as a fantasy fight eh Tommy Lee? Instead of trying so hard and using ALT codes to make yourself seem serious about boxing, take me to school on why I'm wrong about either of those fighters? :dunno:

Are you kidding? That would be an amazing fight. How are you going to out slick and out box a guy who is so slick he doesn't even have to box? Just imagining that fight in fantasy land made me get excited about the sport as a whole. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yleEs15g51w/TlrawTwZSrI/AAAAAAAABQY/gnyx4k2pzcQ/s1600/tommy-lee-jones-implied-face-palm.png

Because i wouldnt pay to see ward vs. roy jones in his prime. The dude is crazy boring.Are you kidding? That would be an amazing fight. How are you going to out slick and out box a guy who is so slick he doesn't even have to box? Just imagining that fight in fantasy land made me get excited about the sport as a whole.

It is all subjective. And to the ones saying it is not how you win, check again. Donaire was raised in the rankings after KOing Montiel and Martinez after KOing Williams. And if having a tough fight deducts points than Pacquiao should not be no. 2 anymore. It doesn't matter anyways it is all opinions.

Martnez is here on the stregth of the PAul WIlliams KO. Seeing how Paul looked against Lara, and the subsequent Barker and Macklin wins being not as dominant as expected, it seems reasonable to argue Ward should be higher. If Ward was an HBO fighter, and thus had equal or more exsposure, I believe he would be ahead of Martinez. After the Barker fight I dropped him down a few spots. He cherry picked a fighter who only had one fight since his lay off and it was his first ever fight above Domestic level which was against Spada and Barker looked distinctly average. The fight was not only a joke but Martinez lost quite a few rounds against him. After that, I had to drop him down a few spots.

I think moving up and beating two pound for pounders decisively, one of them by chilling KO, had a lot to do with it. Kelly Pavlik wasn't P4P was he?

i disagree. going into the tournament no one acknowledged ward as the heavy favorite but once he beat kessler and bika, it was clear how good he was. you got to remember this tournament took like 3 years. with one or two fights into the tournament, predictions changed, or at least they could have. by the time his fight with abraham came around, ward was a clear favorite. yes, he made it look easy when the fight actually happened, but honestly, i don't recall that many people thinking abraham was going to upset ward. yeah, probably his fans gave him a puncher's chance but actually thinking about it, it was difficult to imagine abraham beating ward, same thing with froch. i posted prediction videos below. even though froch was rated no. 3 or whatever in the super middleweight division, it was just like mayweather/mosley. what was mosley ranked in the welterweight division heading into the mayweather fight? like no. 3 or something? probably. but everyone knew mosley just had a puncher's chance, if that. mayweather was obviously going to win that fight (which he did), just like ward/abraham and ward/froch (which he did). i'm not trying to downplay ward's accomplishments, but you saying he fought the very best while martinez fought average fighters isn't right. you look at when the super six started, martinez fought a highly touted williams twice, the ring champ in pavlik, and then a solid unbeaten dzinziruk and a proven challenge in macklin. the absolute best is like the top 3 or 5, i don't really think guys like bika, green, and abraham were part of that. again, i never said martinez fought the best either. you can also factor in what kind of fashion these two have been winning these fights as well. ward has a chance now to do it now though, with the winner of bute/froch (which will be bute) and andre dirrell. i heard he doesn't want to fight dirrell though (not sure, just saw a post about it in another thread a while back). all in all, i think ward's recent wins don't completely shit on martinez'. martinez earned his spot by the way he wins his fights, and the opposition isn't that bad (it could be better though, obviously) more ward/abraham predictions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQfmLXnPqxY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjoyW3O7Vvs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oru2ewBuj-I ward/froch predictions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6NlnUyhf7g http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE4LXb9nqaE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV6lffLgTi0 (watt & davies) http://www.boxingscene.com/boxingscenes-staff-predictions-andre-ward-carl-froch--47457 again key quote is "GOING INTO THE TOURNAMENT", yeah people jumped on the bandwagon AFTER he dominate Kessler, Kessler was the 1st Round of that Tournament, I remember preview videos of Kessler vs Ward and Dirrell vs Froch...people in the comment section on youtube and on this Forum was saying how "THE AMERICANS ARE GOING TO GET KNOCKED OUT"...again Froch, Kessler and Abraham was title holder going into this tournament so rightfully so people was picking them as the favorite...me personally I picked Abraham or Ward myself before the Tournament even started and I knew Dirrell would give Froch MAJOR PROBLEMS in Nottingham So again, it is easy to say "THE TOURNAMENT WASN'T TOUGH FOR WARD" after looking at it now and seeing how he basically dominated the Tournament and barely even lost Rounds in the Tournament and of course some will say "HE FOUGHT AT HOME MOST OF THE TOURNAMENT" as if fighting in a different country really would have made a difference, he dominated all his competition so bad, the only way they would have been able to defeat Ward would be Hometown Robbery As for Martinez...I will give you Paul Williams and Pavlik, great wins...and he was properly rewarded for that and got 2010 Fighter Of The Year and rightfully so but he has had 3 more fights after that: Serhiy Dzinziruk, Darren Barker and Matthew Macklin decent fighters but certainly not the best of the best, Serhiy Dzinziruk was holding a belt hostage in his country for years and protecting that undefeated record, look at his resume before fighting Martinez, HE FOUGHT NO ONE (he does have decent skills though), Barker...won't even waste my time on that, he could have fought Priog or Quillin instead wasting time with Barker, Macklin was solid but his hype was him being Robbed by Strum another fighter that I really don't think much up and has been fighting BUMS in his country and protecting his belts and record While Ward was fighting Top 5-10 Guys in his Division during this Tournament, Froch is still rated the #3 by most in their Division despite losing to Ward, Ring has Bika #5, and Abraham #9, if Kessler was still in that Division he would likely be in the Top 5 in that Division as well but since moving up he is already #9 in the Light Heavyweight Division I have no personal attachment toward either fighter, I like Ward and Martinez, but based on the last 2-3 fights, Edge goes to Ward IMO and he should be rated higher then Martinez and Donaire on the P4P list "CURRENTLY"...AGAIN "CURRENTLY!" people act as if the P4P list don't rotate and change around after certain fights, nobody is saying Ward should be put ahead of Martinez as if Martinez wouldn't have a chance to move back up over Ward

Having the likes of Darren Barker and Matthew Macklin causing him adversity is why Andre Ward should be higher on the list. Martnez is here on the stregth of the PAul WIlliams KO. Seeing how Paul looked against Lara, and the subsequent Barker and Macklin wins being not as dominant as expected, it seems reasonable to argue Ward should be higher. If Ward was an HBO fighter, and thus had equal or more exsposure, I believe he would be ahead of Martinez.

Ward's best wins are against the guys in the Super 6 tourney. His best win was over Kessler...there were some questionable head clashes in that fight. Froch looked like trash in the Ward fight, he barely even tried, Green was a joke, AA didn't even belong at SMW. The Bika fight was kind of close and he didn't even fight Dirrell which would have been the toughest fight out of the lot. Beyond his competition, virtually every fight he has is in his hometown. Martinez won a title at a weight, moved up and won the main title there from a guy who outweighed him by 11 pounds on fight night and was taller than him by 3 or 4 inches. Martinez has won almost every fight by KO and has shown remarkable adjustment and champion qualities in overcoming adversity to win impressively. Martinez is willing to fight whoever they put in front of him and he did it the hard way- he didn't have networks hyping him up and delivering the competition to his front door like Ward did. I think Ward is severely hyped (overhyped to a degree; however I can't deny the guy has good skills) due to the fact that he is from the US. Ward just doesn't close the show like Martinez does.....Sergio is by far one of the most entertaining boxers in the world. Having the likes of Darren Barker and Matthew Macklin causing him adversity is why Andre Ward should be higher on the list.

LOL. Ward had something to do with how Froch looked. And what do you mean AA didn't belong at SMW? I can almost guarantee you didn't feel that way after he stopped Jermaine Taylor. That was out of his hands, the Dirrell fight. Uh...ok. But Ward still had to actually fight and beat the competition that he faced. And you don't think Sergio is? I thought he looked good in the Taylor fight but after that it became apparent that due to either the power of the punches at that weight or the height and reach differences, AA couldn't do anything against ANY of the elite of SMW. He could have set something up with Dirrell after the tourney ended. Now he is fighting Dawson at 168 :lol1: I know Dawson asked for that weight but come on...he is going to be looking like Skeletor at the weigh-in. Ward is far more widely known that Martinez is.....but for what? Why do people know his name so much more than Martinez'? The networks pump him up and build up his rep. The Dawson fight would be much more meaningful at 171 but it is what it is.

:lol1:@ anyone saying Ward was favored in the Super 6. Majority and I mean a strong majority had all 3 Americans not getting out of the first round. Dirrell and Ward were huge underdogs and performed very well. agree 100%

Ward's best wins are against the guys in the Super 6 tourney. His best win was over Kessler...there were some questionable head clashes in that fight. Froch looked like trash in the Ward fight, he barely even tried, Green was a joke, AA didn't even belong at SMW. LOL. Ward had something to do with how Froch looked. And what do you mean AA didn't belong at SMW? I can almost guarantee you didn't feel that way after he stopped Jermaine Taylor. The Bika fight was kind of close and he didn't even fight Dirrell which would have been the toughest fight out of the lot. Beyond his competition, virtually every fight he has is in his hometown. That was out of his hands, the Dirrell fight. Martinez won a title at a weight, moved up and won the main title there from a guy who outweighed him by 11 pounds on fight night and was taller than him by 3 or 4 inches. Martinez has won almost every fight by KO and has shown remarkable adjustment and champion qualities in overcoming adversity to win impressively. Martinez is willing to fight whoever they put in front of him and he did it the hard way- he didn't have networks hyping him up and delivering the competition to his front door like Ward did. Uh...ok. But Ward still had to actually fight and beat the competition that he faced. I think Ward is severely hyped (overhyped to a degree; however I can't deny the guy has good skills) due to the fact that he is from the US. Ward just doesn't close the show like Martinez does.....Sergio is by far one of the most entertaining boxers in the world. And you don't think Sergio is?

actually, most people were picking ward or kessler to win that tourney from the get go..dirrel too as the third most pick..just sayin... No they weren't. More like Abraham & Kessler.

Ward's best wins are against the guys in the Super 6 tourney. His best win was over Kessler...there were some questionable head clashes in that fight. Froch looked like trash in the Ward fight, he barely even tried, Green was a joke, AA didn't even belong at SMW. The Bika fight was kind of close and he didn't even fight Dirrell which would have been the toughest fight out of the lot. Beyond his competition, virtually every fight he has is in his hometown. Martinez won a title at a weight, moved up and won the main title there from a guy who outweighed him by 11 pounds on fight night and was taller than him by 3 or 4 inches. Martinez has won almost every fight by KO and has shown remarkable adjustment and champion qualities in overcoming adversity to win impressively. Martinez is willing to fight whoever they put in front of him and he did it the hard way- he didn't have networks hyping him up and delivering the competition to his front door like Ward did. I think Ward is severely hyped (overhyped to a degree; however I can't deny the guy has good skills) due to the fact that he is from the US. Ward just doesn't close the show like Martinez does.....Sergio is by far one of the most entertaining boxers in the world.

It can apply to anyone but I think Floyd and Manny have earned their spots through the years. They won't drop unless they lose, imo. Ward and Martinez don't have a resume like those two dudes. That's why I'd say it matters more when you compare those two fighters. Well you can argue that Pacquiao lost his last fight. I don't think it matters anyway. I have him around #3/4 p4p

applies to everybody even floyd ... If you know me, you know I'm not a Floyd fan, but Floyd's last 3 fights were against champs & he took 3 titles. His last few were above & beyond both Pacman's & Sergio's & I don't think it's debatable. Outside of Macklin should have had Sturm's title.

Serious question, do we apply this identical logic to Pacman too?? applies to everybody even floyd ...

P4P should have nothing to do with how you beat your opponent. Whether it is by kayo or by UD, a win is a win. IMO, Ward should be higher because he's actually beating accomplished fighters, in a great division. He's about to fight another P4P guy, Chad Dawson. Love Martinez but the guys he's fought the last few years has been pretty pathetic. Serious question, do we apply this identical logic to Pacman too??