Donaire peers......

Whats your thoughts on the rest of the post Cliff??? I think you make some good points. Donaire isn't fighting utter garbage. It's just there is a.perception of better challenges, frustration with a career that should be more defined by now, and the perception that his team has more control over who he fights than others.

Donaire is in his 4th weight class now, and he's already 29. He's beaten Darchinyan, Maldonado, Mthalane, H. Marquez, Montiel, and Vazquez Jr. His Flyweight resume was solid, all of those fighters were in the Top 10 there at Flyweight, and Darchinyan was Top 10 P4P at the time. Hernan Marquez was an alright win, but he wasn't even in the Top 10 when Nonito beat himand it was an interim title. Montiel was a really good win at 118, he was Top 10 P4P. Still, there were so many other fighters at 118 he didn't fight (Perez, Agbeko, Mares, Moreno, etc). He still has chances to get some of those on his reusme though, so we'll see. And Vazquez Jr was Top 10 at 122 by default I guess. He's never beaten anyone and got TKO'd by Arce in his only step up. His resume is lacking for being 29 and going through 4 weight classes. By the time someone like Floyd was entering his 4th weight class, he'd beaten far better fighters. He'd beaten G. Hernandez, Manfredy, Gerena, G. Vargas, Corrales, C. Hernandez, Chavez, Castillo, Corley, Gatti, and Judah. Genaro was the lineal champ at 130, the best SFW in the world. Manfredy was the #1 SFW contender in the world and had just beaten a prime Gatti prior to fighting Floyd. G. Vargas was a Top 10 SFW at the time, was coming off beating Tackie, who would go on to have fights with Tszyu, Mitchell, and Hatton. Corrales was the #1 SFW in the world and #5 P4P, unbeaten. C. Hernandez and Chavez were both Top 10 SFW's and would on to win titles, and fight Morales. Castillo was the lineal champ at 135, coming off beating Bazan and Johnston, would also go on to have more good wins in his career, the best LW of his era. Corley was a Top 10 JWW coming off a close loss to Judah. Gatti was the 2nd best JWW in the world, coming off wins over Leija and Dorin, held the WBC title. And Judah was a Top 10 WW at the time as well, though he was coming off a loss. When comparing to Donaire to the point he's at his career, to other great fighters, his resume is lacking for the amount of hyope he receives. dont forget H. Marquez moved up to fight donaire

Narvaez had no shot going in and it was not a legit title defense. I'm sorry but it wasn't. Winky should have stayed gone when he came back for Williams, it showed he was past it by suffering that layoff, and he's going to get brutalized by Quillin on June 2nd. Dzinziruk had his period of inactivity, but it's still different. After losing to Moreno, Sydorenko was a non factor at anyweight around there. Dzinziruk was still unbeaten and had beaten Santos and Julio at 154. While it wasn't his weight class, it was still different than Sydorenko fighting Donaire. We can agree to disagree. I just feel like Donaire gets too many passes for being the supposed 2nd coming and a Top 10 P4P fighter. His reusme isn't what you'd think it is considering all the praise and hype he gets. That's fine, I'm done with this argument. I wish you'd tell me what makes Narvaez not legit (other than he had no chance; by that token, FMJ and RJJ have hardly had a legit fight between them), but whatever. I'm not that impressed with Nonito's comp either, but I don't see his p4p peers having much stronger streaks. Sergio: Dz, Barker, Macklin, then preferably Chavez. To me this is worse than Donaire Ward: Green, Bika, AA, Froch. Other than Froch, is there a p4p top 100 here? Wlad: no comment needed

Narvaez is still no 1 with The Ring 3 pounds south of where he got routed by Donaire. Who cares what everyone is saying, hardly anyone watches or knows these classes. I don't see how you can complain about this one on principle. Yes, Donaire looked much bigger, he still made weight every time when competing at 112, 115. Sid, I just told you he sat out for over a year. That'll often cause you to drop out of the ratings, depending on your promotional affiliation. It's not like he came back from 3 years off like Winky. Dzinziruk had a worse stint of inactivity, got him a fight for the MW championship, where he'd never even competed. Narvaez had no shot going in and it was not a legit title defense. I'm sorry but it wasn't. Winky should have stayed gone when he came back for Williams, it showed he was past it by suffering that layoff, and he's going to get brutalized by Quillin on June 2nd. Dzinziruk had his period of inactivity, but it's still different. After losing to Moreno, Sydorenko was a non factor at anyweight around there. Dzinziruk was still unbeaten and had beaten Santos and Julio at 154. While it wasn't his weight class, it was still different than Sydorenko fighting Donaire. We can agree to disagree. I just feel like Donaire gets too many passes for being the supposed 2nd coming and a Top 10 P4P fighter. His reusme isn't what you'd think it is considering all the praise and hype he gets.

Knowing about the TR GB beef why do constantly bring up Moreno/Mares vs Donaire.... (Plus hasn't Moreno passed on that because of $ already?) If you read my other posts, I already said the most realistic options for Donaire at 122 are Nishioka and Rigondeaux because if TR/GBP. I think he'll fight Nishioka in the Spring 2013 after Arce in the fall, that is if he doesn't jump to 126 starting in 2013. I doubt he'll ever fight Rigondeaux.

Morel and De La Mora were ehhhhh and not that legit of fights as well, but who had Mares fought prior to that??? Yhonny Perez, Vic Darchinyan, and Joseph Agbeko twice. Narvaez was a joke, everyone was saying that. Sydorenko was a non factor at 118 when Donaire fought him, that's why it wasn't a legit fight. He hadn't done anything since losing to Moreno. No one thought that was a legit fight. Just call it like it is. Sydorenko meant something when Moreno fought him, because he was one of the Top ranked BW's and had beaten Agbeko and Cordoba. When Donaire fought him, he'd lost to Moreno, wasn't inside the Top 10 anymore, and hadn't done s**t in 2 years. Don't give the guy passes he shouldn't get. Narvaez is still no 1 with The Ring 3 pounds south of where he got routed by Donaire. Who cares what everyone is saying, hardly anyone watches or knows these classes. I don't see how you can complain about this one on principle. Yes, Donaire looked much bigger, he still made weight every time when competing at 112, 115. Sid, I just told you he sat out for over a year. That'll often cause you to drop out of the ratings, depending on your promotional affiliation. It's not like he came back from 3 years off like Winky. Dzinziruk had a worse stint of inactivity, got him a fight for the MW championship, where he'd never even competed.

Okay. Well at least you think he should fight them. Knowing about the TR GB beef why do constantly bring up Moreno/Mares vs Donaire.... (Plus hasn't Moreno passed on that because of $ already?)

Substitute Rigos name for any other fighter listed in the op and you will see I'm not giving reasons/excuses for not fighting anyone.... Simply asking is anyone listed fighting that much better comp as of late then Donaire (late like in the last couple of fights....) And Yes..... Hoping for Nishioka 1st Okay. Well at least you think he should fight them.

Do you think in Rigo's last couple of fights and in his next one, the fighters he has faced are they much better then Donaire's opponents, worse, about the same??? But that's giving the guy an excuse that he shouldn't fight them. Ramos and Vazquez Jr were about equal, with Ramos actually having done more than WV2 had. Mares, aside from the Montiel fight, has fought tougher competition than Donaire as of late, that's not even close. So basically what you're saying, or implying ever so slightly, is that Donaire shouldn't have to fight those guys at 122??? Do you think Donaire should fight Rigondeaux, Nishioka, Mares/Moreno, before leaving 122???? Yes or no??? Substitute Rigos name for any other fighter listed in the op and you will see I'm not giving reasons/excuses for not fighting anyone.... Simply asking is anyone listed fighting that much better comp as of late then Donaire (late like in the last couple of fights....) And Yes..... Hoping for Nishioka 1st

Donaire had only been at 118 for a single bout before fighting Narvaez (after Moreno passed), who's still probably the top guy at 115, at least top 3. If he's crap, what would you say about Mares and Moreno's opponents this weekend? How's he any less legit than AA at 168, for example? At least he's a classy boxer. The Ring number 1 superfly getting a chance at a title 3 pounds up, now there's a scandal. Also, what makes you think Sidorenko was crap at that point? He probably wasn't ranked since he was inactive for over a year, but it's not like the Moreno fights were ages ago, and not like he looked like crap before Donaire. Morel and De La Mora were ehhhhh and not that legit of fights as well, but who had Mares fought prior to that??? Yhonny Perez, Vic Darchinyan, and Joseph Agbeko twice. Narvaez was a joke, everyone was saying that. Sydorenko was a non factor at 118 when Donaire fought him, that's why it wasn't a legit fight. He hadn't done anything since losing to Moreno. No one thought that was a legit fight. Just call it like it is. Sydorenko meant something when Moreno fought him, because he was one of the Top ranked BW's and had beaten Agbeko and Cordoba. When Donaire fought him, he'd lost to Moreno, wasn't inside the Top 10 anymore, and hadn't done s**t in 2 years. Don't give the guy passes he shouldn't get.

After Donaire beat Mthalane in 2008, a Top 10 Flyweight at the time, he's only had 2 legit fights in his last 9 (if he does indeed fight Mijares). Raul Martinez was ehhhhh, the guy had never done anyting and wasn't even in the Top 10 at Flyweight. Rafael Concepcion was a crap fight, for an interim title. Manuel Vargas was a crap fight. Hernan Marquez was an alright fight, it was legit. Still though, Hernan wasn't in the Top 10 at Super Flyweight at the time, and was coming off a crappy loss. Still though, Donaire gets credit for that as an alright win since Hernan has gone on to do well though. Syodrenko was crap at that point, he wasn't ranked in the Top 10 after losing to Moreno and was a non factor at 118 at the time. Fernando Montiel was a very very good fight. He was Top 10 P4P at the time, the best BW in the world. He gets full credit for that. Omar Narvaez was a joke. He had a no business fighting at 118 for a title, that was beyond a joke. Wilfredo Vazquez Jr was a crap fight. His only step up against Arce, his only legit fight prior to fighting Donaire, he got TKO'd, and that was for a title??? And MIjares is a joke as well, a crap fight. The guy has done nothing since 2008 and is a non factor at 122, crappy fight. Why not at least fight Terrazas, coming off beating Montiel. Or Mathebula, coming off beating Ndlovu, has a title and is a Top 10 122 lb fighter. The guy gets too many passes from people. Donaire had only been at 118 for a single bout before fighting Narvaez (after Moreno passed), who's still probably the top guy at 115, at least top 3. If he's crap, what would you say about Mares and Moreno's opponents this weekend? How's he any less legit than AA at 168, for example? At least he's a classy boxer. The Ring number 1 superfly getting a chance at a title 3 pounds up, now there's a scandal. Also, what makes you think Sidorenko was crap at that point? He probably wasn't ranked since he was inactive for over a year, but it's not like the Moreno fights were ages ago, and not like he looked like crap before Donaire.

I just started watching the lower weight classes i watched the showtime tourney which really was mares' highlight reel for me and really perked my interest in these weight classes. that being said i honestly have never watched nishioka the only japanese fighter i follow is uchiyama. Donaire's comment about Rigo is unacceptable because Donaire faught like crap his last two outings I don't think he is a bad boxer what I see as Donaire's achilles heel will be his ego and his promoter protecting him. This, to me, is going to make him foolish and will slip up. Mares on the other hand is determined to fight the best win or lose as he stated and he does have a fan friendly style but like you said Goldenboy and Top Rank would never offer up their two brightest stars to make an excellent fight. Which is ironic because in promotion aren't the best fights the most appealing??

after reading your post 4corners i am even less inclined to believe that donaire deserves an easy pass i mean if your last legit competition was 2 years ago and you are still hyped up to be a top p4p contender then something is seriously wrong. After watching Mares-Morel and Moreno-De la Mora I want to see those two go at it or Rigo versus them tbh I do not like Donaire I think he is Arum's new pacquaio or thats what Arum is attempting to make him. If donaire does step up to anyone of his real peers( Mares Moreno Rigo) then he gets out boxed and beaten up. I stil think Donaire beats Mares H2H, but that fight is a pipe dream. Golden Boy and Top Rank won't make that fight together. And I think Donaire-Moreno is 50/50, but again, Golden Boy and Top Rank beef will be the reason it doesn't happen. Donaire-Rigondeaux, 50/50 in my opinion. But Nonito openly said it won't happen because Rigo is too boring.......Get the f**k outta here Donaire. Donaire-Nishioka, I'd favor Donaire, and this fight could still potentially happen. Donaire will most likely fight Mijares in July (crappy fight) and than Arce in the fall. Arce is an alright fight, at least he TKO'd WV2, but he's still not as good a fight as Mares-Moreno-Nishioka-Rigondeaux. Than, after Arce, I see him either fighting Nishioka or moving up to 126.

after reading your post 4corners i am even less inclined to believe that donaire deserves an easy pass i mean if your last legit competition was 2 years ago and you are still hyped up to be a top p4p contender then something is seriously wrong. After watching Mares-Morel and Moreno-De la Mora I want to see those two go at it or Rigo versus them tbh I do not like Donaire I think he is Arum's new pacquaio or thats what Arum is attempting to make him. If donaire does step up to anyone of his real peers( Mares Moreno Rigo) then he gets out boxed and beaten up.

My question in all this is what has donaire done to be elevated so much above these guys?? like another poster said earlier aside from the montiel blitzkrieg i dont think Donaire has looked stellar. in his last two outings he couldnt put away two overly matched opponents and even struggled to damage them as opposed to his peers who have all been making impressive performances in their most recent bouts(mares,Rigo,Moreno). After Donaire beat Mthalane in 2008, a Top 10 Flyweight at the time, he's only had 2 legit fights in his last 9 (if he does indeed fight Mijares). Raul Martinez was ehhhhh, the guy had never done anyting and wasn't even in the Top 10 at Flyweight. Rafael Concepcion was a crap fight, for an interim title. Manuel Vargas was a crap fight. Hernan Marquez was an alright fight, it was legit. Still though, Hernan wasn't in the Top 10 at Super Flyweight at the time, and was coming off a crappy loss. Still though, Donaire gets credit for that as an alright win since Hernan has gone on to do well though. Syodrenko was crap at that point, he wasn't ranked in the Top 10 after losing to Moreno and was a non factor at 118 at the time. Fernando Montiel was a very very good fight. He was Top 10 P4P at the time, the best BW in the world. He gets full credit for that. Omar Narvaez was a joke. He had a no business fighting at 118 for a title, that was beyond a joke. Wilfredo Vazquez Jr was a crap fight. His only step up against Arce, his only legit fight prior to fighting Donaire, he got TKO'd, and that was for a title??? And MIjares is a joke as well, a crap fight. The guy has done nothing since 2008 and is a non factor at 122, crappy fight. Why not at least fight Terrazas, coming off beating Montiel. Or Mathebula, coming off beating Ndlovu, has a title and is a Top 10 122 lb fighter. The guy gets too many passes from people.

Among the "Donaire Peers" mentioned in topic, only Mares has been fighting real competition. And as for the Rigo match-up w/ Donaire.. good thing Donaire did'nt fought Rigo.. I don't wanna see Donaire fighting someone w/ less than a dozen pro-fights.. I don't care how good he is, how stellar his amateur record was nor his wicked skills.. Rigo still needs to fight more and I mean MORE. Rigo's W-L record is for starters.. Heck back in the days that record is for 17~19 y.o. teenagers.. Yeah I know the kid has game, but that is just it. When you're ready, you're ready. The amount of fights you have means nothing. Usually it requires that many fights to make a name and acquire the experience needed to be ready. It's not the case for Rigo, he's ready now. 9 or 20 fights, nothing changes that. Get use to it.

My question in all this is what has donaire done to be elevated so much above these guys?? like another poster said earlier aside from the montiel blitzkrieg i dont think Donaire has looked stellar. in his last two outings he couldnt put away two overly matched opponents and even struggled to damage them as opposed to his peers who have all been making impressive performances in their most recent bouts(mares,Rigo,Moreno).

Do you think in Rigo's last couple of fights and in his next one, the fighters he has faced are they much better then Donaire's opponents, worse, about the same??? But that's giving the guy an excuse that he shouldn't fight them. Ramos and Vazquez Jr were about equal, with Ramos actually having done more than WV2 had. Mares, aside from the Montiel fight, has fought tougher competition than Donaire as of late, that's not even close. So basically what you're saying, or implying ever so slightly, is that Donaire shouldn't have to fight those guys at 122??? Do you think Donaire should fight Rigondeaux, Nishioka, Mares/Moreno, before leaving 122???? Yes or no???

Also, Mares has been consistent with his competition while Donaire downgrades.

Do you think in Rigo's last couple of fights and in his next one, the fighters he has faced are they much better then Donaire's opponents, worse, about the same??? Ramos was a good fight. I think 4Corners pointed it out already but I don't agree with Teon Kennedy as an opponent. But again, we're are talking about a P4P fighter who should be fighting the best no? Instead he's fighting nobody. Rigo has been calling Donaire out, "the best" and Donaire doesnt want none.