Has Manny improved?

ALL OF THE FIGHTERS YOU MENTIONED ARE BETTER THAN PACQUIAO.... PACQUIAO HAS NO BOXING SKILLS AND RELIES HEAVILY ON HIS ATHLETICISM.... Hes a weaker Roy Jones IMO..... Simply put PAC cannot box, and he will be fighting many years from now, just watch. Because he doesnt have as much money as you guys think..... Marquez is a very good fighter. Ask anyone .... they had 3 great fights .... Frazier and Norton gave Ali just as much if not more problems than Marquez did to Manny. Right? Could you imagine if there were forums back then? They would be saying the same about Ali and his chances against Foreman ..... the Foreman who KOed both Frazier and Norton easily! While the type of fighters mentioned are not the same but its still an example of you can't always judge by how he fought against 1 and sometimes 2 opponents. Nobody is going to say Manny is a great boxer but he is a decent boxer who should not be trying to out box a boxer such as Marquez. As I said in another post, the game plan Roach had for Manny was all wrong when they fought at 144lbs.

Ah .. you see my point. Like most things in life, things are usually distinguished by patterns/habits. When you are a fan of boxing and you've seen a fighter box a few times, you can recognize when he's is sharp and when he is coming in seemingly gunshy or for a lack of a better word "different". Clottey came in "different" for Pacquiao. Clottey usually takes chances and is a much busier fighter. He did none of that with Pacquiao and Pacquiao even backed off to give Joshua room to work so the fight wouldn't stink so badly. Joshua wouldn't bite. But yeah .. win or lose Clottey usually comes to fight. Funny I just read your signature and this is my humble reply. "Asking for catchweight then came overweight is an admission of cowardice in a fair fight ."

except Marquez Just because he didnt improve his game against Marquez therefore there is no improvements on his overall style? Whoever thinks like this is stupid to the bone. Even if Pac didnt improve at all, beating prime Barrera is better than all the fighters in Floyd resume.

Manny is not on the decline. Manny Pacquiao is the same boxer who fought Barrera and Morales. He's no different. Its just that he's run out of losers to target, and when that happened, he had to step up against men who can box and move instead of just losers who plod forward and retreat backwards. Mosley ran but showed that Pacquiao isn't effective at all unless you stand and trade. JMM simply moved to the sides after punching and left Manny looking confused and desperate. Manny has NOT improved. If he has in one aspect, its in stamina. His stamina to dart in and out for 12 rounds is impressive. As a technical boxer, no he hasn't even made any adjustments. His approach and methods are ALL the same with some added stamina. Those things are the measure of improvement. Idiot! You talk like Marquez is some kind of a bum who give Pac problems. Marquez style is the way to beat Pacquaio but still came up short but you talk like everybody can duplicate Marquez style. After Pac vs Marquez 1 ended in a, draw the blue print to beat Pacquaio was laid down clearly to follow by his last 10 opponents but guess what happened? Pacquaio still beat the hell out of them in one sided fashion inculding Mosley.

damn this thread still going.

I understand. I wasn't supposed to challenge your opinion and I was supposed to just accept your word as gospel. Sorry that didn't work out for you. Enjoy the cyber-coloring book. It's more along the lines of trying to read a Bible and inevitably finding out there's no actual meaning / point...like the real Bible. The color font actually gives the Bible a bit of decor.

Give one instance where Manny's technical improvement is evident. Just one. Manny is the same exact fighter he was in 2003. Its not that he's improved at all. Its that he was set up against guys that he could take more chances with. Think about it. We've all seen Clottey fight before. NEVER .. in ANY of his fights has he just covered up and made no attempt to attack. We've all seen Mosley fight before. NEVER .. in ANY of his fights has Mosley spent the entire fight on his bicycle. Win, lose or draw ... a fighter will perform the way he was trained. They will win that way, and they will lose that way. You just don't see world class fighters coming in after 10-15 years in the game trying some totally new approach in a mega fight. I've seen Mosley lose before his loss to Pacquiao. When Mosley looses, it looks like what happened against Vernon Forrest. Not that crap he did against Pacquiao. Maybe some fans are fooled by that nonsense, but anyone in and around the game knows that EVERY boxer has habits, tells and a certain way of fighting when it gets thick. When they begin looking like they are fighting their own instincts and style its clear that something is amiss. Its easy to look good against men who refuse to fight back from the onset. Its also easy to look good against men who have adopted a plod forward/trade type of style if you can actually box and move. So again, where is the evidence of improvement as it pertains to Pacquiao? Is someone going to say that he throws a new punch? Seriously? When we saw Manny Pacquiao embarrassed against JMM, how well did those "new" punches serve him? In order to be considered an improvement, the fighter has to have demonstrated success with something new. Every time Pacquiao gets hit, he goes right back to doing what he's always done: Darting in passed an opponents left jab with a right jab and then immediately throws the straight left. He's predictable, and that's the exact reason why JMM was so easily able to make him look the way he did in their last fight. It wasn't luck, magic or coincidence. actually I saw one of clottey's early fights on espn classic or something and he was throwing a TON of bombs. got the KO. dont know why hes not more offensive minded, dude's got power. but then again thats just one fight and I havent seen all his fights so yeah maybe it was just a one off thing...

floyd stans are two-faced morons. on one side, they believe pac needs to be tested because according to the preachings of their idol, you can't go from being an ordinary fighter to extraordinary. on the other side, they portray pac as amateurish, one-handed, non-improving and carefully matched fighter. these idiots are already trying to condition their minds in case the fight doesn't happen because floyd wants all the revenues to himself...that the fight doesn't really need to happen because floyd easily beats pac...in fantasy that is. in fairness to some logical floyd fans, i do agree that floyd should be favored to beat pac but there's only one way to find out. unfortunately, it looks like we'll never get to find out and so we're gonna have to deal with all these retarded floyd/pac debates in nsb as long as these morons doesn't get a job to keep them busy.

just x1 observation... You havent mentioned anything about pacs improvements... Oy, kumusta kabayan! I guess, from your response, you failed to understand the point I was driving at. By showing the stupid contradictions in your arguments, my post actually exposed the kind of garbage you guys have been spewing. Here, read the post again and if you still don't get it, you never will. http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11940099&postcount=61

This thread is solid proof that Floyd fans are the worst currently circulating the net. They will do absolutely anything to divert attention away from Floyd and his lack of dangerous fights policies. They are embarassed for floyd, so try take the spotlight off of him and put it on suprise, suprise Pac who is his most respect rival and peer.

Whats in it for me??? LETS SEE, I CAN ADD A FEW BENJAMINS TO MY POCKETS BASED ON YOU NUT HUGGERS THAT THINK PAC HAS A CHANCE LOL..... I MADE 7 K LAST FIGHT, I can easily make over 10 k with a bunch of retards.... Devastating irony.:lol1:

Whats in it for me??? LETS SEE, I CAN ADD A FEW BENJAMINS TO MY POCKETS BASED ON YOU NUT HUGGERS THAT THINK PAC HAS A CHANCE LOL..... I MADE 7 K LAST FIGHT, I can easily make over 10 k with a bunch of retards.... What garcia is simply saying is Floyd have been denying you guys the chance to see him turn your fantasies into realities, yet you still defend him like he's your boyfriend or something. Hope that helps. :usa2:

You just proved my point. You stans don't really mean it when you say all these things about Pac being amateurish, Floyd would beat the crap out of him and all that. I'll keep it simple for you. Ask yourself, "What's in it for me if the fight doesn't happen?" Obviously, you don't get to see your boy beat the amateurish midget. You're stuck with fantasy fights. If you're satisfied with that, that's okay with me. I'm not the one saying Floyd would surely beat the amateur boxer. At the end of the day, the fight didn't happen. Did you gain anything from it? Nothing. You're robbed of seeing Floyd school Pac. If that's fine with you all the more so with me. I could laugh at your idol for being a pu55y for the rest of his life. Thanks for the entertainment. ;-) Whats in it for me??? LETS SEE, I CAN ADD A FEW BENJAMINS TO MY POCKETS BASED ON YOU NUT HUGGERS THAT THINK PAC HAS A CHANCE LOL..... I MADE 7 K LAST FIGHT, I can easily make over 10 k with a bunch of retards....

LOL! Also LMAO@ an entire people supporting Imelda Marcos spending YOUR money on designer shoes that could have fed a nation of starving children .. and you all calling it "patriotism". You all sure are stupid, but at least your first lady looks good! Learn to laugh at yourself. It builds character. :lol1: LMAO!!!!! GOOD ONE BRO, GODDAMN PEASANTS.... http://www.everydayminimalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/imelda-marcos-shoes-collection.jpg WHILE THEY EAT SLUDGE AND TOXIC WASTE!!! LMAO HERE SHE IS AGAIN LOOKING IN HER SOLID GOLD PLATED HAND MIRROR!!!! LMAO http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/imelda/images/home_left.jpg

No, It's not about Floyd. This thread has become about you and the rest of Floyd fanatics who are too dumb to see the stupidity in their arguments. Just like what CGarcia has mentioned, you guys have endlessly tried to discredit Pac with all the bs you can come up with, yet at the same time you have also rabidly defended Floyd's excuses and roadblocks that prevented this fight with this one-dimensional, amateurish, cherry picker midget from happening. congrats manny you scraped by the worlds best light weight.

WTF are you even talking about? Is this thread about Floyd? Wow. No, It's not about Floyd. This thread has become about you and the rest of Floyd fanatics who are too dumb to see the stupidity in their arguments. Just like what CGarcia has mentioned, you guys have endlessly tried to discredit Pac with all the bs you can come up with, yet at the same time you have also rabidly defended Floyd's excuses and roadblocks that prevented this fight with this one-dimensional, amateurish, cherry picker midget from happening.

In negotiations I remember a 14 day compromise the first time... The judge stated TOP RANK AND CO BACKED OUT, or did you forget about that???PACS NET WORTH IS 26 MILLION. HE HAS NEVER EVEN MADE 26 MILLION IN ANY FIGHT.... So why would he expect some ungodly number now??? LOL You just proved my point. You stans don't really mean it when you say all these things about Pac being amateurish, Floyd would beat the crap out of him and all that. I'll keep it simple for you. Ask yourself, "What's in it for me if the fight doesn't happen?" Obviously, you don't get to see your boy beat the amateurish midget. You're stuck with fantasy fights. If you're satisfied with that, that's okay with me. I'm not the one saying Floyd would surely beat the amateur boxer. At the end of the day, the fight didn't happen. Did you gain anything from it? Nothing. You're robbed of seeing Floyd school Pac. If that's fine with you all the more so with me. I could laugh at your idol for being a pu55y for the rest of his life. Thanks for the entertainment. ;-)

boxing fury didnt watch the fight in slow motion

JMM is the only measuring stick I would have to use. He's the only opponent that was still on top when Pacquiao faced him! The others were coming off career losses, were dehydrated and were stipulated not to come in on fight night above a certain weight. You obviously don't understand what improvement is. I have made it clear as day. You haven't refuted even one of my points. I have refuted SEVERAL of yours. You're content to believe what you do based on your own opinion. I was open to listen to you explain how what you're describing is "improvement". You felt that describing what Manny did was a testament to how much he improved. It wasn't. It was just a re-telling, not an explanation. Manny could ALWAYS throw different punches. What was he .. an idiot? He just became aware of a right hook and uppercut for the Cotto fight? You talk worse about him than any so-called floydiot. Manny could always throw different punches. Its just that at the lower weights faster fighters would make him pay for it. That's why he picked the plodders at WW. He needed a clear speed advantage. I've already agreed to disagree with you. But the day I'm "in over my head" in a discussion with you about ANYTHING you'll be President of the United States. Just because you won't acknowledge my points doesn't mean that you've won anything ... because ignorance is not a defense, my man. You literally haven't refuted one of my points. We are operating on entirely different levels. The manner in which he's been fighting is different than how he fought at the lower weights, this is fact. He wasn't a counter puncher then, he's a good counter puncher now. That's not SOLELY a product of his competition he has improved in the ring. He thinks more, he sets things up. This doesn't equate to "he has always thrown different punches" you're literally just making things up cause you can't comprehend the point. He could always throw a right hook true...but never did he, in a calculating manner, use it accurately while countering over an opponent's jab(one of the best jabs in the sport). And your refute to this?........"Cotto was drained". And before Marquez 3 I bet you were one of the many(myself included) to criticize the opponent, fighting a blown up 38 year old two divisions above his weight. Now he was "at his best" and "on top". I have used actual observations while you have done nothing but talk about Pacquiao's competition. The most ironic part is........I don't like Pacquiao and I'm a huge Floyd fan. But to say he's the same fighter that he was at the lower weights is asisnine. He has evolved, he's had to.......