Ok I see a lot of people posting about how Cotto and Bradley add up as opponents to Floyd and Pacquiao. Cotto was not a good opponent for Pacquiao for June and is considered a decent opponent for Floyd. I can understand why many feel this is a double standard but if you look a little deeper it makes sense.You could even say that Bradley would have been a questionable opponent for Floyd but is a decent opponent of Pacquiao. This would also be correct.
Lets look at Pacquiao Bradley first. When Pacquiao made his rise in weight he defeated Ricky Hatton for a title at 140lbs. In the aftermath many felt that Bradley was a more difficult style match up and that Pacquiao should have cleaned out the division since there was talent there. Well here is Tim Bradley, still undefeated, still with the same style, and facing Pacquiao after Manny has looked a little more vulnerable than we are used to seeing in recent years. Whats there to complain about? This is not to say Bradley will win but he is a quality opponent that may be difficult. He is also a high risk low reward type of fight. Boxing fans should appreciate this.
Now if Floyd were facing Bradley the feeling would be different. Floyd's critics have often complained when he has fought at welterweight against foes that were not accustomed to competing there. Bradley would fall into that category. Bradley is of world class skill level however due to the styles its not very likely people would be enthusiastic about his chances in a Mayweather match-up. This could change if Bradley is impressive against Pacquiao of course. The fight makes more sense for Pacquiao as it stands today.
Next lets look at Cotto against Mayweather. This is a fight that should have taken place after Cotto defeated Shane Mosley. Many have clamored for it for years. The biggest criticism for the fight is that Cotto has suffered two difficult losses and in some aspects is no longer the same fighter. Both fair criticisms. There also those who complain about Cotto being looked at as a terrible opponent for Pacquiao but acceptable for Floyd. Again due to the styles Cotto makes more sense as an opponent for Floyd. Cotto still has elements to his game that can make this potential match-up interesting. Also after defeating some past demons this past December in his TKO victory over Antonio Margarito, Cotto may in fact have a confidence we have not seen from him recently. That remains to be seen though. Again this is not to say that at this stage Miguel Cotto will defeat Floyd Mayweather but his selection as an opponent is solid.
The reason that a Pacquiao match-up with Cotto does not spark an interest is because the first fight in all honesty was not that competitive. Sure Cotto had some moments when he employed his jab but there was not much there to make most feel that he would be able to pull off the upset if given a second chance. Perhaps he would be more competitive now with a solid trainer and the opportunity to review the success Juan Manuel Marquez had against Pacquiao this November. Still pulling off the upset seems a bit far fetched.
The bottom line is different opponents can make for different challenges. With what we saw with Pacquiao and Marquez in November would anyone be excited to see a Floyd Mayweather vs Juan Manuel Marquez rematch? Very doubtful. Yet Marquez would still remain as a legit opponent for Pacquiao.The fights we will see in both May and June are quality fights. Though the world awaits the day we get to see the two best fighters in the world face each other, we should not downplay when they select quality opposition. Timothy Bradley and Miguel Cotto will be underdogs and rightfully so. That does not mean they are not legit opponents and to a certain degree risky.
Cotto's not the same because he's been through many tough fights
yes he was better at WW, but that's because he was younger/fresher
functionally, he's the same fighter, though with less power
and Pac beat bigger WW's with ease because he was faster than them
has nothing to do with him supposedly growing into a WW frame
Pac is physically just a JWW with speed that allows him to beat WW's
he won't have the same speed advantage over Bradley as other WW's
and he sure as hell isn't gonna be stronger than Tim at WW
don't see any reason why the weight matters in these fights
just fine, not good
it was nothing but a tuneup/tryout at the weight
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/ad8419b56834e079670a7c9db9b4613a13f72da13d37aec23dd2a00808e334474g.jpg
I've been critical of Floyd over recent time, but I have not problem with him fighting Cotto at 154.
As for the Pac vs. Bradley, I'm not that interested in it.
Yeah I think as fans sometimes we get overly critical and dont realize when we have someting of quality in front of us.
First thread I read in a while from this section that actually makes sense.
I would also add that Mayweather is fighting Cotto at 154. If Mayweather fought Cotto before going into "retirement" it probably would be at 147. This fight at 154 should be more competitive.
Mayweather couldnt get the Pac fight so he made the second fight most money generating fight possible which is Cotto and he deserves the $30 million payday.
I've been critical of Floyd over recent time, but I have not problem with him fighting Cotto at 154.
As for the Pac vs. Bradley, I'm not that interested in it.
I dont agree with the weight part. I think Floyd & Pac win either way but I think its a lil different. IDK how Cotto would look at WW right now but Floyd would flat out destroy him at that weight. He probably does it anyway but he doesnt have any chance at all at WW.
The same for Bradley. Castillo was a good fighter who bullied every single guy at LW but even when he fought bums at 140 he looked like crap. Bradley is the same way. He's a beast at 140 but at WW I dont think he's anything special at all. I think Pac beats him either way but its alot better fight at 140. At WW Pac runs through him in 5 or less IMO.
I don't think weight will be too much of an issue for Pacquiao and Bradley. Yes Bradley is coming up to welterweight again but I don't see it having a negative effect in this case. Like when Floyd fought Hatton you have to consider that the "bigger guy" actually spent most of his career at a lower weight class than the "smaller guy". Bradley would be at disadvantage perhaps against a bigger welterweight were the physical difference is more pronounced. In this case I think he enters the ring the same size he would at 140lbs. The weight with Floyd and Cotto favors Cotto. Its what helps make this fight intriguing.
that killer instinct retired the moment he made congress
I think its still there. He just has to be in with the right type of guys. Pacquiao gets a bit frustrated when guys don't play into what he is trying to do.
To long to read, however there is a very good reason why Cotto is good for Floyd & not Pacman.
It's weightclass. Floyd doesn't need a drained Cotto. However even though the general concensus is that Pacman beats Cotto at any weight, for some really weird reason team Pacman wants none of Cotto above 148. It doesn't take rocket science for me, but others are confused by that.
I know its a long post but take a look when you get a chance. I would like to hear your feedback.
I feel both as opponents on certain levels, they are quality guys that were certainly at the front of the line of available opposition. I still don't think either challenger can win though.
I have no issue with Manny choosing Bradley, he is a reasonable credible opponent who is about the same size, Bradley is a bit beefier but height and range they are close. I don't think Manny will run through him because Bradley is good at limiting what the other guys does, but I think it will take everything he has to limit Manny leaving little in the way in terms of offense.
I have no issue with Floyd chosing Cotto because it is a fight people have wanted for a long time plus Cotto seems to be back on track and he is a quality credible opponent. I don't find Cotto all that much different than in the past but I never gave Cotto much of a shot so hard to change that stance.
It is so tiresome getting hung up marginal issues though.
Good points
I think both fights will be more competitive than people expect. I think Pac and Floyd are both going to win but it could get interesting. Neither Cotto nor Bradley are winning a decision, and neither have the power I don't think to stop Pac or Floyd, so that being said...I am not sure what options they have to win (i.e. Bradley and Cotto).
For Floyd/Cotto, I think it will be interesting because it is at 154. This will be a better version of Cotto than Manny faced because he is not weight drained, and he is coming off of several wins, not a brutal loss. Cotto feels rejuvenated with his new trainer and at JMW. However, I am just not sure if Cotto is fast enough or has enough power to hurt/stop Floyd. That shot Mosley hit Floyd with in the 2nd round of their right would have knocked over a bull and Floyd recovered quick and iced him the next 10 rounds. Cotto never had 1 punch power and no one lands shot after shot against Floyd so...I just cannot see Cotto winning this. I also think Floyd hits harder than people think and he may do some damage to Cotto over the course of the fight. I predict a UD or late rounds stoppage in favor of Floyd. But Cotto may surprise everyone, I am keeping that in the back of my mind. The only chance Cotto has to beat Floyd is by stopping him, that is a fact. There is no way in hell I think Cotto can outbox Floyd for 12 rounds.
I think the Pac/Bradley matchup is more open for an upset though to be honest. Pac has not fought anyone who is in their prime, fast and aggressive in a long long time. If Bradley can take Mannys shots or do a good job of avoiding them, Pac may be in for a long night. Pac is also open for shots, he always has been and he has definitely slowed down. Also after the JMM fight his confidence will be suspect as well. I think Bradley is cagier and more determined than people think and this may be a close call. I do predict Manny to win but I think it will be a SD, or questionable UD to setup JMM/Manny IV (or Floyd in the spring of '13). Or I could be wrong and Manny may come out guns blazing because of the JMM fight and beat Bradley convincingly. Call me crazy, but I just do not see Manny stopping Bradley, my gut is telling me that isn't going to happen.
Just as Floyd wouldn't fight Bradley at 140 also. :D
But, Floyds at least going up to Cottos weight.
Pac is bringing Bradley up, or would of brought Cotto down.
I feel both as opponents on certain levels, they are quality guys that were certainly at the front of the line of available opposition. I still don't think either challenger can win though.
I have no issue with Manny choosing Bradley, he is a reasonable credible opponent who is about the same size, Bradley is a bit beefier but height and range they are close. I don't think Manny will run through him because Bradley is good at limiting what the other guys does, but I think it will take everything he has to limit Manny leaving little in the way in terms of offense.
I have no issue with Floyd chosing Cotto because it is a fight people have wanted for a long time plus Cotto seems to be back on track and he is a quality credible opponent. I don't find Cotto all that much different than in the past but I never gave Cotto much of a shot so hard to change that stance.
It is so tiresome getting hung up marginal issues though.
To long to read, however there is a very good reason why Cotto is good for Floyd & not Pacman.
It's weightclass. Floyd doesn't need a drained Cotto. However even though the general concensus is that Pacman beats Cotto at any weight, for some really weird reason team Pacman wants none of Cotto above 148. It doesn't take rocket science for me, but others are confused by that.
again, I think Floyd & Pac win either way but Cotto has a better shot at 154 and Bradley has a better shot at 140. There are alot of people who would pick Ortiz to beat Cotto right now at WW and lose to him at 154, even though he comes into the ring bigger than Cotto. There are people who think Bradley beats Ortiz at 140 and loses to him at WW.
You are not going to convince me that Cotto is the same fighter at WW right now than he is at 150-154. I just dont believe he is. You are also not going to convince me that Bradley is the same fighter at WW then he is at 140. He's not. You can say that Pac is small all you want but Pac has carried everything to WW and beaten huge guys with ease. He's more comfortable at that weight. Even Roach & Ariza think the same
Cotto's not the same because he's been through many tough fights
yes he was better at WW, but that's because he was younger/fresher
functionally, he's the same fighter, though with less power
and Pac beat bigger WW's with ease because he was faster than them
has nothing to do with him supposedly growing into a WW frame
Pac is physically just a JWW with speed that allows him to beat WW's
he won't have the same speed advantage over Bradley as other WW's
and he sure as hell isn't gonna be stronger than Tim at WW
don't see any reason why the weight matters in these fights
Both of you guys are making good points but I don't think Bradley looked good in that fight at 147.
just fine, not good
it was nothing but a tuneup/tryout at the weight
Castillo wasn't up for those other fights when he was all over the scale
he wasn't fighting big fights so he looked bad, that's understandable
weight wasn't the issue, motivation was
and Cotto just didn't wanna get jerked around by Pac again
that wasn't about the weight itself, but Pac dictating to him
Pac isn't really a WW, he's just a JWW
Bradley looked just fine in a WW tryout vs Abregu
weight isn't a factor in these 2 fights dude
Both of you guys are making good points but I don't think Bradley looked good in that fight at 147.
Castillo wasn't up for those other fights when he was all over the scale
he wasn't fighting big fights so he looked bad, that's understandable
weight wasn't the issue, motivation was
and Cotto just didn't wanna get jerked around by Pac again
that wasn't about the weight itself, but Pac dictating to him
Pac isn't really a WW, he's just a JWW
Bradley looked just fine in a WW tryout vs Abregu
weight isn't a factor in these 2 fights dude
again, I think Floyd & Pac win either way but Cotto has a better shot at 154 and Bradley has a better shot at 140. There are alot of people who would pick Ortiz to beat Cotto right now at WW and lose to him at 154, even though he comes into the ring bigger than Cotto. There are people who think Bradley beats Ortiz at 140 and loses to him at WW.
You are not going to convince me that Cotto is the same fighter at WW right now than he is at 150-154. I just dont believe he is. You are also not going to convince me that Bradley is the same fighter at WW then he is at 140. He's not. You can say that Pac is small all you want but Pac has carried everything to WW and beaten huge guys with ease. He's more comfortable at that weight. Even Roach & Ariza think the same
he wasnt done at 140. Im not talking about the old washed up JLC. Im talking about his prime. He had a couple of fights there in his prime and didnt look the same.
In boxing every pound counts. Cotto might not be a full 154 pounder but he maybe alot better at 152 or even 150 then he is at 147. Those 3 pounds can make a big difference. Cotto was huge when he was at 140. He was always a WW just fighting at a smaller weight. It was obvious he still would rather fight Pac if all things were even and was willing to come to 150, yet he threw the fight away just 3 pounds lower. That tells you its a real problem for him.
So what that Bradley comes in bigger. Rios comes in bigger at LW than Floyd at WW but that doesnt make him better or stronger at the weight than Floyd. Bradley does not look good above 140 and both Floyd & Pac are bad matchups for him anyways
Castillo wasn't up for those other fights when he was all over the scale
he wasn't fighting big fights so he looked bad, that's understandable
weight wasn't the issue, motivation was
and Cotto just didn't wanna get jerked around by Pac again
that wasn't about the weight itself, but Pac dictating to him
Pac isn't really a WW, he's just a JWW
Bradley looked just fine in a WW tryout vs Abregu
weight isn't a factor in these 2 fights dude
that killer instinct retired the moment he made congress
I disagree but even if that were true, that doesnt mean that Pac has regressed any. He's just boxing more which will be more than enough against the Cotto's Margarito's, Clottey's, and Mosley's of the world. Its just never going to look as good against master boxers like JMM or Floyd.
I disagree anyways though. Again, that guy was pretty much there against Mosley. He dropped him and tried to chase him all night. He didnt do it much against JMM because he had hell in the first 2 fights so they wanted to try something a lil different or just flat out couldnt anyways because JMM is that good.
Trust me, Bradley will be there to be got and Pac has taken more criticism then at any recent point of his career so he will be hungry and wanted to prove something. Bradley's getting done in
Floyd isn't gonna come in as a fully bulked up JMW
Cotto don't look like a real JMW himself as it is
the weight has no bearing on it
Bradley comes in heavier at JWW than Pac does at WW
Pac is sliding too, he'll win but not easily
and the Castillo thing is a bad example; he was done at 140 anyway
he wasnt done at 140. Im not talking about the old washed up JLC. Im talking about his prime. He had a couple of fights there in his prime and didnt look the same.
In boxing every pound counts. Cotto might not be a full 154 pounder but he maybe alot better at 152 or even 150 then he is at 147. Those 3 pounds can make a big difference. Cotto was huge when he was at 140. He was always a WW just fighting at a smaller weight. It was obvious he still would rather fight Pac if all things were even and was willing to come to 150, yet he threw the fight away just 3 pounds lower. That tells you its a real problem for him.
So what that Bradley comes in bigger. Rios comes in bigger at LW than Floyd at WW but that doesnt make him better or stronger at the weight than Floyd. Bradley does not look good above 140 and both Floyd & Pac are bad matchups for him anyways