What Order Do You Have These Guys In P4P?

JMM, Nonito, Sergio, Ward? I ask this because Lampley last night says pretty much everyone has Floyd & Pac 1 & 2 in whatever order but then Sergio is 3, JMM is 4, and Nonito is 5. Do you agree with that? Do you have them in different order? Do you have Ward ahead any of them? Do you have the Klit's over any of them or do you just put them down further because of there size and the weak division? Anyone else ahead of them? Mainly though, what order do you have those 4 in? JMM, nonito, ward, sergio. the only person that comes close to removing JMM from number 3 is donaire out of your list. sergio martinez and ward are both very good fighters also, but fcuk me, how over rated is martinez on these forums. JMM is still kicking ass at 38 years old.

JMM Donaire Ward Martinez W. Klitschko I have Vitaly somewhere between #15-#20.

jmm, ward, sergio, nonito

His performance in his last 2 fights would suggest that he should be very far from #1. But hey if you think Hopkins is #1 and Evander Holyfield is #2 that's your opinion. didnt he just beat marquez and mosley ? both hof unlike ortiz , this idiots never cease to amaze me BTW it's "these idiots" If you are going to insult people try not making yourself look like a complete dolt. :fing26:

Marquez Ward Donaire Martinez There shouldn't be debate about Marquez being above the rest, but the other three are interchangeable.

cause resume matters , oh wait this is your opinion , carry on , i think your opinion is stupid IMO CURRENT resumes matter. I am assuming you don't have Hopkins at #1 because he beat Tito de la Hoya RJJ Pavlik and tarver. Geez some people can't think at all.

Those 4; JMM Ward Sergio Nonito However, I think Gamboa would fit in behind JMM in terms of talent.

Tough tough question. It really depends. If I have to base it on these fighters performances in sat 2011 and now, I would have to put Ward first (even ahead of Pac and possibly of PBF). If I have to weigh in entire careers, it is (after PBF and PAC) clearly JMM followed by either Martinez or Donaire, with Ward trailing. Honestly this question really goes to show how subjective (and hence kinda pointless) p4p is.

Martinez is so overrated it's not even funny.

Mayweather Pac Donaire Ward Jmm Klit

Ward Martinez JMM Donaire

ward marquez martinez donaire

Sergio, Marquez, Nonito, Ward

Bro, if you believe that Kessler & Froch arent better than a shot cheating Margarito & a 40 year old hald dead Mosley, I don't know what to tell you. Or a shot Mosley & Ortiz as well. No need to discuss further. Floyd dominated Marquez because he was supposed to. Like I said Marquez is a lightweight. Floyd is a full blown welterweight. But that alone tells why Marquez is better than Pacman pfp. He is a lightweight that beat the supposed pfp king 2 weight classes north of where he belonged. Pac & Floyd arent full blown WW's. Pac always enters the ring at 148 and Floyd at like 150 at the most. They arent huge natural WW's like the rest of these guys. They are just so good that they can still make guys look bad.Who has Kessler ever beat? The only guy he ever beat was Froch. Im not saying he's not a good fighter and thats not a good win. Im impressed by what Ward has done but these arent super duper wins. They just arent. Most peole thought Ward would kick Froch's basic ass just like he did. Again, he lost to Kessler & shouldve lost to Dirrell. I give Ward credit for that win as Froch is an overachiever but he's not some great fighter. Neither guy to me is much over Victor Ortiz if they are at all. You just see them in a different light. How can you say Mosley was shot vs Floyd when he had just killed Margarito? Its easy to call someone shot after the fact but going into that fight everyone thought that was a big time fight. You cant take away credit from a guy after the fact. If Mosley is shot then you could easily say that Floyd is the one who shot him but ofcourse no one will look at it like that. Margarito & Mosley for Pac arent great wins but the Cotto & Clottey fight before that were pretty darn good wins and Im not with the dissin of Pac because he went 12 hard rounds with a great fighter in JMM. Again, you think he's a great fighter. Dont give me this LW stuff. You dont think he can succeed at 140? Then you might respond by saying he can succeed there but he's not a real 140 pounder but I say the same can be said about Floyd & Pac. Just like Floyd is about to go to 154 and only come into the ring at probably a 150 pounds again and still win. If youre great then you can fight above your natural weights. Dont give JMM more credit than you do the other 2 who have done it way more and are still doing it to some degree

I love Ward and while he did that in a very good division, you are still judging on a curve. Those wins arent much better if better at all then what Pac or Floyd has done recently. It just seems like that because you arent keeping them to the same standard. Those guys he beat had already just lost to not so great fighers. Sergio's been good but I still dont think the guys he beat were good enough to overtake Floyd or Pac just yet and Macklin is not going to do it either. How can you put JMM over Floyd after he dominated him? I also think the JMM-Pac fight couldve went either way but he was also dominated by Floyd a lil before that. You can say the Floyd thing was a weight issue but I aruged the whole time that it was much more about Floyd and that JMM would give Cotto or anyone else at WW hell at that time, which was then proven in the Pac fight. Pac has still been very consistent. Even if you think he's cherry picking or draining guys, I think who and how he's beaten guys is still good enough for no one other than Floyd to surpass him. You say how he looked against Mosley but he still shut him out. You have to be fair. You make it sound like he looked like crap & lost to JMM but you have JMM as the 3rd best fighter in the game so how does that make sense? Either JMM is a beast that its ok for Pac to struggle again or if Pac is not that good then you shouldnt have JMM ranked at 3 for that so called win. The leg cramps thing is annoying but JMM gave Pac hell in the first 2 fights. You cant just think that because Pac is fighting at a higher weight that he's going to kill him now like the first 2 fights didnt exist. I thought JMM owned him originaly but watching it back, I have to admit that I was judging on a curve of expectations and that Pac did alot better then I thought Bro, if you believe that Kessler & Froch arent better than a shot cheating Margarito & a 40 year old hald dead Mosley, I don't know what to tell you. Or a shot Mosley & Ortiz as well. No need to discuss further. Floyd dominated Marquez because he was supposed to. Like I said Marquez is a lightweight. Floyd is a full blown welterweight. But that alone tells why Marquez is better than Pacman pfp. He is a lightweight that beat the supposed pfp king 2 weight classes north of where he belonged.

Those specific fighters? Marquez Donaire Ward Martinez

Absolutely. Ward dominated his entire division outside of Bute. Martinez has ko'd world class fighters 3 fights straight after thoroughly beating the Lineal Middleweight champ. JMM just finished being cherrypicked by the concenious pfp king, only to thoroughly outbox him and be given an L for a W. Floyd while he cherrypicks, does so against top champs in the weight class he chooses to fight in. Donaire is a genuine pfp fighter. Broken hand, matters not. He's not higher because he chooses to now rely on his power too much. Pacman is no where in sight because the pfp king doesn't win his 154 strap against an unranked cheater in my book. Then proceeds to cherrypick a clearly shot fighter only to catch cramps aka cannot cut off the ring. Furthermore turn around & cherrypick the lineal lightweight champion & be soundly outboxed in his own weightclass, having Roach beg for a ko only to do nothing & use leg cramp excuses yet again. How is Darren Barker a world class fighter?

Absolutely. Ward dominated his entire division outside of Bute. Martinez has ko'd world class fighters 3 fights straight after thoroughly beating the Lineal Middleweight champ. JMM just finished being cherrypicked by the concenious pfp king, only to thoroughly outbox him and be given an L for a W. Floyd while he cherrypicks, does so against top champs in the weight class he chooses to fight in. Donaire is a genuine pfp fighter. Broken hand, matters not. He's not higher because he chooses to now rely on his power too much. Pacman is no where in sight because the pfp king doesn't win his 154 strap against an unranked cheater in my book. Then proceeds to cherrypick a clearly shot fighter only to catch cramps aka cannot cut off the ring. Furthermore turn around & cherrypick the lineal lightweight champion & be soundly outboxed in his own weightclass, having Roach beg for a ko only to do nothing & use leg cramp excuses yet again. I love Ward and while he did that in a very good division, you are still judging on a curve. Those wins arent much better if better at all then what Pac or Floyd has done recently. It just seems like that because you arent keeping them to the same standard. Those guys he beat had already just lost to not so great fighers. Sergio's been good but I still dont think the guys he beat were good enough to overtake Floyd or Pac just yet and Macklin is not going to do it either. How can you put JMM over Floyd after he dominated him? I also think the JMM-Pac fight couldve went either way but he was also dominated by Floyd a lil before that. You can say the Floyd thing was a weight issue but I aruged the whole time that it was much more about Floyd and that JMM would give Cotto or anyone else at WW hell at that time, which was then proven in the Pac fight. Pac has still been very consistent. Even if you think he's cherry picking or draining guys, I think who and how he's beaten guys is still good enough for no one other than Floyd to surpass him. You say how he looked against Mosley but he still shut him out. You have to be fair. You make it sound like he looked like crap & lost to JMM but you have JMM as the 3rd best fighter in the game so how does that make sense? Either JMM is a beast that its ok for Pac to struggle again or if Pac is not that good then you shouldnt have JMM ranked at 3 for that so called win. The leg cramps thing is annoying but JMM gave Pac hell in the first 2 fights. You cant just think that because Pac is fighting at a higher weight that he's going to kill him now like the first 2 fights didnt exist. I thought JMM owned him originaly but watching it back, I have to admit that I was judging on a curve of expectations and that Pac did alot better then I thought

where is Pac? Somewhere further down

:pat: , lets forget all about his past fights What the fvck does pre 2009 have to do with current 2012??