Vitaly and steroids

So, in the end, it all boils down to who you choose to believe. Nothing suggests that Vitali has been using steroids since 1996 (and this single occurrence was accidental, if you believe Vitali). The rest is pure assumption and depends on whether you personally believe the man or not. Simple as that. With the facts pointed out its easy not to believe him. Personally I believe both him and Wlad have been juicing for awhile, especially after Wlad only wanting German testing for the Povetkin fight. In their defense though I also believe most other fighters, especially heavyweights, are juicing.

So, in the end, it all boils down to who you choose to believe. Nothing suggests that Vitali has been using steroids since 1996 (and this single occurrence was accidental, if you believe Vitali). The rest is pure assumption and depends on whether you personally believe the man or not. Simple as that.

I'm just pointing out the rather simple logic that since he juiced to recover from injuries as an AM, then he didn't do it as a pro since he couldn't recover despite months and months of rescheduling. I think that forms a base for me to say that I don't think Vitali is juicing. A base that is just as strong if not stronger than your point that goes by the same reverse logic. Think about it. If Vitali is indeed a juicer, then why didn't he just recover from those injuries (which was shoulder, elbows and knees if I remember correctly) by using the proper set of roids? Why would he not do it if he was always a cheater? Why would he say goodbye to millions and millions of dollars if just by doing some more roids he'd be ready? It does form a base if you choose to believe him. Every fighter who gets caught claims it was for an injury or they didn't know what trhey were taking. Call me cynical, but I don't believe any of them. Even if it were for injury these guys know the stuff is performance enhancing, they know it is cheating. And if you're willing to cheat once you're probly willing to cheat again in my opinion.

This is where we differ. I think its the exact same thing. Doesn't matter pro or Amateur it shows a type of behavior to cheat in the first place. I don't buy Vits excuse anymore than I do Roy's. Both were grown men when these incidents occured. I'm just pointing out the rather simple logic that since he juiced to recover from injuries as an AM, then he didn't do it as a pro since he couldn't recover despite months and months of rescheduling. I think that forms a base for me to say that I don't think Vitali is juicing. A base that is just as strong if not stronger than your point that goes by the same reverse logic. Think about it. If Vitali is indeed a juicer, then why didn't he just recover from those injuries (which was shoulder, elbows and knees if I remember correctly) by using the proper set of roids? Why would he not do it if he was always a cheater? Why would he say goodbye to millions and millions of dollars if just by doing some more roids he'd be ready?

I think Jedi Vader's point is that Vitali was caught for juicing AND he has had shoulder injuries which can be synonymous with steroid use. The combination of the two is what should raise a red flag of suspicion. It's not just the shoulder injuries themselves. At least that's my take on it. I certainly don't want to put words in his mouth. He listed 3 points as reasons why Vitali is juicing. One was correct while the other two where reaches.

Because Vitali is white he can't be juicing. Try to keep race out of this thread, pal. It's unnecessary.

I think Jedi Vader's point is that Vitali was caught for juicing AND he has had shoulder injuries which can be synonymous with steroid use. The combination of the two is what should raise a red flag of suspicion. It's not just the shoulder injuries themselves. At least that's my take on it. I certainly don't want to put words in his mouth. That is PRECISELY my point. The reason why you've ascertained my point is because you've read my words with no bias.

I think Jedi Vader's point is that Vitali was caught for juicing AND he has had shoulder injuries which can be synonymous with steroid use. The combination of the two is what should raise a red flag of suspicion. It's not just the shoulder injuries themselves. At least that's my take on it. I certainly don't want to put words in his mouth. Very well put. :fing02:

I think Jedi Vader's point is that Vitali was caught for juicing AND he has had shoulder injuries which can be synonymous with steroid use. The combination of the two is what should raise a red flag of suspicion. It's not just the shoulder injuries themselves. At least that's my take on it. I certainly don't want to put words in his mouth.

All I have claimed is that there's nothing that should indicate that Vitali is cheating. The situation is not comparable to Jones who was tested positive for steroids before a fight against a cabdriver. This is where we differ. I think its the exact same thing. Doesn't matter pro or Amateur it shows a type of behavior to cheat in the first place. I don't buy Vits excuse anymore than I do Roy's. Both were grown men when these incidents occured.

Precisely my point. You couldn't answer on topic after I'd spelt it out to you. Feel free to get the last word in. You lost the argument and that's all you can do to salvage pride. :lol1::lol1: So you still say it's not possible to get a shoulderinjury without juicing? :rofl:

Because Vitali is white he can't be juicing. I disagree with this. We have our differences but Bat isn't like that.

Yet you've spent time on a good number of posts trying to prove Vits never juiced as a pro but admit the possibility of it. You say others have an agenda yet claim Vits is clean yet Jones and Hopkins.... "They are probably both juicing and has likely been doing it for the better part of their careers." Oh the irony and double standards!! :pat: Tell me old friend, why is it both Jopnes and Hopkins have probably been juicing the better part of their careers and not Vittles? All I have claimed is that there's nothing that should indicate that Vitali is cheating. The situation is not comparable to Jones who was tested positive for steroids before a fight against a cabdriver.

Yet you've spent time on a good number of posts trying to prove Vits never juiced as a pro but admit the possibility of it. You say others have an agenda yet claim Vits is clean yet Jones and Hopkins.... "They are probably both juicing and has likely been doing it for the better part of their careers." Oh the irony and double standards!! :pat: Tell me old friend, why is it both Jopnes and Hopkins have probably been juicing the better part of their careers and not Vittles? Because Vitali is white he can't be juicing.

:lol1::lol1: Good thing that you quit. No use to keep on digging when standing in a hole. Precisely my point. You couldn't answer on topic after I'd spelt it out to you. Feel free to get the last word in. You lost the argument and that's all you can do to salvage pride. :lol1::lol1:

The swipe at you is in comedy. I hope you understand. I still consider you an e-friend. I was simply trying to get my point across to a very thick poster. :kiss: Fair enough, as was my retort back. We all try and make our points and have our own opinions and ideas about things. We can get snippy, but I seldom hod a disagreement against anyone.

And that tells you just that. I didn't vote BTW. I find the options rather tendentious. Yet you've spent time on a good number of posts trying to prove Vits never juiced as a pro but admit the possibility of it. You say others have an agenda yet claim Vits is clean yet Jones and Hopkins.... "They are probably both juicing and has likely been doing it for the better part of their careers." Oh the irony and double standards!! :pat: Tell me old friend, why is it both Jopnes and Hopkins have probably been juicing the better part of their careers and not Vittles?

Let me spell it out for you, son. Klit has been busted for taking steroids. Ward & Liston have never failed a test for steroids. Klit has since had shoulder injuries which are synonymous with steroid abuse. Ward & Liston haven't taken drugs so it's safe to assume that they have genuine shoulder injuries. That is the last time I'll converse with you on the matter. You have clearly lost the debate but running on pure bigotry. :bottle::bottle: :lol1::lol1: Good thing that you quit. No use to keep on digging when standing in a hole.

Bat, Bat, Bat, Im surprised at you. NEVER go full Klitard!! :twak: :lol1::lol1::lol1:

Bat, Bat, Bat, Im surprised at you. NEVER go full Klitard!! :twak: The swipe at you is in comedy. I hope you understand. I still consider you an e-friend. I was simply trying to get my point across to a very thick poster. :kiss: