Why Pirog isn't fighting in the US revealed

I ran into these interesting series of posts from Gabriel Montoya, journalist from maxboxing.com with good inside info, in another forum. Pretty much explains everything. It wouldn't matter if Sergio wanted to fight Pirog. I'm not sure how long I have been saying or can continue explaining it: HBO HAS ZERO INTEREST IN PIROG. I've seen the emails for Buddha's sake. Ahhh. I never spend time asking fighters "Will you fight this guy or that guy." Unless it's Floyd, most fighters have zero control over who they fight so it's a wasted question IMO. Given the right money, I'd say 99% of fighters will fight anyone anytime. I think DiBella has been very clear on why they won't fight Pirog and it's a double standard. On one hand, DiBella wants JCC,jr because its a big fight. He ignores how they stole the belt or uses that as a reason they should fight. On the other hand, they won't fight Pirog because the WBO took their belt which has zero to do with Pirog other than he won the belt fair and square. The way I see it, Martinez will fight anyone. His promoter can only get him so many people. Pirog represents risk but the same reward as Barker. The fact remains that they have done nothing with the Jacobs win. No US fights. Just one fight since that win. What has Pirog done to set himself up as a viable risk to take? Nothing at all. Or how about just promote the guy at all in the US? Or anywhere? Dd you see that Russian feed he was on last fight? t was like they were in a HS gym. I doubt Pirog goes ESPN. I think what he has done is all he will do. The problem, IMO, is that he has two promoters, German Titov overseas and Artie Pellulo in the US. Neither seem to see eye to eye. Dmitry makes over a million to fight in Russia. Here, Artie offers him for much less just to get a shot on HBO. But they are not buying it. Yes. Barker is a tune-up. Why would you fight Pirog for the same money? Especially since HBO is not interested. And yes, timing wise, Sergio would know that HBO was not interested in Pirog because at that press conference after the fight, Kery Davis said as much. Quotes come from this thread. Mantoya posts as "ender" EDIt: Here's Mantoya confirming that HBO would not air the proposed Martinez vs Pirog fight from Russia for those Pirog fanboys calling Dibella a liar. The amount and terms aren't so much that it is worth it at all. HBO would not be televising it. Russian TV would. I've been asked not to disclose the terms of the deal but if it was worth it, I'd be saying to do it. It really isn't. "Career high payday" yes. That much more than he makes now? No. This is even weirder because somehow Al Haymon is involved. There's more to it then ducking him. I blame Al Haymon and the WBO for Pirog-Martinez not happening ever. All I'll say.

Comments (20)

Why would he blame Al Haymon primarily and not list a single reason why in the whole article? He talks about everything else then just slips that in there. Not buying. It's not an article. They're just random forum posts from Montoya. And the Al Haymon quote comes from a different thread from the other quotes.

14y ago

IMDAZED

Why would he blame Al Haymon primarily and not list a single reason why in the whole article? He talks about everything else then just slips that in there. Not buying.

14y ago

HeroBando

Martinez was the full WBC Jr middleweight champ. It was upgraded some time after the Cintron fight. And Cintron was his best "win" (not officially, but recognized as the winner by most), especially again sort of in retrospect because Cintron when on to beat Angulo in his next fight (this happened before Martinez Williams I), which got Cintron rated #1 at jr middleweight. Williams vs Martinez I was a great fight and it sort of made it obvious they were two of the best fighters in the division. And Martinez going on to beat Pavlik solidified that opinion. I don't think it's that perplexing. If I remember right, PWill was ranked no2 at MW before the Sergio fight, pretty much for calling Pavlik out. I understand there was a dearth of talent at middle at the time, but getting a ranking like that usually involves beating some top 10 guys first. Same story at JMW. I mean, Margarito may have been a monster after all, but I didn't think decisioning him close gets you rated top 3 in the 2 divisions above. Ward Augustus was also a great fight, Pemberton Sheika too. You know what wasn't a great fight: Martinez Cintron, that was a dog.

14y ago

DoktorSleepless

In retrospect, yes. At the time he was a blown up interim jmw title holder with Bunema as his best win. So maybe that helped keep PWill near the top after the KO, but it's perplexing how he got there in the first place. Martinez was the full WBC Jr middleweight champ. It was upgraded some time after the Cintron fight. And Cintron was his best win (not officially, but it's a commonly recognized robbery), especially again sort of in retrospect because Cintron when on to beat Angulo in his next fight (this happened before Martinez Williams I), which got Cintron rated #1 at jr middleweight. Williams vs Martinez I was a great fight and it sort of made it obvious they were two of the best fighters in the division. And Martinez going on to beat Pavlik solidified that opinion. I don't think it's that perplexing.

14y ago

HeroBando

Williams has a win over Martinez at middleweight. That counts big time. Anyway, the WBA is finally forcing Sturm to fight Golovkin next. They could unify later if he wins. In retrospect, yes. At the time he was a blown up interim jmw title holder with Bunema as his best win. So maybe that helped keep PWill near the top after the KO, but it's perplexing how he got there in the first place.

14y ago

HeroBando

Nah, I am saying that if he believes in himself, and is willing to take a couple risks and fight on HBO for less than a million dollars he could potentially line himself up for much bigger paydays. If he came to the US and beat up both Chavez and Martinez (for instance) he could probably then negotiate a fight in Russia which HBO would be willing to televise and he could get both the Russian money, and the HBO money. He could have his cake and eat it too as they say. Making a million bucks is great, but they guy fights once or twice a year, so a million bucks is not only what he makes for 1 fight, but also for a calendar year. If he could get himself into a position where he can make 2-3 million that would be 3 years worth of the income that he is earning now. Should he take a risk and lose he can probably still go back to Russia and command large purses. So why not? Because he can't get a fight on HBO or SHO, not for the lack of trying! They both just rejected a really solid fight in Pirog Geale. As for the fairytale above, come on, you're veteran poster, how is Pirog getting Chavez in the ring? Sergio said he's not interested at this point. I maintain his best chance is Lara (who is getting some tv dates, so why no offer for Pirog?) and Quillin, who'll be ready for a title shot soon and doesn't have many other options.

14y ago

DoktorSleepless

You know, I was gonna ask for a link for PWs ranking post KO, but I think you're right. And that's crazy considering PWill never beat a top 20 ranked MW. Williams has a win over Martinez at middleweight. That counts big time. Anyway, the WBA is finally forcing Sturm to fight Golovkin next. They could unify later if he wins.

14y ago

Hitman932

Well according to the best available info, he's making $1mil twice per year. He's not seeing that anywhere else, HBO or wherever. I'm not 100% buying the figure, but lets say he's making even $200k. You think he'd me smart to beat up on bigger bums on FNF for 1/10 of that? Nah, I am saying that if he believes in himself, and is willing to take a couple risks and fight on HBO for less than a million dollars he could potentially line himself up for much bigger paydays. If he came to the US and beat up both Chavez and Martinez (for instance) he could probably then negotiate a fight in Russia which HBO would be willing to televise and he could get both the Russian money, and the HBO money. He could have his cake and eat it too as they say. Making a million bucks is great, but they guy fights once or twice a year, so a million bucks is not only what he makes for 1 fight, but also for a calendar year. If he could get himself into a position where he can make 2-3 million that would be 3 years worth of the income that he is earning now. Should he take a risk and lose he can probably still go back to Russia and command large purses. So why not?

14y ago

William_Blake

Yeah, we've known that HBO is basically punishing him for knocking Jacobs out. And the big names he wants to fight, the money just isn't worth it for either side from what I've seen. Exactly what I was thinking- and Al Hayman's finger prints are in there- you better believe there is a little retribution going on for knocking out Jacobs.

14y ago

HeroBando

The management of Pirog (and many other fighters) is so nearsighted that it boggles my mind. As an example I started a job working in sales a couple years ago for a large company and was making a salary plus commission of about 50k. After a couple years doing consumer sales I realized the big money was in health care and other large enterprise accounts so I went after a 6 month rotation job that focused on outbounding and long term relationship sales. The 6 month job I received the same salary I had before but no longer earned a commission. I basically went from making 50k to 32k because I knew it would be better for me long term. During the 6 months I was making less money I was able to network and line up an opportunity to interview for a job handling major health care accounts. The experience I gained in that 6 month rotation role was a huge positive for me when I sat down for the interview. I ended up getting the job I wanted within 2.5 years, a process that usually takes 4 or 5 years and it was all because I was willing to bite the bullet and takes less money knowing that it would help me get to where I really wanted to be sooner. For 6 months I lost out on about $8000 worth of commissions. Now I make over $75k and don't work half as hard as I did before. Dmitri Pirog should consider that when he feels like he is content with beating up Russian bums for good, but not great, money. Well according to the best available info, he's making $1mil twice per year. He's not seeing that anywhere else, HBO or wherever. I'm not 100% buying the figure, but lets say he's making even $200k. You think he'd me smart to beat up on bigger bums on FNF for 1/10 of that?

14y ago

HeroBando

Lara vs Williams was officially a 155 catchweight middleweight fight where Williams came in as a full fledged middleweight weighing 170 pounds on fight night. Ring Magazine rated Williams top 3 in the middleweight division at the time. Even your hero Golovkin said "I consider Paul Williams to be the best middleweight" just less than a year before he fought Lara. That's nothing to you? Meanwhile beating freaken Daniel Jacobs makes you the best middleweight in the world? GTFO You know, I was gonna ask for a link for PWs ranking post KO, but I think you're right. And that's crazy considering PWill never beat a top 20 ranked MW. The only thing Martinez had accomplished in the middleweight division before taking the middleweight crown from Pavlik was "losing" to Williams as well. Why can't Lara do the same? I don't get why this can't be made. Offer a 50/50 split in Russia. Well it's not clear team GG is interested, we're getting conflicting signals. Here's what they said 3 weeks ago, almost identical to Pirog's response: http://www.boxingscene.com/team-golovkin-pirog-fight-make-sense-now--47067

14y ago

Hitman932

14y ago

DoktorSleepless

who have done nothing in the division Lara vs Williams was officially a 155 catchweight middleweight fight where Williams came in as a full fledged middleweight weighing 170 pounds on fight night. Ring Magazine rated Williams top 3 in the middleweight division at the time. Even your hero Golovkin said "I consider Paul Williams to be the best middleweight" less than one year before Williams fought Lara. That's nothing to you? Meanwhile beating freaken Daniel Jacobs makes you the most dangerous middleweight in the world? GTFO The only thing Martinez had accomplished in the middleweight division before taking the middleweight crown from Pavlik was losing to Williams as well. Why can't Lara do the same if he wants to? Pirog could also fight Golovkin (who IS in his weight class) instead of ducking him. I don't get why this can't be made. Offer a 50/50 split in Russia.

14y ago

ShoulderRoll

You seem to be overlooking one large fact though, Lara isn't even in his division. Being a Martinez fan i can understand that you love seeing MW Title holders defend against men from smaller weighclasses who have done nothing in the division but the rest of us have more common sense. But Lara would get him on American TV. Which he absolutely needs if he ever hopes to make himself an attractive opponent for Sergio. Pirog could also fight Golovkin (who IS in his weight class) instead of ducking him.

14y ago

HeroBando

I vaguely remember Dibella mentioning it was government money, and we all know how wasteful government is sometimes. Although, I couldn't tell if it was just a guess from Dibella or if he knew for sure. (can't remember the source. I'm looking for it. ) Gabriel Montoya is a pretty knowledgeable insider so I doubt he was mistaken. He has had like 3-4 long exposes on Pirog based on direct info from Pirog's camp on maxboxing.com so his info is probably solid. Jacobs is recovering from cancer. He just had a tumor removed from is spine and is currently limping. Jacobs says he still wants to return, but my guess is he's done. Fair enough, I wish some of the East Euro insider posters would clarify. If he's really making $1mil per mandatory, then let him stay there, but he should be able to get better opposition. It's kind of a Sturm situation, but kinda not, since Sturm has not attempted to unify, has rebuffed other beltholders (Abraham, Pirog, Sergio,?) and regularly needs friendly judging against b grade comp. Lets see what Pirog does with this optional defense.

14y ago

Ray

The problem with people like Pirog is the fact that they can make more money fighting stiffs in there home country especially when they have a belt, Now I don't know why HBO would not be interested in him apart from not paying him what he earns in Russia, but I don't blame him for not taking less to fight in America, The only people who thought Martinez was ducking him were the ones threaten by Martinez calling out their favourite fighters, so they try to divert the attention.

14y ago

DoktorSleepless

I mean, I've streamed some of these fights, and it sure seems like they are losing lots of money if they are paying him $1mil. I vaguely remember Dibella mentioning it was government money, and we all know how wasteful government is sometimes. Although, I couldn't tell if it was just a guess from Dibella or if he knew for sure. (can't remember the source. I'm looking for it. ) Gabriel Montoya is a pretty knowledgeable insider so I doubt he was mistaken. He has had like 3-4 long articles on Pirog based on direct info from Pirog's camp on maxboxing.com so his info is probably solid. If Jacobs comes back strong, I definitely wouldn't favor PWill over him. Jacobs is recovering from cancer. He just had a tumor removed from is spine and is currently limping. Jacobs says he still wants to return, but my guess is he's done.

14y ago

Mikhnienko

If Lara vs Hearns is able to get a premium cable date, Lara vs Pirog can too. Even being the b side on Showtime or HBO is a great start. A guy like Pirog should not put all his eggs in one baskets on headlining. Pirog headlining is very unlikely unless he's able to get Chavez Jr or Martinez, especially now that the Geale fight isn't happening for whatever reason. Lara got a lucky break landing the Williams fight after not looking so hot against Molina. I could also understand Pirog not wanting to fight Lara and taking a pay cut in Russia, but the option is still there and Lara is willing. I don't really have that big of a problem with Pirog in that respect. The reason I mention it is because I do have a problem with some of his delusional fans who think Martinez is ducking Pirog, but don't apply the same standard on the somewhat similar Pirog and Lara situation. I didn't get that impression at all. He didn't even mention money. Lara has been having trouble finding an opponent and capitalized in the Pirog drama that was going on. Lara has also been calling out Sergio Martinez and that belt from Pirog would help him a lot to get the fight. You seem to be overlooking one large fact though, Lara isn't even in his division. Being a Martinez fan i can understand that you love seeing MW Title holders defend against men from smaller weighclasses who have done nothing in the division but the rest of us have more common sense.

14y ago

HeroBando

The 1 million per fight quote came from August, a few months before the 3 million offer for Martinez. I don't think it was a mixup. If Pirog is able to find some sponsors to offer Martinez 3 million, I don't think the 1 million per fight is that far fetched now. Chances are it's a recent thing for Pirog since winning the WBO belt. The contracted weight was 155. That makes it an official middleweight fight even if both fighters came in under 155. Lara is going to fight at middleweight again against Hearns (157 catchweight) because he can't get anyone to fight him at 154. And yes, I still take Paul Williams over Daniel Jacobs any day of the week. I don't think he's shot. He just doesn't do well against slick southpaws. And Daniel Jacobs had a close fight with Ishe Smith and he isn't exactly great either. Lara is small, but Golovkin apparently also walks around at 160 and is still considered a top middleweight. Thanks for the corrections. Either way I'll wait for a second source before accepting 1mil. So lets say Sergio went to Russia for 3mil, how much you think is Pirog getting, 3mil? 25% sounds about right, and that would have to be a big boost over his routine earnings given the event, I mean, I've streamed some of these fights, and it sure seems like they are losing lots of money if they are paying him $1mil. I agree on Jacobs, wasn't that impressed (though he has some tools), but Lara has looked lazy, and didn't impress against Brewer either. If Jacobs comes back strong, I definitely wouldn't favor PWill over him. Jacobs is the better boxer, faster, and packs more of a punch. Other than Sergio, PWill has never fought a legit MW, is wide open, it was only assumed his chin would be able to take it.

14y ago

DoktorSleepless

That is, provided we can take Montoya at face value. I was surprised big time that he'd be making $1mil per fight, I also thought it was more like $200k. I wouldn't be surprised if Gabe was careless, and quoted some figures for the Martinez fight in Russia, which apparently has money behind it, so that Pirog would be taking 25% of the pot. I'd be shocked he makes $1m on routine defenses. The 1 million per fight quote came from August, a few months before the 3 million offer for Martinez. I don't think it was a mixup. If Pirog is able to find some sponsors to offer Martinez 3 million, I don't think the 1 million per fight is that far fetched now. Chances are it's a recent thing for Pirog since winning the WBO belt. Lara never fought PWill at MW. You'd favor that version of PWill over that Jacobs at MW? The contracted weight was 155. That makes it an official middleweight fight even if both fighters came in under 155, not to mention Paul Williams was considered a top 5 middleweight by the ring ratings at the time. Lara is going to fight at middleweight again against Hearns (157 catchweight) because he can't get anyone to fight him at 154. And yes, I still take Paul Williams over Daniel Jacobs any day of the week. I don't think he's shot. He just doesn't do well against slick southpaws. And Daniel Jacobs had a close fight with Ishe Smith and he isn't exactly great either. Lara is small, but Golovkin apparently also walks around at 160 and is still considered a top middleweight.

14y ago