Chavez Sr. was nothing but a brawler with no defense or boxing skills...

Chavez' defense declined markedly with his move to Junior Welterweight.

Chavez had a subtle defence and threw excellent combinations up and down while cutting the ring off..... Thats skill. Just because a guy dont dance around the ring in reverse and use a flashy defence like the shoulder roll then it dosnt mean he is a no skill having punchbag

One thing that I hate about Hagler is that he was not adept at cutting the ring off. Didn't look that way in the Hearns fight. And a lot of others.

Rube I watched Hagler plenty and he would box more against guys that werent as good as him and he knew it but the fight with SRL is a good look at what he would do against elite comp. It was brawler type sh*t and he was good at it. I said very clearly that he did have a good jab but also late in fights he always went to what was natural and that is brawling and ring cutting. You're describing the first half of his fights and Im describing the second half of his fights. Dont understand your disgust. He didnt have to take punches in quite a few fights because he could box. One thing that I hate about Hagler is that he was not adept at cutting the ring off.

Laporte had a much better chin than Chavez and also should have won that fight btw. which one of you do I Red K if you annoy the **** outta me?

The defensive skills that Chavez had are exactly the tools that many Mexican fighters who idolized him and mimicked his style have neglected. Many fighters can mold their style and attitude after Chavez and be come forward fighters and ignore Sr's defensive skills, but how many have really done that and made it all the way to the elite level? Not that many, and I'm sure Margarito will come to mind. However, the only one who I think had truly employed a Chavez type style offensively AND defensively has been Castillo. It's extremely hard to make it to the top level of boxing just being a come forward brawler - most of the HOF "brawlers" people have mentioned had subtle things they did to preserve themselves during the course of a fight. Them having incredible chins as well makes up for whatever other deficiencies they may have had. Still, even with an iron chin nobody is just gonna walk thru punches at the top level and still have the longevity of a 100 bouts and not end up being badly hurt, KOed numerous times, or suffering injuries like a Margarito-type brawler.

EVERY FIGHTER HAS DEFENSIVE SKILLS. IT'S ALL A MATTER ON WHETHER THEY WANT TO USE THAT SKILL OR NOT. You guys saying he doesn't have skill is just ridiculous.

All we have to do is look at his most famous fight with SRL. Im not saying his defense was terrible. He did have a good jab but he was better at cutting the ring to get inside to work his body attack. He had a hard head and didnt mind taking one off the noggin to land a harder one to the body. What classification of boxer would you say he falls under? That is absolutely retarded, anyone who has seen a lot of Hagler knows that his 2 most famous fights (Leonard and Hearns) were out of character for him, not to mention he was past prime in that fight. Most of the time he would methodically break down opponents behind his excellent jab and counter without taking much damage. He didn't really have one classification because he was so versatile but you could call him a counter-puncher.

Hagler's was one of my favs but I would have to lean towards brawler moreso than Chavez. He is definitely a guy who was willing to take one or two to mount his offense. Thats just my definition of a brawler type. Its not a knock but defense and Marvin Hagler rarely come in the same sentence. This is just wrong, Hagler had a very good defense and worked well behind one of the finest right jabs of all time (probably only second to Whitaker).

Is this your weak attempt of "trying" to get back from me owning you twice the other day because you didn't know what you were talking about? Well, I can tell you, if you didn't know what you were talking about then, you sure as hell don't know now LMAO After reading your posts the last few weeks though, I'm convinced that you really don't know any better. My guess is you've probably been in a few too many street fights and suffer from brain damage. I'll just let this one marinate for now. Go ahead and get all your editing in that you need. I'll just jump in and say IMO Winky is not an offensive minded fighter. There is a reason why he fights in that high guard. Very well noted in defense, not that impressive in offence except for a very good jab.

LMAO First it was Anthony Dirrel and now this... We'll talk about this tomorrow my friend. YOU REALLY DONT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE DO YOU! An offensive fighter relies MAINLY on punches, they USUALLY get hit alot because thier #1 objective is to punish you by hiting you. They usually throw punches in bunches, you know combos. EXAMPLE: Pacquiao,James kirkland,Paul Williams,Arturo Gotti, A defensive fighter relies on there blocking,slipping,catching,sliding,footwoot work,head movement first. They rarely get hit, because their usually behind thier guard avoiding punches. EXAMPLE: Mayweather,winky wright,James Toney,Roy Jones,Pernel W.,Klitscho Bros,Andre Ward,B-HOP

Is this your weak attempt of "trying" to get back from me owning you twice the other day because you didn't know what you were talking about? Well, I can tell you, if you didn't know what you were talking about then, you sure as hell don't know now LMAO After reading your posts the last few weeks though, I'm convinced that you really don't know any better. My guess is you've probably been in a few too many street fights and suffer from brain damage. I'll just let this one marinate for now. Go ahead and get all your editing in that you need. Dude who do you think your fooling? Everybody who reads on BS knows that you dont know sh!t about boxing! You never owned anybody, your logic is stupid and ignorant. You say bull**** pretending to understand my sport but you sound like a fool! Anybody who knows and understands boxing will side with me on most topics, surley they would side with me on the difference between a defensive and offensive fighter! You my friend are an ignorant fool in the sweet sport of boxing! Now go away or watch MMA/UFC. Over there you could pretend your way around boxing , but over here on BS you are dealing with professional die hard fans. You'll never get away with the dumb sh!t you say!

his defense was very good but it wasn't amazing to me...maybe we have a different definition of that word. Duran's defense was pretty amazing. No one made a prime Ray Leonard miss so much.

Too bad thats how most people view him, as a brawler Same with Hagler

Roberto Duran springs to mind. his defense was very good but it wasn't amazing to me...maybe we have a different definition of that word.

Winky was an offensive minded fighter, who came forward, with great defense. What are you talking about? ACCORDING TO YOUR LOGIC MAYWEATHER IS AN OFFENSIVE FIGHTER,BECAUSE Mayweather comes forward with great defense! Heres your boy Winky, I dont know what the hell your talking about an offensive fighter,LOL You need to change your name Genius! LOL

Winky was an offensive minded fighter, who came forward, with great defense. What are you talking about? YOU REALLY DONT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE DO YOU! An offensive fighter relies MAINLY on punches, they USUALLY get hit alot because thier #1 objective is to punish you by hiting you. They usually throw punches in bunches, you know combos. EXAMPLE: Pacquiao,James kirkland,Paul Williams,Arturo Gotti, A defensive fighter relies on there blocking,slipping,catching,sliding,footwoot work,head movement first. They rarely get hit, because their usually behind thier guard avoiding punches. EXAMPLE: Mayweather,winky wright,James Toney,Roy Jones,Pernel W.,Klitscho Bros,Andre Ward,B-HOP

ummm, ever heard of winky wright? winky was a defensive fighter! Omg man!

I was gonna mention Toney :fing02: Leonard as well. Myung Woo Yuh, too.

chavez was one of the best at cutting off the ring and infighting but his defense is underrated.