I think you guys need to realize something about trainers

people hate on Roach because he is associated with Manny.. I'd like someone to name me a better trainer out there right now. the only one I would say comes close in Nacho Bernstein.

I doubt there is anyone more prepared all around in terms of conditioning and boxing knowledge than "The Doc", "Mr. Sports Science"....Pedro Diaz. If I were a boxer and he'd be willing to relocate out of Canada I'd give him a call.

Khan fought Fagan after he fought Prescott. Fagan was his first fight under Roach, IIRC. Or am I misapprehending you? Fighters Khan was considered to have struggled with pre-Roach = Willie Limond and Michael Gomez. yup, sorry, I was talking about Michael Gomez. thats what happens when you go by memory.

so a trainer isnt there to give advice?? its only one job out of many. Angelo Dundee wasnt that great a trainer, in fact for George Foreman he only gave him a general outline of what he should do and let assistant trainers and Foreman himself do most the job. Basically all he actively did for Foreman was talk to him in the corner, George said that himself.

so a trainer isnt there to give advice??

i agree. with that said, i never thought roach was a good trainer for a guy like khan. hes wasting a good portion of his talent and hes pretty one dimensional. u figure out how to get past his speed and make him backpedal, and hes in the deep end. I think Roach is, or at least was, a good fit for Khan. Khan had bad defensive liabilities, and Roach gave him a generic guard and Khan's durability increased a lot(Ariza also might have helped a lot here, and heres part of Roach's camp). Khan is naturally very fast, and having an offensive based trainer like Roach fit well with him. I dont necessarily think that Khan should stay with him at this point, but Khan became much better after joining Roach's camp. People forget that it was jsut Prescott that KTFO of him, he struggled against Oisin Fagan too right before. who else would be a better fit for Khan?

i agree. with that said, i never thought roach was a good trainer for a guy like khan. hes wasting a good portion of his talent and hes pretty one dimensional. u figure out how to get past his speed and make him backpedal, and hes in the deep end.

Well it was Hatton who hired Sr to try and up his defensive game. Senior was just doing his job, Hatton failed to use one ounce of defense in the Pacquiao fight. I didn't see Hatton use anything Sr tought him in 24/7. Dawson and Guzman both did pretty good with their short time with Sr. That';s also because the Mayweather style is 100000 PCT wrong for Hatton...defensive skills can be taught but to pattern one fighter after another isnt usually the right approach...there's a very good rreason why every fighter in the world doesnt just fight like Mayweather and win all their fights

Well it was Hatton who hired Sr to try and up his defensive game. Senior was just doing his job, Hatton failed to use one ounce of defense in the Pacquiao fight. I didn't see Hatton use anything Sr tought him in 24/7. Dawson and Guzman both did pretty good with their short time with Sr. Well thats the point, wasnt it? Hatton went to Sr because he thought he was the better trainer, but it just wasnt a good fit. And using defense was never Hatton's style, he just needed to bull into people and maul them. He spent way too much of his short alive time looking at Pacquiao tentatively instead of just bulling into him from the start. Hatton never had a chance in the first place since he sucks vs southpaws, but he could have at least made it more competitive with a more appopriate strategy. Heres another example. DLH paired with Sr, and yet struggled against Vargas in a fight he probably should have won much easier. That defensive style just did not fit DLH at all, it wasnt a good fit. I'd prefer advice from Roach in the corner than Steward. "Let your hands go" and nothing else doesn't do it for me. It was just an example and people know Steward, I wasnt really being literal.

Choosing a trainer isnt just about what advice they give in the corner. Its about their entire camp. While you would prefer the advice of someone like Manny Steward in the corner, as a fighter you might want to pick someone like Roach instead, simply because by choosing them as a trainer you have access to very high level sparring, a top of the line conditioning coach in Ariza, and lots of good quality training equipment. and just because a trainer has good 'ideas', doesnt mean theyre necessarily a good fit for every fighter. ie Mayweather Sr trying to make Hatton into something hes not, and he simply got one sidedly ktfo when he had the ability to make the fight at least semi competitive with his more natural mauling style. Boxing isnt as simple as 'oh, this trainer is da best, and these guys suck'. I agree, Steak!! I always say, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE BEST TRAINER IN THE WORLD...the best trainer/cpoach for one guy may be the worst for another...so many things come into play...

Actually I agree, which makes me wonder a lot about fighters themselves who change trainers like gym socks and then BLAME these very trainers when the end-result is a loss (i.e. DLH)...

Choosing a trainer isnt just about what advice they give in the corner. Its about their entire camp. While you would prefer the advice of someone like Manny Steward in the corner, as a fighter you might want to pick someone like Roach instead, simply because by choosing them as a trainer you have access to very high level sparring, a top of the line conditioning coach in Ariza, and lots of good quality training equipment. and just because a trainer has good 'ideas', doesnt mean theyre necessarily a good fit for every fighter. ie Mayweather Sr trying to make Hatton into something hes not, and he simply got one sidedly ktfo when he had the ability to make the fight at least semi competitive with his more natural mauling style. Boxing isnt as simple as 'oh, this trainer is da best, and these guys suck'. Well it was Hatton who hired Sr to try and up his defensive game. Senior was just doing his job, Hatton failed to use one ounce of defense in the Pacquiao fight. I didn't see Hatton use anything Sr tought him in 24/7. Dawson and Guzman both did pretty good with their short time with Sr.

Choosing a trainer isnt just about what advice they give in the corner. Its about their entire camp. While you would prefer the advice of someone like Manny Steward in the corner, as a fighter you might want to pick someone like Roach instead, simply because by choosing them as a trainer you have access to very high level sparring, a top of the line conditioning coach in Ariza, and lots of good quality training equipment. and just because a trainer has good 'ideas', doesnt mean theyre necessarily a good fit for every fighter. ie Mayweather Sr trying to make Hatton into something hes not, and he simply got one sidedly ktfo when he had the ability to make the fight at least semi competitive with his more natural mauling style. Boxing isnt as simple as 'oh, this trainer is da best, and these guys suck'. I'd prefer advice from Roach in the corner than Steward. "Let your hands go" and nothing else doesn't do it for me.

mayweather sr. would definitely make khan what he is.