Why Floyd is a better counter puncher than Marquez

Floyd's height, reach and huge speed (not to mention talent) advantages negate any strength adv the rather feather fisted Baldomir had on him. Oscar was a very good win, but he wasn't exactly prime or active at the time (a year since his last fight and over a year and a half without one before that.) And Floyd struggled with him before DLH quit throwing the jab. Yes but he was responding to a post that stated Floyd had never fought anyone that was outright bigger than him. Which is false, going as far back as the Corrales bout.

Countering is all floyd does so youd expect him to be ok at it with no offense to have to think off. JMM has done it against better opponents though. Until Floyd fights Pac, his so called countering ability counts for nothing.

not only is Marquez the better counter-puncher but hes the better boxer ATG wise and a better human being.

Floyd's height, reach and huge speed (not to mention talent) advantages negate any strength adv the rather feather fisted Baldomir had on him. Oscar was a very good win, but he wasn't exactly prime or active at the time (a year since his last fight and over a year and a half without one before that.) And Floyd struggled with him before DLH quit throwing the jab. You're nitpicking, and baldomir walked around at 180+.... what about Mosley? Mayweather was scared to face a true welterweight that had speed and power. How about Ortiz, he was almost three full weight classes bigger than Mayweather....?

Floyd's Timing/IQ > His Speed. http://i53.tinypic.com/2qj9jpe.gif http://i52.tinypic.com/2qvcvg6.gif http://i51.tinypic.com/2ugz0g3.gif http://i54.tinypic.com/2cf5ab7.gif It's that simple.

Carlos Baldomir wasn't outright larger than him? Floyd's height, reach and huge speed (not to mention talent) advantages negate any strength adv the rather feather fisted Baldomir had on him. Or how about when he went to JMW and fought Oscar? Oscar was a very good win, but he wasn't exactly prime or active at the time (a year since his last fight and over a year and a half without one before that.) And Floyd struggled with him before DLH quit throwing the jab.

LMFAO, mayweather is like Arron Rodgers he has a brilliant mind and body. Floyd out thought marquez, he didn't muscle him against the ropes. he picked him apart in the center of the ring. if marquez was smarter he would have landed more punches. Being bigger doesn't stop your opponent from landing clean shots. hell it should have helped marquez because he had more to hit. Floyd timing is way better than marquez. he catches guys early enough to get out the way of counter attacks. Marquez sometimes counters late and gets caught slightly. Floyd has the athleticism but he doesn't rely on it like the pacquiaos of the world. he fought and beat guys faster and stronger than him.

Pull counter is a counter dufus. Lead left hook is not. And it doesn't discredit JMMs counter punching any more than any punch that JMM landed on Floyd without an immediate counter. The pull counter is designed to counter duck underneath the opponents counter as seen against JMM, Mosley, Castilo, and others.... dufus. Are you blind? And when did it become popular to counter a punch after getting hit yourself? "any punch that JMM landed on Floyd without an immediate counter." You're seeing a particular type of boxing all to yourself.

Adding the leaping hook was not a credit to Floyd as a counter puncher dufus.... it was a discredit to JMM as an example of what nullifies his counter abilities... same as the pull counter. You can bring these tools into the ring against JMM and his countering prowess is blunted. ANd if he could add a pull counter into his game he would not get countered as often. Pull counter is a counter dufus. Lead left hook is not. And it doesn't discredit JMMs counter punching any more than any punch that JMM landed on Floyd without an immediate counter.

They're both pretty good at it. I like them both as fighters. They bring their own unique style to the same art of fighting. JMM just can't resist the urge to go blow for blow at times. damn he's good

floyd has been a WW for a long time and has never fought an outright larger opponent if floyd fought larger guys you'd see his style change. he'd have to start coming forward//closing distance or run the risk of being out of range and outworked. LOL were you living in a cave when Floyd fought Oscar?

There's no argument here may>JMM

aside from the speed and reflexes and skills and all of that, which are a part of another argument dude size think about it how can you throw a hook going backwards when you have to come forward to get to your opponent? marquez is a FW come LW fighting lw's and now some ww's floyd has been a WW for a long time and has never fought an outright larger opponent if floyd fought larger guys you'd see his style change. he'd have to start coming forward//closing distance or run the risk of being out of range and outworked. Carlos Baldomir wasn't outright larger than him? Or how about when he went to JMW and fought Oscar?

The problem I had with your original post is the fact that you claimed that you're not as impressed with Floyd Jr becasue he has extreme physical gifts......but then went on to say that JMM is a better counterpuncherand one of the smartest boxer you have seen. Hasnt JMM intelligence helped him just as much as Floyds physical gifts....... ur sig is classic freedom owned himself

How many times has JMM thrown a counter while going backwards? I've never seen him do it. Floyd does it on a regualr with check hooks. http://i4.tagstat.com/image08/8/5f38/000m055m5YU.gif When have you seen JMM throw a lead left hook and put himself in a position to avoid counters? Floyd does it on a regular basis with his leaping left hook. He jumps in and moves off at an angle to avoid counters. http://i40.tinypic.com/a0xhsk.gif When has JMM ever done a pull counter (which involves countering and then avoiding your opponents counter)? I'll be schocked if you find ONE moment where he does it. Floyd has done it enough times that you can make highlight videos on it (as has been done). How often does JMM simply hit and avoid getting countered all in one movement? http://i5.tagstat.com/image08/8/5f38/000j055m5YU.gif All it took was upper body movement, head movement, and footwork for Floyd to avoid being countered by JMM. If you're such a great counter puncher then there is nothing that a fighter can do to avoid your counter punches. Floyd was throwing lead punches all night and avoiding JMM's counters all night. JMM was throwing lead punches and getting countered all night. Your only argument is that JMM throws more punches when he counters (which is a decision, not a skill). What good are those counters if you're not landing against certain styles? There is no type of style that Floyd can't counter. There IS certain styles that JMM can't counter as he himself said in the post fight interview that he had a hard time connecting on Floyd. JMM also gets hit while he's trying to counter. Your counterpunching greatness is deminished in my book if your counter punching is getting countered, and if you're missing those counters altogether. Floyd on the other hand, avoids being countered after he counters and does not face a style that he can't counter. You can find countering skills that Floyd has that JMM does not have, but you can't find any that JMM has that Floyd doesn't have. Yet he's a better counter puncher? :rofl: I'm not a JMM hater... I love watching him fight.... but I know better than to call him a superior counter puncher to Floyd. aside from the speed and reflexes and skills and all of that, which are a part of another argument dude size think about it how can you throw a hook going backwards when you have to come forward to get to your opponent? marquez is a FW come LW fighting lw's and now some ww's floyd has been a WW for a long time and has never fought an outright larger opponent if floyd fought larger guys you'd see his style change. he'd have to start coming forward//closing distance or run the risk of being out of range and outworked.

He wasn't taking those risks against Pacquiao. I think he won the fight be he would have thrown more punches if he walks into the line of fire the way people imply. He only does that against brawling opponents who pressure him. Often even then it's not countering... he's leading. Yes he did take risks. Look at his face after the fight. Sure he fought a much smarter fight than the first 2, but when Pac would close in to attack, JMM would take his chances by trying to get off first. When Pac got in, he would try and flurry, only to have JMM get the first shot off first more times that not. Even after Pac would start throwing....JMM would stay in there and try to get his shots in. Yes JMM was walking the dog, but in order for him to get those shots, he had to stand in front of the blades.

You're an idiot, I said Floyd was the better counter puncher. However including a lead left hook in an example of him being a better counter-puncher is just plain dumb. Adding the leaping hook was not a credit to Floyd as a counter puncher dufus.... it was a discredit to JMM as an example of what nullifies his counter abilities... same as the pull counter. You can bring these tools into the ring against JMM and his countering prowess is blunted. ANd if he could add a pull counter into his game he would not get countered as often.

Its very simple....JMM takes more risk than Floyd. JMM will get hit more, but is just as good. Floyd just looks better technically because he limits his risks, and usually comes out not bruised up. Its just different styles with similar ways of creating offense. P.S. and for anyone to assume what JMM did to Pac, that Floyd makes easy work because of what Floyd did to JMM.....yes it is very possible that Floyd shuts out Pac, but, back to what i said....JMM TAKES MORE RISKS (when Pac starts swinging, so does JMM - hes NOT AFRAID TO TRADE), and has much success with Pac because his risk taking mixed with his precision. He wasn't taking those risks against Pacquiao. I think he won the fight be he would have thrown more punches if he walks into the line of fire the way people imply. He only does that against brawling opponents who pressure him. Often even then it's not countering... he's leading.

Oh no... JMM countered Floyd more often because he's the superior counter puncher.... that's how his connect ratio was in the teens while Floyd's was around 50%. You're an idiot, I said Floyd was the better counter puncher. However including a lead left hook in an example of him being a better counter-puncher is just plain dumb.

Could make GIF's of Floyd doing similar things to Zab, but just cant/dont want to (Another day). Since thats the example you used in terms of speed. After Zab did the usual and gave up. I'd prefer an example of Floyd fighting someone with a huge advantage in speed. But there aren't any.