Why didn't Pacquiao follow Roach's instructions inbetween rounds??

Freddie told Manny several times throughout the fight that he needed to move to his right, but Pac continuously kept moving to his left. He wasn't really circling, persay - it was more like he was "drifting" left then it was circling (IMO). Most of the time when Manny threw his punches he was also dipping to his left, which played into Marquez's right hand power shots. The few times when Pac actually did go to his right, and when he threw combos and dodged out to the right (which was rare), he would make JMM miss most of the time. And also, when Pac did go to his right - with the way JMM's stance is and with the feet placement between a southpaw and conventional fighter, it made it harder for JMM to move at that angle. I noticed it so early in the fight that it was frustrating the hell out of me. I can't for the life of me figure out why Manny didn't listen to Freddies advice on that. It seemed like Manny hardly used any angles against Juan at all, which is bizarre IMO. With JMM being such a supreme counter puncher, he was able to come back and catch Pac with 2 or 3 good counter punches almost every time Manny would throw anything. Do you think it could have made any significant difference in the fight if Pac would have listened to Roach's instruction regarding that? In addition: After just watching the replay of the fight on HBO tonight (Side note: they showed a few things from the 24/7 angle like they did in FMJ/Ortiz) - a few things of interest that I hadn't seen during the PPV.... After they showed the scores and announced Pac was the winner, the 24/7 camera panned to Alex Ariza - who clearly mouthed "Whew!" and made a motion of wiping sweat off of his eyebrow (and then he laughed). I thought that was kindof telling of him to do that. After they showed Pacquiao was the winner, the camera went directly to Marquez's corner and Bob Arum was in there talking to Juan. I don't think I've ever seen Bob go to Pacs opponent before going to Pac first. Odd for Bob? It looked like he was saying something serious (Probably something like "Juan, think of all the money we could make with a 4th fight.") :lol1: And perhaps the funniest thing (IMO), was when Max was interviewing an all-but(t) naked JMM in the dressing room, after the fight. Max would ask Juan a question, look down at that sombrero, and then embarassingly look away. At one time, even chuckling before asking the next question. Max looked hella uncomfortable, especially since Juan had his legs stretched out and laid back, looking like he litterally just got fukked LOL. :sombrero: Awsome post:) everything u said was true..idk what makes him circle to hes left most of time he has to learn how to take away opponents strength's away i think if he did do that and kept to hes right he would have dropped or even Possibly Ko'd JMM but idk like what i always say when u r in the ring fighting at that moment u forget about everything ..but yeah idk whether they'll have a 4th fight but i dont think so..i think JMM had enough..i mean u have to give credit for this trilogy they had cuz all the fights were and very very competitive but i say No for a 4th... but i don think JMM should fight at 140 now though..idk Whehther pAC v Jr will ever fight but i do Know Jr skill beyond JMM and can do whatever JMM can do but way better so idk styles make fights so time will tell how would win that fight but im picking Jr just cuz of that Defence,speed,Angles & counters r second to none and he has above average power too so he gona make it very very tough for pAC but still could b interesting cuz Jr cant take the same shot that pAC can take or he has never faced this much explosiveness and speed and raw power and footwork of pAC so yeah..

Pacquiao got old. Look at his best fights and how much he used to move. His feet got slower. His work rate has also been decreasing since the marg fight. And JMM? Guys 38 and faster and stronger than ever, biologically it's impossible. He never even tired. Hate to accuse someone of ped use, but come on. 38 years old?

I haven't got a chance to see the fight yet because of other commitments, but you should really start more threads Lorily. You're one of the more astute fans on this forum. :fing02: +1 Great thread Lorily. Haven't been on here for a while so i missed the message you left but this thread certianly deserved a bump. It's a shame that more serious and analytical threads like this don't occupy NSB more. I only watched the fight live, haven't re-watched it yet, so perhaps i'll comment in more detail later on but i agree with your post. Pac's lack of adjustments during the fight was infuriating me tbh and what you were saying about not stepping to his right is true. He was basically slowly following Juan around the ring the whole fight and it left me scratching my head too.

pacquiao clearly wanted the ko, definitely needs to control his urges and try to build up points if he can't land his straight left, work the body, right hook, lead counter left hand, all good, he should've kept at that instead of doing it sparingly and then fienting and trying so desperately to land the big punch

Freddie told Manny several times throughout the fight that he needed to move to his right, but Pac continuously kept moving to his left. He wasn't really circling, persay - it was more like he was "drifting" left then it was circling (IMO). Most of the time when Manny threw his punches he was also dipping to his left, which played into Marquez's right hand power shots. The few times when Pac actually did go to his right, and when he threw combos and dodged out to the right (which was rare), he would make JMM miss most of the time. And also, when Pac did go to his right - with the way JMM's stance is and with the feet placement between a southpaw and conventional fighter, it made it harder for JMM to move at that angle. I noticed it so early in the fight that it was frustrating the hell out of me. I can't for the life of me figure out why Manny didn't listen to Freddies advice on that. It seemed like Manny hardly used any angles against Juan at all, which is bizarre IMO. With JMM being such a supreme counter puncher, he was able to come back and catch Pac with 2 or 3 good counter punches almost every time Manny would throw anything. Do you think it could have made any significant difference in the fight if Pac would have listened to Roach's instruction regarding that? In addition: After just watching the replay of the fight on HBO tonight (Side note: they showed a few things from the 24/7 angle like they did in FMJ/Ortiz) - a few things of interest that I hadn't seen during the PPV.... After they showed the scores and announced Pac was the winner, the 24/7 camera panned to Alex Ariza - who clearly mouthed "Whew!" and made a motion of wiping sweat off of his eyebrow (and then he laughed). I thought that was kindof telling of him to do that. After they showed Pacquiao was the winner, the camera went directly to Marquez's corner and Bob Arum was in there talking to Juan. I don't think I've ever seen Bob go to Pacs opponent before going to Pac first. Odd for Bob? It looked like he was saying something serious (Probably something like "Juan, think of all the money we could make with a 4th fight.") :lol1: And perhaps the funniest thing (IMO), was when Max was interviewing an all-but(t) naked JMM in the dressing room, after the fight. Max would ask Juan a question, look down at that sombrero, and then embarassingly look away. At one time, even chuckling before asking the next question. Max looked hella uncomfortable, especially since Juan had his legs stretched out and laid back, looking like he litterally just got fukked LOL. :sombrero: Yes sir.........before the fight I thought it was crazy that Kellerman was telling Pac that he needed to move keep his right foot on the outside of of JMM's left foot and circle to the right. I knew HBO was really worried about how Pac was going to perform against JMM because if Pac got beat, the hype behind the Mayweather fight would take a huge hit and Pac's reputation might take one as well. In a pinch, most people will do what they feel comfortable doing instead of what they are taught or forced to do. Perhaps Pac feels that moving to the right allows him to land certain punches because JMM expects him to move to the right. Like if he moves to the left, then leans to the right, he can land the straight left but JMM is too smart for that. After a few of those, he'll catch on and start to land counter shots Dunno really but I just think that Pac has been able to do what he has wanted to do for so long and it has worked, that inside, he feels that if just goes out there and does what "feels right", he'll come away with a win. All I know is that you can tell if a boxer feels they actually deserved to win a fight based on their facial expressions and emotions shown after a fight.......JMM conveyed more of a "winning feeling" than Pac did.

great thread lorily :) i agree... pac clearly fought shook & respected jmm TOO MUCH. reminds me of how juan diaz tried to outbox jmm in the rematch instead of bringing the fight to him. trying to outbox the superior boxer is pretty idiotic... i didnt even notice roach's advice in the corner. i was paying closer attention to pac's expression. i really think after the second round, pac was like, "this dude isnt going anywhere... he is gonna make me WORK tonight".... and he fought EXTREMELY impatient and was losing his cool pretty quick (resulting in pac being more sloppy)... its like they were trying to prove to jmm that pac improved technically... pac's footwork was amazing, but his offense just wasnt as impressive as usual.

Um guys? ISn't that the purpose of counter punching?

Great post and nice analysis. IMO Manny made this fight harder than it had to be. Also, Manny showed Marquez way too much respect. I said it after the fight and I'll say it again, If Manny would have used the same effective aggression he used in the Cotto fight, there would be no controversy and he would have won decisively. I dont think it was to much respect but I agree w/ your analysis. Pac was tooo worried about being countered to go all out. He put the muzzle on himself.

Exactly! Except the supra is 800hp!

A 300hp Supra with no brakes or reverse gear. Can't drift. Sorry.

What boxer listens to his corner? Pac doesen't know how to do much. He's kinda like Kirkland. That's why he fights guys who compliment his style (and he beats them in style I might add) until they went back to JMM. They got caught up, that's all. You can't forget who you are. They did and got caught up.

Pac won 10 rounds to 2 so whats the problem.

i noticed this as well and all I can conjure up is that jmm had pac out of his element. jmm is a technician, highly skilled, much more of a chess player than pac. jmm had him thinking, and when you think you dont act and he had pac mentally focused on trying to counter punch the counter puncher.. that is not pacs game. also, jmm is an offensive powerhouse, he throws hard fast combinations and is a solid fighter all around. lets not yet say that if jmm can do this then floyd can do it better.. floyd is tremendous, but he doesnt have that offensive firepower that jmm does.. now 2 or 3 years ago floyd picks pac apart 12 rounds to none but today, floyds legs arent the same, his foot agility is not the same and he is a pot shotter all day long... pac has more advantages... however, this fight will never happen... so bring on the ghost

Marquez had the natural advantage, moving backwards to the left from a othadox stance is much easier than moving forward to the right from a southpaw stance. Pacquiao's main weapon in the previous two fights was his straight left, Pacquiao kept trying to bring this into play, but Marquez's great footwork left Pacquiao over reaching most of the time. Marquez did very well in controlling the distance Roch maybe got his tactics wrong in the first place, underestimating Marquez and predicting a early KO. Pacquiao did move to the right more as the fight went on and landed right hook. When Pacquiao upped the pace Marquez got caught more as in the previous fights.

This goes to show that Marquez did have Manny's number for all three fights. It also shows how pretty much one dimensional Clottey, Cotto, and Margo were against Manny. It's obvious Marquez trained very hard for this one. Nice work, Lorily.

Pac won 10 rounds to 2. If your very generous than 8 rounds o 4 like Lederman gave him. Pac was doing just fine, with or without roach. Wow, you should be on stage, you're a real comedian.

becasue I am a bum who can't even spell ... and when I can't think of anything intelligent to post I just revert back to what I know best,l which is being a bum .. once a bum always a bum.. that's why Fixed it for you.

Hi Lorily Freddie told Manny several times throughout the fight that he needed to move to his right, but Pac continuously kept moving to his left. He wasn't really circling, persay - it was more like he was "drifting" left then it was circling (IMO). Most of the time when Manny threw his punches he was also dipping to his left, which played into Marquez's right hand power shots. The few times when Pac actually did go to his right, and when he threw combos and dodged out to the right (which was rare), he would make JMM miss most of the time ... I can't for the life of me figure out why Manny didn't listen to Freddies advice on that. Do you think it could have made any significant difference in the fight if Pac would have listened to Roach's instruction regarding that? Absolutely and I'm as puzzled as you are about why Pac ignored Roach (and contrary to what others in the thread claim, simply changing the direction in which you circle is not that difficult and is something Pac is certainly capable of doing.) I'm equally puzzled by why Pac exclusively head-hunted throughout the fight despite Roach telling him over and over again to go to the body. And if he'd gone to the body he would certainly have done better than he did, especially as Marquez was a bit soft-looking around the waist.

Freddie told Manny several times throughout the fight that he needed to move to his right, but Pac continuously kept moving to his left. He wasn't really circling, persay - it was more like he was "drifting" left then it was circling (IMO). Most of the time when Manny threw his punches he was also dipping to his left, which played into Marquez's right hand power shots. The few times when Pac actually did go to his right, and when he threw combos and dodged out to the right (which was rare), he would make JMM miss most of the time. And also, when Pac did go to his right - with the way JMM's stance is and with the feet placement between a southpaw and conventional fighter, it made it harder for JMM to move at that angle. I noticed it so early in the fight that it was frustrating the hell out of me. I can't for the life of me figure out why Manny didn't listen to Freddies advice on that. It seemed like Manny hardly used any angles against Juan at all, which is bizarre IMO. With JMM being such a supreme counter puncher, he was able to come back and catch Pac with 2 or 3 good counter punches almost every time Manny would throw anything. Do you think it could have made any significant difference in the fight if Pac would have listened to Roach's instruction regarding that? In addition: After just watching the replay of the fight on HBO tonight (Side note: they showed a few things from the 24/7 angle like they did in FMJ/Ortiz) - a few things of interest that I hadn't seen during the PPV.... After they showed the scores and announced Pac was the winner, the 24/7 camera panned to Alex Ariza - who clearly mouthed "Whew!" and made a motion of wiping sweat off of his eyebrow (and then he laughed). I thought that was kindof telling of him to do that. After they showed Pacquiao was the winner, the camera went directly to Marquez's corner and Bob Arum was in there talking to Juan. I don't think I've ever seen Bob go to Pacs opponent before going to Pac first. Odd for Bob? It looked like he was saying something serious (Probably something like "Juan, think of all the money we could make with a 4th fight.") :lol1: And perhaps the funniest thing (IMO), was when Max was interviewing an all-but(t) naked JMM in the dressing room, after the fight. Max would ask Juan a question, look down at that sombrero, and then embarassingly look away. At one time, even chuckling before asking the next question. Max looked hella uncomfortable, especially since Juan had his legs stretched out and laid back, looking like he litterally just got fukked LOL. :sombrero: You know what, I really expected Manny to run through Marquez. Like, I expected him to be stopped within eight rounds. I was sure of it, boy was I wrong. But to answer the question, I don't know how much of a difference it would have made. I still feel that if a fighter doesn't come right at Manny, he will have some kind of trouble.

http://www.madblackcat.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/rolling-pin-large.jpg :bottle: Wazza's manhood feels threatened by a woman that knows more and can talk boxing circles around him. He has been targeting her, stalking her, trying (and failing) to discredit her. He has nothing to say, so he posts pics. Wazza, Lorily is ten times the poster you could ever hope to be, though you have your moments, you'll never be as good as she is.