The contradiction of HBO

The majority of sport wrtiter, fighters and trainers also picked Pacquiao to KO Marquez in this fight. So it wouldn't surprise me if they were all wrong. Predicting and scoring are two different things.

Yeah I think the majority of sports writers, fighters and trainers are all wrong and you're right. That sounds like the most logical theory. The majority of sport wrtiter, fighters and trainers also picked Pacquiao to KO Marquez in this fight. So it wouldn't surprise me if they were all wrong.

probabley thanks to the sixth(or 5th) pacquiao won that fight too, people really just can't score worth sht though, that's why it's 50/50 regardless, the kd made a huge difference Yeah I think the majority of sports writers, fighters and trainers are all wrong and you're right. That sounds like the most logical theory.

In that fight. the HBO crew were bad-mouthing Paul even before Lara started kicking his ass. It seemed to me like they had it planned to talk down to Williams that night. I had Lara winning and that was the biggest robbery this year, and should be at least one of top 25 worst robberies in boxing history. But the way the HBO commentators were verbally abusing Williams that night, was just not right at all. To be talking like that about a guy who's putting his life on the line and has only tried to fight the best, it's just wrong. Sure the criticism at the end was warranted...but it was just disgusting to hear these guys talk down to Williams even when the fight was still close in the 4-5th rounds, after that Lara just ran away with the fight and won pretty clearly. Lara could not miss with that left hand, got peppered with big shots all night. Show a lot of heart Williams by coming forward and throwing punches all night, never giving up but Lara was dominant and won rounds comfortably.

Sorry if it wasn't clear enough. I'm not trying to prove a point; just adding more stats as provided live to all viewers before the decision was declared. To paraphrase you... I have not made a theory on this subject. This is what I think the TS is addressing: 1. He doesn't believe Pacquiao landed more punches than reported. 2. Commentators are bias/contradictory (quantity/quality) If you notice the stats shown, there is already misinformation (unintentional or otherwise) being reported. The total number of punches is reported as 176/578 30% for Pacquiao & 138/436 32% Marquez. A few seconds afterwards they reveal the body punch stats as: 95 43 138 32% & 149 17 166 29% . Benefit of the doubt to an innocent error, but also reminding us of their validity. Which #s are to be the real/true values? it does affect peoples' perception of efficiency/effectiveness afterall. What's the value of a 3% difference in one vs 2% in another slide for the same statistic? The difference is punch zone to compubox, I believe they are two different punching authorites. Compubox is not 100% right, but I have countered the punches myself in certain rounds in this fight and in other fights and they are very accurate. The punch stats should not effect the your judging of the fight at all. It seems that the TS seems to think that HBO are bias to Pacquiao or big fighter. This is not the case, each member of the team have their own view and sometimes they disagree. Most of them like agressive fighters, so Pacquiao maybe seem more favoured by some members in HBOs team. But to think that the Williams vs Lara is equivelnt to Pacquiao vs Marquez 3 is just wrong. And the theory falls down there.

here we go with the slow mo excuse. pac landed more punches, thats true. but with that said, there were many rounds where it was clear pac was getting beat up and jmm was landing the harder blows. there were more than a few. slow mo can be very deceiving. i dunno why ppl use that in their argument. in real time u see the real effect of the punches. slow mo can be very deceiving? WTF!!! whered you get that? deceiving for PACQUIAO? dayummm... GET OUT OF HERE!

In that fight. the HBO crew were bad-mouthing Paul even before Lara started kicking his ass. It seemed to me like they had it planned to talk down to Williams that night. I had Lara winning and that was the biggest robbery this year, and should be at least one of top 25 worst robberies in boxing history. But the way the HBO commentators were verbally abusing Williams that night, was just not right at all. To be talking like that about a guy who's putting his life on the line and has only tried to fight the best, it's just wrong. Sure the criticism at the end was warranted...but it was just disgusting to hear these guys talk down to Williams even when the fight was still close in the 4-5th rounds, after that Lara just ran away with the fight and won pretty clearly.

I understand the compubox figures, but what is the point he is trying to prove? Sorry if it wasn't clear enough. I'm not trying to prove a point; just adding more stats as provided live to all viewers before the decision was declared. To paraphrase you... I have not made a theory on this subject. This is what I think the TS is addressing: 1. He doesn't believe Pacquiao landed more punches than reported. 2. Commentators are bias/contradictory (quantity/quality) If you notice the stats shown, there is already misinformation (unintentional or otherwise) being reported. The total number of punches is reported as 176/578 30% for Pacquiao & 138/436 32% Marquez. A few seconds afterwards they reveal the body punch stats as: 95 43 138 32% & 149 17 166 29% . Benefit of the doubt to an innocent error, but also reminding us of their validity. Which #s are to be the real/true values? it does affect peoples' perception of efficiency/effectiveness afterall. What's the value of a 3% difference in one vs 2% in another slide for the same statistic?

By the way, Pacquiao landed similar one-punch leads that Floyd did, THE DIFFERENCE BEING, Pacquiao isn't as good at it. In the gym, his practice, training is all about quick, blitz combinations. Whether on the mitts or on the heavy beg, he never practices throwing one, hard punch at a time. Always combinations. Therefore his lead lefts weren't as eye catching as Floyd's lead rights Vs JMM, but they still landed: REMINISCE OF THIS PUNCH: http://youtu.be/SKBgDk5wu40?t=4m48s Whenever Pac threw that straight left followed by moving to his right, it seemed to work. Since he seemed so intent on outboxing Marquez, he should have kept doing that. It literally seemed to work every time.

Still no answer? Let me help you. Williams 200 / 1047 Total and 161 / 766 Power Lara 224 / 530 Total and 178 / 363 Power Hope this helps. Pwned! supported by facts

There's no comparison between these fights in my eyes. Maybe in some people's eyes but not mine.

Did P. Williams also outland Lara like Pacquiao did JMM? Also, numbers/stats are just supportive evidence, not the end-all, be-all. All you need is empirical evidence to see the difference between those two fights. The Punisher got punished and didn't dish out anything in return, and Pacquiao did not. I have seen some replays of the crucial rounds in Slow motion, and Pacquiao landed more more punches and avoided JMM's, who by the way got cheers from the crowd, even though he missed them. Pacquiao's just weren't as eye-catching as JMM's. here we go with the slow mo excuse. pac landed more punches, thats true. but with that said, there were many rounds where it was clear pac was getting beat up and jmm was landing the harder blows. there were more than a few. slow mo can be very deceiving. i dunno why ppl use that in their argument. in real time u see the real effect of the punches.

So did Marquez in the second fight against Pacquiao. probabley thanks to the sixth(or 5th) pacquiao won that fight too, people really just can't score worth sht though, that's why it's 50/50 regardless, the kd made a huge difference

The HBO crew likes to talk about the guy who throws more punches wins a close fight. I'll use Williams-Lara as an example, who HBO crew UNANIMOUSLY agreed Lara was robbed EVEN though Williams threw way more punches and the total punches landed were close Total Punches Thrown Williams - 1047 Lara - 530 Pacqauio - 578 Marquez - 436 Williams like Pacquiao moved forward most of that fight yet in the Williams fight. HBO UNANIMOUSLY agreed the fighter in Williams-Lara who back peddled more and threw less punches outboxing the other won...yet in the Pac-JMM 3 fight they contradict their selves says the fighter who throws more punches in a close fight should win.... WTF Plus 1. :boxing:

Nope Manny would've still won the fight by MD Nope it would have been a draw. 115-113, 112-116, 114-114. With a slight edge to Marquez in the judges scores

but Pac knockdown Marquez which changes the outcome... If Pac only win that round 10-9 on all juges, Marquez will win that fight. Nope Manny would've still won the fight by MD

So did Marquez in the second fight against Pacquiao. but Pac knockdown Marquez which changes the outcome... If Pac only win that round 10-9 on all juges, Marquez will win that fight.

But you still don't agree that HBO analysts contradict themselves? Where is the contradiction?

By favoring quality over quantity in one fight and quantity over quality in another. if you talking about Pac vs Marquez 2 and 3: Pac vs Marquez 2: there was a knockdown, if there were no knockdown even Pac won that round on all judges (10-9), Marquez will still win that fight coz he landed more shots. Pac vs Marquez 3: No knock down and Pac landed more shots, thats why won the fight... but in case of Lederman, he always says that he favor the aggressive fighter when the round is so close...

So did Marquez in the second fight against Pacquiao. this thread needs to get bumped because if its relevance to how bias HBO is.