When Pacquiao first walked into the Wild Card, he was a force of nature, instinctive fighter that you could not predict.
Roach has made Pacquiao more of a boxer now, he tenchical ability is now up there with the best.
He much more of a thinker now in the ring, feinting, thinking about defense, trying to hit and not get hit.
But has this taking away something from the from the Beast, did Roach tame him too much.
Nacho, and Marquez mention this before the fight, that because Pacquiao is much more technical doing more things by the book he is more predictable.
Pacquiao did not throw much caution to the wind and unleash a storm in the 3rd Marquez fight.
Although many have overlooked this, Pacquiao show a lot of improvement even from the 2nd Marquez fight last night. His movement his defense, his counter punching, never really off balance, head and body movement, his accuracy.
But despite this he seems to have lost his natural instinct.
Did Roach tame the Beast?
I see we all going to act as if Manny Pacquiao is technically a better boxer now
yes he is. those who doesn't see that are morons.
but he still isn't a better technical fighter than marquez.
and trying to outbox and out-counter marquez is a stupid game plan
It is a necessity. I don't think people realise that he has aged as a fighter and is now fighting fighters bigger than him. As his speed wanes he is more likely to get caught flush and against bigger fighters his endurance will be diminish.
I think Freddie has tried to improve the fundamentals of his game so that he can still compete when father time catches up with him.
He is, I had this conversation with plenty of posters. What I would always tell them is...have we seen these improvements against Marquez/ Mayweather-style opponents, basically fighters who can move well, control distance and counter? Obviously not. Still that doesn't change the fact that he's improved as a fighter.
Now what he needs to do is...don't get technical with a superior tactician, go back to his old self, even if it means looking insanely amateurish. I still thought Marquez won the 2nd fight but Pacquiao did a whole lot better in my opinion.
you're green, turn your karma on :grr:
He is, I had this conversation with plenty of posters. What I would always tell them is...have we seen these improvements against Marquez/ Mayweather-style opponents, basically fighters who can move well, control distance and counter? Obviously not. Still that doesn't change the fact that he's improved as a fighter.
Now what he needs to do is...don't get technical with a superior tactician, go back to his old self, even if it means looking insanely amateurish. I still thought Marquez won the 2nd fight but Pacquiao did a whole lot better in my opinion.
That second fight was the perfect balance between the technical improvements he showed in the third fight and the recklessness of the first fight.
I actually thought Pac did show some very noticeable technical improvements against Marquez. He was trying to outbox someone that is simply better than him though.
I see we all going to act as if Manny Pacquiao is technically a better boxer now
He is, I had this conversation with plenty of posters. What I would always tell them is...have we seen these improvements against Marquez/ Mayweather-style opponents, basically fighters who can move well, control distance and counter? Obviously not. Still that doesn't change the fact that he's improved as a fighter.
Now what he needs to do is...don't get technical with a superior tactician, go back to his old self, even if it means looking insanely amateurish. I still thought Marquez won the 2nd fight but Pacquiao did a whole lot better in my opinion.
I see we all going to act as if Manny Pacquiao is technically a better boxer now
he is better.
is he gonna be as good as guys like floyd? no of course not.
but he is better than he was before.
Roach has made Pacquiao more of a boxer now, he tenchical ability is now up there with the best.
He much more of a thinker now in the ring, feinting, thinking about defense, trying to hit and not get hit.
:stooges: ...............
depends on the who he fights
a "wild" pacquiao would have done better against counter punching type guys who can match his speed
the boxer-puncher pacquiao does better against bigger slower guys
this.
improving your skills is a must for any boxer.
but you have to know who you are , what you're best and who your opponent is.
as much as pacquiao has improved over the last few years , why have him box against guys with superior technique?
that doesn't make sense.
He couldnt beat Marquez when he was a "beast"
And he couldnt beat Marquez now hes supposedly a "boxer".
This is true, but it's obvious which Pacquiao did better.
depends on the who he fights
a "wild" pacquiao would have done better against counter punching type guys who can match his speed
the boxer-puncher pacquiao does better against bigger slower guys
It's just terrible that Pacquiao has improved as a boxer, but gotten worse at what he needs to do to beat Mayweather. He was actually trying to outbox and outcounter freaking Juan Manuel Marquez.
If ever there was a fight where he should have just gone 2004 Manny Pacquiao again, it was this fight against Marquez. JMM would not have been able to keep a crazy ass Pacquiao off him for 12 rounds IMO.
I agree. I think Pacquiao's new found boxing skills is hurting him against the likes of Marquez and will hurt him against Mayweather. Another thing I noticed was the distance between him and Marquez during the fight. Whenever Marquez was successful, he was at a distance that Pac had to reach to connect. Marquez had all day to react. He could either counter or simply got out the way. Whenever Pacquiao closed the distance he had more success. It was the same distance Mosely fought him. The difference in that fight was Mosely had no offense. Especially, after he went down. Mosely fought scared. Marquez didn't. Pacquiao became a world class fighter on limited skills. I guess this shows the state of boxing today. No wonder Floyd Mayweather is the boxer he is. His talent (like him or not) is way ahead of everyone else.
he did better with his wild style against jmm earlier.
trying to box jmm limited jmm's counterpunching some but it limited his offense as well.
pac has the speed , power , chin on his side.
better for pac to take it to jmm , take his lumps from jmm's counters as long as he gets his.
at this weight , at his age , maybe jmm would have gotten worn down.
you never know.
pac made jmm comfortable early by being cautious.
overly cautious. even before jmm even made him pay for anything.
seems like a gameplan mistake to me on roach's part.
That is what I figured would happen, I figured JMM would end up looking good but fade because Manny being the fresher guy would eventually break down the older man through aggression.
That is two fights in a row now that Manny was very passive early, when it would have benefited him (IMO) from really pushing the peddle to the floor from the jump on older guys that should fade. Kind of surprising really.
He couldnt beat Marquez when he was a "beast"
And he couldnt beat Marquez now hes supposedly a "boxer".
he did better with his wild style against jmm earlier.
trying to box jmm limited jmm's counterpunching some but it limited his offense as well.
pac has the speed , power , chin on his side.
better for pac to take it to jmm , take his lumps from jmm's counters as long as he gets his.
at this weight , at his age , maybe jmm would have gotten worn down.
you never know.
pac made jmm comfortable early by being cautious.
overly cautious. even before jmm even made him pay for anything.
seems like a gameplan mistake to me on roach's part.
He should never have tried to outbox JMM. It's just not him.
He had his best success when he threw caution to the wind and got JMM to slug it out with him.