Vitali's best career win is against a guy who lost to Chad Dawson.

Is it safe to say Peter was never really the same after Wlad landed the hook in the 12th of the first fight in terms of aggression? Maskaev would argue against that but Maskaev got knocked out by everyone with a pulse not named Rahman (the ULTIMATE styles make fights, everyone has a Norton case there). I think if any fight really took the wind out of Peter's sails it was the McCline one, where he was knocked down three times and really manhandled like a little boy for large stretches of the early going. Peter was still plenty aggressive enough in the Toney fights which took place after the first Wlad fight. McCline, by the way, I've always though was an underrated puncher. That Peter was first dropped by him shouldn't really be held against him that much.

I personally think that had more to do with Toney being shot than Peter being better. I know that sounds unfair, but Toney looked like **** in that fight, and has looked like **** since. lets not forget Peter was bounced around like basketball by McCline right after, although to be fair McCline and Adamek are nothing alike. I dont know, the Peter that showed up against Vitali to me was in worse shape than the second Toney fight, and just had no initiative...somewhat like the Chambers fight, but to a lesser extent. I personally would favor Adamek, in a close fight, over that Peter. Prime Peter on the other hand, the one from the first Wladimir fight, probably would have beaten Adamek in my mind. Toney didn't perform as well in the rematch as in the first fight, but Peter was doing some different things in there which the commentators picked up on, constantly stuffing his jab in Toney's face and body and being very smart with his power shots, not loading up too much and varying the targets, holding Toney against the ropes with his outstretched left arm and pounding him in the body with his right. Not pretty at all, but much more effective that what he was doing in the first fight. I don't know. Toney could have got shot overnight, but without any interim fights to go on, I think it's fairer to say this is more of a case of Peter making the necessary changes and simply being better than him that night. As for his subsequent performances, it's true he didn't look nearly the same, but then you could easily make the case that it was his back to back fights with Peter that caused that. At the very least, they took a hell of a lot out of him.

Maybe; I think Adamek could jab and go left/right before Peter got off. If Peter caught him with a big shot (BIG IF) it's tough. The Peter who fought Vit, and rarely tried a jab? Yeah, that's easy work for Adamek IMO. Agree on Peter's six pack but he was an odd case, clearly sluggish even with it as his weight went up. Peter in the 240s ALWAYS looked much better than when he got close to or surpassed 250. Adamek's pretty quick on his feet when going forward or backward, but he's never impressed me much with his lateral movement and seems to lose his balance a lot when he does so. He's also not the hardest fighter to get against the ropes, and becomes very vulnerable when there. Like I said, it's hard to guage how well Peter would be able to do based on the Vitali fight, since he wasn't fighting a remotely similar opponent, but I can see him walking through Adamek's best shots and doing some damage with his digging right to the body and his short left hook especially and gradually breaking Adamek down for a late rounds stoppage or UD. Adamek could also very conceivably box rings around him, but the mid 2000s Peter was IMO a superior fighter to the Arreola that lost to Adamek.

Adamek could've outboxed Peter, but I doubt it would have been pretty easily. It would've come down to gameplans more than conditioning I think (though if Peter was grossly out of shape that would have obviously played a factor). Basically, if Peter just head hunted and went looking for one big overhand right, then Adamek would've won. If Peter had doubled and tripled the jab to the head and body and worked to trap Adamek against the ropes, then unloaded with combinations then I could've seen him getting the stoppage or winning a wide UD. Hard to say if the Peter that fought Vit was still capable of doing that though. Adamek would probably be the slight favourite versus Hide, but it's the sort of tense knife-edge affair that could turn at any moment. And whilst Adamek would probably have no problem knocking down Hide, he'd have to make damn sure he kept him there. Hide was a wild man who'd just keep swinging until he dropped or was dropped, as the Bowe fight showed. Even a woozy, ready to go Hide was still capable of seriously hurting you with some crazy out of leftfield shot, and Adamek has had several exchanges where he's been hurt when going after someone. Would be a hell of a fight actually, now that I think more about it. I agree. Hide was a nut. Bowe I believe said he hurt him more than anyone on a single shot. actually I think Maskaev would have been mowed down early in that fight ala Golota, his chin was just too much of a liability, unless Brewster had some eye problems like the Liakhovich fight...but then again Brewster struggled against Krasniqi and Meehan...hm. both were too inconsistant. There would have been fireworks while it lasted though. both Maskaev and Brewster were cool guys, and entertaining fighters. Krasniqi...the knock em out twice fight. :) To be fair to corrupt judging/officiating overseas, one can only imagine how they felt at the birthplace of the marketplace rivalry: Axel Schultz-George Foreman. Schultz...uncrowned lineal champion. Name should be where Briggs is even if he'd have lost it right away. Anyhoooooo...yeah, Brewster. Dude was basically the Heavyweight Gatti of the 00's. Win or lose, from Ettienne-Liakhovich, one was almost always getting a show.

Adamek would show up in shape, which Toney really didn't do in either fight while Peter came in lighter for the rematch . And, frankly, lighter and better conditioned than he was for Vit. Adamek moves more than Toney, by a lot, and that would be a huge factor. I think Adamek could outbox Peter pretty easy. Hide would have a punchers chance but really just wasn't that good. Solis is no question mark for me. Struggled with Austin and a fat piece of junk in most fights. Gomez was too far past it. Prime Gomez? At Cruiser? Yeah, that dude beats Adamek. Adamek could've outboxed Peter, but I doubt it would have been pretty easily. It would've come down to gameplans more than conditioning I think (though if Peter was grossly out of shape that would have obviously played a factor). Basically, if Peter just head hunted and went looking for one big overhand right, then Adamek would've won. If Peter had doubled and tripled the jab to the head and body and worked to trap Adamek against the ropes, then unloaded with combinations then I could've seen him getting the stoppage or winning a wide UD. Hard to say if the Peter that fought Vit was still capable of doing that though. Adamek would probably be the slight favourite versus Hide, but it's the sort of tense knife-edge affair that could turn at any moment. And whilst Adamek would probably have no problem knocking down Hide, he'd have to make damn sure he kept him there. Hide was a wild man who'd just keep swinging until he dropped or was dropped, as the Bowe fight showed. Even a woozy, ready to go Hide was still capable of seriously hurting you with some crazy out of leftfield shot, and Adamek has had several exchanges where he's been hurt when going after someone. Would be a hell of a fight actually, now that I think more about it.

I always liked dude too. You knew you'd see a war before the KO. Best fight we didn't see in this era: Maskaev-Lamon Brewster? actually I think Maskaev would have been mowed down early in that fight ala Golota, his chin was just too much of a liability, unless Brewster had some eye problems like the Liakhovich fight...but then again Brewster struggled against Krasniqi and Meehan...hm. both were too inconsistant. There would have been fireworks while it lasted though. both Maskaev and Brewster were cool guys, and entertaining fighters.

well, unless you count Julius Long or some other sacrificial lamb, I think thats a pretty fair statement. Maskaev had such a weird career, even from his pro debut. I liked that guy though. I always liked dude too. You knew you'd see a war before the KO. Best fight we didn't see in this era: Maskaev-Lamon Brewster?

Is it safe to say Peter was never really the same after Wlad landed the hook in the 12th of the first fight in terms of aggression? Maskaev would argue against that but Maskaev got knocked out by everyone with a pulse not named Rahman (the ULTIMATE styles make fights, everyone has a Norton case there). well, unless you count Julius Long or some other sacrificial lamb, I think thats a pretty fair statement. Maskaev had such a weird career, even from his pro debut. I liked that guy though.

In my opinion, The Klitschko's biggest problem is that theyre not one person, with the combined abilities and characteristics. you'd then be talking about an ATG top 15 HW in terms of skill, possibly not so much in terms of record because all the same fighters would still be around in the era Adamek is a solid win, and he'd compete well against most HW not named Klitschko or Haye, but Vitali or Wlad are physically too much for him. In this situation in another weight class Adamek could go away and get a title of someone else and just be content at not being the best in the division. But with the Klitschko's holding every damn belt besides the terrible WBF, it makes his HW career from here pretty pointless. None of the other guys who would be beatable for him are going to make him any money or enhance his legacy much further, so in that respect I think Adamek has hit a glass ceiling in regards to his stint at HW Just my opinion, thoughts?

I personally think that had more to do with Toney being shot than Peter being better. I know that sounds unfair, but Toney looked like **** in that fight, and has looked like **** since. lets not forget Peter was bounced around like basketball by McCline right after, although to be fair McCline and Adamek are nothing alike. I dont know, the Peter that showed up against Vitali to me was in worse shape than the second Toney fight, and just had no initiative...somewhat like the Chambers fight, but to a lesser extent. I personally would favor Adamek, in a close fight, over that Peter. Prime Peter on the other hand, the one from the first Wladimir fight, probably would have beaten Adamek in my mind. Is it safe to say Peter was never really the same after Wlad landed the hook in the 12th of the first fight in terms of aggression? Maskaev would argue against that but Maskaev got knocked out by everyone with a pulse not named Rahman (the ULTIMATE styles make fights, everyone has a Norton case there).

Peter often gets a lot of stick for being a fatty, but the only fights I can recall him being actually visibly flabby in were the Helenius and Chambers fights. In all three Klitschko fights he came in solid and thick with a six pack. It's odd to process, considering how much his gut sticks out, but there it is. The bloke was no Arreola when it came to big fights. He seemed to know when to put in the training when it counted. However, as in the Helenius and Chambers fights, Peter could sometimes half-ass it and come in to the ring undertrained, especially if he didn't consider the opponent that good. If that's the case then Adamek could very well outbox him, since the heavier Peter gets the more flat footed he gets. I can easily envision a similar fight to the Arreola one, with Adamek bouncing in and out with combinations whilst an increasingly frustrated Peter tries to land one big bomb, lunging from a wide stance as he plods slowly forward. The Peter that beat up Toney though, Adamek's in trouble. I personally think that had more to do with Toney being shot than Peter being better. I know that sounds unfair, but Toney looked like **** in that fight, and has looked like **** since. lets not forget Peter was bounced around like basketball by McCline right after, although to be fair McCline and Adamek are nothing alike. I dont know, the Peter that showed up against Vitali to me was in worse shape than the second Toney fight, and just had no initiative...somewhat like the Chambers fight, but to a lesser extent. I personally would favor Adamek, in a close fight, over that Peter. Prime Peter on the other hand, the one from the first Wladimir fight, probably would have beaten Adamek in my mind.

Peter often gets a lot of stick for being a fatty, but the only fights I can recall him being actually visibly flabby in were the Helenius and Chambers fights. In all three Klitschko fights he came in solid and thick with a six pack. It's odd to process, considering how much his gut sticks out, but there it is. The bloke was no Arreola when it came to big fights. He seemed to know when to put in the training when it counted. However, as in the Helenius and Chambers fights, Peter could sometimes half-ass it and come in to the ring undertrained, especially if he didn't consider the opponent that good. If that's the case then Adamek could very well outbox him, since the heavier Peter gets the more flat footed he gets. I can easily envision a similar fight to the Arreola one, with Adamek bouncing in and out with combinations whilst an increasingly frustrated Peter tries to land one big bomb, lunging from a wide stance as he plods slowly forward. The Peter that beat up Toney though, Adamek's in trouble. Maybe; I think Adamek could jab and go left/right before Peter got off. If Peter caught him with a big shot (BIG IF) it's tough. The Peter who fought Vit, and rarely tried a jab? Yeah, that's easy work for Adamek IMO. Agree on Peter's six pack but he was an odd case, clearly sluggish even with it as his weight went up. Peter in the 240s ALWAYS looked much better than when he got close to or surpassed 250.

I think Sanders would have beaten Adamek. Sanders, while a fatty sometimes, still hit pretty damn hard and had deceptive speed for a heavyweight. even in his loss to Rahman he still rocked Rahman pretty bad, and I personally thought he deserved a knockdown against Vitali(that is certainly up for debate however). Lets not forget, Adamek isnt exactly a defensive master, hes just pretty clever and uses his style correctly. Grant had him hurt, and that was an old Grant. Peter I think could have beaten Adamek...but only prime Peter, in other words the one that went up against Wladimir in their first fight. Fat Peter from the Vitali fight probably could have been outboxed by Adamek, since Chambers could also do it. and a win over Wladimr, even if it was a fluke, is still>anything Adamek did at HW. Im sorry, but his only real notable win was over Arreola. Ill maintain that its 1. Sanders 2. Adamek 3...probably Peter..? Peter often gets a lot of stick for being a fatty, but the only fights I can recall him being actually visibly flabby in were the Helenius and Chambers fights. In all three Klitschko fights he came in solid and thick with a six pack. It's odd to process, considering how much his gut sticks out, but there it is. The bloke was no Arreola when it came to big fights. He seemed to know when to put in the training when it counted. However, as in the Helenius and Chambers fights, Peter could sometimes half-ass it and come in to the ring undertrained, especially if he didn't consider the opponent that good. If that's the case then Adamek could very well outbox him, since the heavier Peter gets the more flat footed he gets. I can easily envision a similar fight to the Arreola one, with Adamek bouncing in and out with combinations whilst an increasingly frustrated Peter tries to land one big bomb, lunging from a wide stance as he plods slowly forward. The Peter that beat up Toney though, Adamek's in trouble.

I don't think it's crazy to say Adamek is the best win of Vitaly career....And, considering where Peter and Sanders were at at that time Vitaly fought them. I would give Adamek a hell of a shot in beating them. It's not crazy at all. Especially given the versions of Corrie Sanders and Sam Peter that came into the ring against Vitali. The fanboys seem to have gotten offended, but it's not like this is taking a shot at Vitali. It's more like taking a shot at the rest of the horrid heavyweight division.

I've read the whole thread, you seem to be immune to common sense or logic. So don't bother. Its just revealing on the pitiful state of boxing journalism today that people like you are taken seriously. I guess it could be worse, you don't write for the Ring yet. :lol1: :sleeping:

hm, well, Sanders from Vitali or Rahman still had plenty of punching power and speed, as evidence by how he was able to drop/rock Vitali, although his stamina was awful against Vitali too... I think Adamek might be able to ride the storm, but hed have taken a lot of damage during that time period. Adamek is a tough guy, but he just doesnt have enough power to get that much respect at HW, and his durability isnt high enough to just shake off Sanders blows if hes getting rocked by the likes of old man Grant and Arreola. The few punches that Sanders would land would be worth multiple shots that Adamek would hit him with. and he would eat too much leather early, by the time that Sanders gassed I think it might be too late, because I flat out dont see Adamek getting a stoppage over Sanders. I could if he rides the storm. Sanders' conditioning was never anything special (yeah, he rocked Rahman early but was toast after three...his stamina was truly dreck). More than likely, Adamek could win rounds after 2-3 and win a decision. Be interesting for sure

Yeah, but that's Sanders from the Wlad fight. The one who foiught Vit and Rahman was good for 3-6 minutes and then gasssssssed. I think Adamek can ride that storm. either way, we agree on 1-2 so it's all good. hm, well, Sanders from Vitali or Rahman still had plenty of punching power and speed, as evidence by how he was able to drop/rock Vitali, although his stamina was awful against Vitali too... I think Adamek might be able to ride the storm, but hed have taken a lot of damage during that time period. Adamek is a tough guy, but he just doesnt have enough power to get that much respect at HW, and his durability isnt high enough to just shake off Sanders blows if hes getting rocked by the likes of old man Grant and Arreola. The few punches that Sanders would land would be worth multiple shots that Adamek would hit him with. and he would eat too much leather early, by the time that Sanders gassed I think it might be too late, because I flat out dont see Adamek getting a stoppage over Sanders.

I'm shocked that someone like you is considered a boxing writer. You have no clue of what you're talking about. Do you get paid? If you have something intelligent to add, or a counter argument, feel free to add it. Otherwise, grown folks are talking so shhhhhhh.

I highly highly doubt Adamek beats Sanders. I doubt he even makes it past the sixth round unless Sanders comes in horribly out of shape and gasses. Fuk man, he nearly had Vitali out of there in the first. Even flabby golfer Sanders was a bad man. Peter would abuse Adamek the way he abused Toney in the rematch. People forget how tough and powerful the younger Peter was, and the sorts of nasty punches he could put together. Rewatch the second Toney fight and look at how Peter keeps Toney at the end of his ramrod jab, and just batters his body and head with vicious clubbing combinations when he has him against the ropes. Think Adamek could stand up to that? I don't. And we're not even factoring in the effect of rabbit punches... Herbie Hide would be an iffy fight. Hide was a vicious starter with extremely explosive hands. I wouldn't put money on either man, let's put it that way. Solis and Gomez are both question marks, Solis most of all. Adamek would show up in shape, which Toney really didn't do in either fight while Peter came in lighter for the rematch . And, frankly, lighter and better conditioned than he was for Vit. Adamek moves more than Toney, by a lot, and that would be a huge factor. I think Adamek could outbox Peter pretty easy. Hide would have a punchers chance but really just wasn't that good. Solis is no question mark for me. Struggled with Austin and a fat piece of junk in most fights. Gomez was too far past it. Prime Gomez? At Cruiser? Yeah, that dude beats Adamek.

I think Sanders would have beaten Adamek. Sanders, while a fatty sometimes, still hit pretty damn hard and had deceptive speed for a heavyweight. even in his loss to Rahman he still rocked Rahman pretty bad, and I personally thought he deserved a knockdown against Vitali(that is certainly up for debate however). Lets not forget, Adamek isnt exactly a defensive master, hes just pretty clever and uses his style correctly. Grant had him hurt, and that was an old Grant. Peter I think could have beaten Adamek...but only prime Peter, in other words the one that went up against Wladimir in their first fight. Fat Peter from the Vitali fight probably could have been outboxed by Adamek, since Chambers could also do it. and a win over Wladimr, even if it was a fluke, is still>anything Adamek did at HW. Im sorry, but his only real notable win was over Arreola. Ill maintain that its 1. Sanders 2. Adamek 3...probably Peter..? Yeah, but that's Sanders from the Wlad fight. The one who foiught Vit and Rahman was good for 3-6 minutes and then gasssssssed. I think Adamek can ride that storm. either way, we agree on 1-2 so it's all good.