How highly do you rate James Toney?

Toney wasn't quick at middleweight? Toney had good hand speed, especially in combinations. He's coordination from slipping punches to countering beautifully with speed and within the pocket is part of his raw talent and gifts if you will. You could try and teach Ricky Hatton those skills for the best of a century and he wouldn't be able to do it. Hence James Toney was gifted and a raw talent. he was very much a talent, but if you're talking about the most physically gifted fighters of all time he doesn't really warrant a mention. roy jones, muhammad ali, sugar ray leonard, these are among the most physically gifted fighters of all time, and toney doesn't have physical gifts on that level. if you're talking about the mental gifts that a fighter possesses, then i would probably agree with you in saying that he's among the most gifted. he has a fighter's constitution. he had incredible timing and reflexes, both offensively and defensively. he blended defense with offense as well as it can be done. boxing appeared natural to him. he sparred an ungodly amount. and he has one of the best chins you will ever see.

james toney, is the last of a dying breed, when it comes to throwback fighters...great chin, combinations, countering, etc....without ever being questioned about being a dirty fighter...scary when you think of what james toney, could have accomplished in titles/legacy, had he not had the weight/training issues...

Probably the best super middleweight ever. Unfortunately, he was lazy pretty often. I can't believe people still think Dave Tiberi beat him. Please. Go watch that fight again and score only the punches that land (not the shoulder punches and punches to the back). The only fights I've seen of his that I legitimately thought he lost were against Roy and the second Peter fight. Every other fight of his that I've seen I had him winning if memory serves correct. Bad judging is the biggest drawback to being a fan of boxing.

ive been watching boxing sincew about 1978. James Toney is as highly skilled as any fighter I've seen. Great, great fighter. One of my 5 favorite.

Dude had sick skills and used very little energy. Defense, chin and ring IQ were excellent. But in the end he has to get rated on wins and with his sloppy training habits I don't rate him that hight. The Jirov fight is a good example after he was written off how good he really was. Going to HW and able to take punches from naturally bigger guys was just amazing while keeping the fight competitive. Toney is a victim of himself

Helluva talent..... Real throwback fighter of his time

One of my all time favorite fighters. I rate Toney very highly was just always disappointed with how he handled his weight issues. One of if not the most relaxed fighter I have ever seen in the ring. I mean Toney could be completely out of shape and fight for 12 rounds because he was so relaxed in the ring that is just crazy to see. Toney is simply one of the best I have ever seen do it! Yer Toney had great composure, one of the cleanist and pure fighters to ever lace up gloves.

One of my all time favorite fighters. I rate Toney very highly was just always disappointed with how he handled his weight issues. One of if not the most relaxed fighter I have ever seen in the ring. I mean Toney could be completely out of shape and fight for 12 rounds because he was so relaxed in the ring that is just crazy to see. Toney is simply one of the best I have ever seen do it!

James Toney was a great fighter, but in my opinion steroids cheats shouldn't be inducted into the HOF That means the guy in your avatar will not be HOF worthy aswell.

rawrrrrr i'm a huge toney fan but really? he wasn't a huge puncher wasn't slow, but wasn't terribly fast either of hand or foot. he had a great chin, and reflexes and poise but a lot of his prowess in the ring came from his tricks and not his gifts Toney wasn't quick at middleweight? Toney had good hand speed, especially in combinations. He's coordination from slipping punches to countering beautifully with speed and within the pocket is part of his raw talent and gifts if you will. You could try and teach Ricky Hatton those skills for the best of a century and he wouldn't be able to do it. Hence James Toney was gifted and a raw talent.

Agreed. And he was very motivated that night against Toney. Toney has never looked that inept and it was clear that, even at his peak, could not beat Jones at his highest peak. A hungry, prime Jones is a tough out for anyone. A hungry prime Jones at any thing less than 175, is dare I say it unbeatable.

James Toney is one of those fighters whose career is hard to assess, how do you personally rate him? even at his peak, toney was : - drawing with sanderline williams - getting a gift decision against dave tiberi - winning life and death split decisions against sosa and johnson - getting his head boxed off by jones - losing twice to griffin - losing to thadzi then you have his best win versus nunn, where he came from way behind for a late knockout win 2 very close fights with an over the hill mccallum a good performance against barkley who had previously lost to a shot roberto duran at middleweight, and lost to nigel benn in 1 round a good win against jirov but who has jirov actually ever beat of note? then theres the fact he has twice been found guilty of taking banned anabolic steroids which significantly damages toneys reputation. do you think toney gets overated today, all things considered? Funnily enough I just watched the 2nd Griffin fight and that was a robbery. Griffin is probably the most boring spoiler I have ever seen in a ring and fought a fight that would make anyone look bad. Toney was also robbed in the first fight but it was slightly closer. If you loook at the 6 fights he had in 1991 you tell me if he's overrated. But hes conditioning let him down on numerous occasions, but for raw talent and overall boxing skill set, hes only 2nd to 1994-2002 Roy Jones Jnr. Don't under rate the wins against Mike McCallum, that guy was a beast and probably the most underrated fighter ever, He turned Toney inot the great fighter he was, polished him up if you will. Then he went up to heavyweight and still stood in the pocket with bigger men, countering them and taking thier shots. Also at a higher weight its been said that Toney was always wanting a rematch with Jones, I also read on an article where Toney said he had to 44 pounds in 6 weeks to fight Jones, which a large part is down to himself but still can't you imagine walking around losing that weight let alone fighting. Toney's an ATG, he could have had Benn, Eubank, Collins and Hopkins on his resume but none of them wanted to fight him. And I say that as a fan of Eubank and knowing how fearless Benn was, neither of them wanted Toney. Toney would have beaten Hopkins at any point in the 90's at any weight above middle and its clear as to why Hopkins stayed at middleweight as Jones and Toney went up. You must also give Barkley some credit, I mean he beat Hearns twice regardless of wether hearns was in the twighlight of his career, Toney stood right in front of Iran made him miss and just battered him. If anything I'd say Toney is rated just right especially by a tight following here on boxing scene, he just happened to be about with a prime Jones Jnr who was at the time wad the best thing ever to step into a ring.

In terms of skills the guy had it all, great outside and inside boxer with timing and accuracy too bad Roy was just too much athlete for him he was far more skilled and Roy but could do nothing to match his talent, I thought he could have won the 1st Griffin fight it was close, defo won the 2nd and was borderline robbed. He had a great comeback win though at CW against Jirov, after the Sam Peter 1 fight it was pretty much over and he should have retired then. Yep. A buddy of mine attended a post-fight party for Toney that night after the Peter bout. Pretty much everyone felt James was robbed and there was a festive mood but he said throughout it all, Toney was just...somber. Wasn't as happy at all with his performance. Perhaps he realized he had slipped badly, I don't know. I guess the next step was denial.

Great fighter, but he gets overrated around here, and he definitely overrates him self.

I think Jones beats Toney 10 times out of 10. On the outside, with his speed, timing, footwork, and footspeed. Toney has no chance. He's never going to beat Roy in those categories and he sure as hell isn't getting close to him. I expected Toney to destroy Jones but after the fight it's very apparent they were in different leagues. As exceptional as Toney was. Agreed. And he was very motivated that night against Toney. Toney has never looked that inept and it was clear that, even at his peak, could not beat Jones at his highest peak. A hungry, prime Jones is a tough out for anyone.

I think discipline is the difference that sets apart the very best from everyone else. I think a prime James Toney would always have problems with a prime Jones because of Jones' footwork. Very fast with excellent stamina, speed and power. I see a much closer fight between two all-time greats, but the same outcome. I think Jones beats Toney 10 times out of 10. On the outside, with his speed, timing, footwork, and footspeed. Toney has no chance. He's never going to beat Roy in those categories and he sure as hell isn't getting close to him. I expected Toney to destroy Jones but after the fight it's very apparent they were in different leagues. As exceptional as Toney was.

Brilliant post, I really enjoyed reading that, thanks If the best possible James Toney had showed up to face Jones, how much better do you think he would have done? Why didn't James take Roy seriously? Toney's discipline was his downfall, he had Floyd Mayweather esque talent I think discipline is the difference that sets apart the very best from everyone else. I think a prime James Toney would always have problems with a prime Jones because of Jones' footwork. Very fast with excellent stamina, speed and power. I see a much closer fight between two all-time greats, but the same outcome.

Anyone who doubts Toney's credentials needs to pop in one of the best fights of the past 20 years, Toney-Jirov. Jirov was a young but experienced, hungry and savvy, tough as nails hard-hitter who could box and brawl with the best of them. And Toney took him to school, battering him and taking several years off his career in a beautiful performance. Toney at his peak was breathtaking.

rawrrrrr i'm a huge toney fan but really? he wasn't a huge puncher wasn't slow, but wasn't terribly fast either of hand or foot. he had a great chin, and reflexes and poise but a lot of his prowess in the ring came from his tricks and not his gifts Toney always had very fast hands, and reflexes. Most of his poor performances were a direct result of him being a fat lazy bastard.

He had so much skill wasted that I don't want to call him an ATG but when I look at his resume...yes, yes he was. One of the best fighters in my time for sure.