Can we put an end to this Morales-Maidana "controversy" now?

Maidana clearly won the fight. I'd still love to see a rematch though.

I had it 7-5 Maidana. Morales faded a little late. Morales' performance was legendary even in defeat.

In general, I'm responding to you on all of this statement. I'm not sure what relevance your joking with someone who doesn't believe Jabs matter has to do with his 114-114 score being and "LOL" I do get that you were being sarcastic now. But that's not obvious from your statement, and the general context around the statement, which I was also responding too. (Maybe those can go in PM instead of on the board where everyone is responding to everyone) I also had the fight even. So please....LOL. because that score is coming for a guy who thinks jabs dont matter in a fight so..... http://www.grimmemennesker.dk/data/media/2/LOL.jpg

i definitely saw the fight as a draw. but there was no real robbery. all this fight proved to me is how limited maidana is. I had a similar conclusion. Though, I gave Morales props for going in there and risking it. It's not everyday you get to see fights you want to see, would like to see, or for boxers to put it on the line. Especially in the era we live in. Where protecting boxers is big business, and if you lose a fight, apparently you're done forever.

People do go overboard claiming Morales schooled Maidana, but Morales does have an argument that he won that fight by a round.

i definitely saw the fight as a draw. but there was no real robbery. all this fight proved to me is how limited maidana is. The Corley fight proved that to me. The funny thing is, the Argentinean commentators had Corley winning by a point. To be honest, Ortiz and Khan made Maidana look a lot better than he really is.

man you dont get it?? i was joking D4thincarnation the mr jab dont matter guy.... uffff guys in this forum are too emotional maidana won the fight Erick Won the show the end thanks... LOL at you 114-114??? D4thincarnation: jabs don matter maidana won that fight but morales look great and he did it with one eye I never thought maidana will take to steps back against morales but he did LOL morales even past his prime beat pacman so he is great morales is a legend Erik morales -----> pacman In general, I'm responding to you on all of this statement. I'm not sure what relevance your joking with someone who doesn't believe Jabs matter has to do with his 114-114 score being and "LOL" I do get that you were being sarcastic now. But that's not obvious from your statement, and the general context around the statement, which I was also responding too. (Maybe those can go in PM instead of on the board where everyone is responding to everyone) I also had the fight even. So please....LOL.

i definitely saw the fight as a draw. but there was no real robbery. all this fight proved to me is how limited maidana is.

Then don't forget it when you're looking at this fight. Maidana had a completely ineffective jab (ridiculously low connect %), Morales had a better one, with much higher connect %. man you dont get it?? i was joking D4thincarnation the mr jab dont matter guy.... uffff guys in this forum are too emotional maidana won the fight Erick Won the show the end thanks...

that is the point.... Then don't forget it when you're looking at this fight. Maidana had a completely ineffective jab (ridiculously low connect %), Morales had a better one, with much higher connect %.

What does that have to do with anything? A thread on who is more accurate? We're talking about scoring fights. Clean Punching Effective Aggressiveness (though part of this is BS to me, which leads to judges assigning points to whoever is moving forward and throwing, even if they are getting counterpunched). Ring Generalship Defense. I don't agree with Effective Aggressiveness. Because they also combine clean punching. Which to me "Clean effective punching" is the category. Ring Generalship incorporates whether the fighter is aggressive or not, it's a score of whether the fighter is able to push their style upon the other boxer. Even so.... *A cleanly landed jab counts* How about an Ike Quartay. We could argue his jab was a power punch. How can you possibly say any punch effectively landed does not count in a fight? That is laughable. What about Mayweather. If clean jabs don't count, then he's a nobody. that is the point....

sorry but: http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=496566&page=42 What does that have to do with anything? A thread on who is more accurate? We're talking about scoring fights. Clean Punching Effective Aggressiveness (though part of this is BS to me, which leads to judges assigning points to whoever is moving forward and throwing, even if they are getting counterpunched). Ring Generalship Defense. I don't agree with Effective Aggressiveness. Because they also combine clean punching. Which to me "Clean effective punching" is the category. Ring Generalship incorporates whether the fighter is aggressive or not, it's a score of whether the fighter is able to push their style upon the other boxer. Effective aggression is demonstrated when a fighter presses forward, and in doing so, scores more clean punches, or more damaging blows, than his opponent. If a boxer is a particularly hard puncher, even blows that are not landed particularly clean, but obviously affect his opponent, are given scoring weight. Even so.... *A cleanly landed jab counts* How about an Ike Quartay. We could argue his jab was a power punch. How can you possibly say any punch effectively landed does not count in a fight? That is laughable. What about Mayweather. If clean jabs don't count, then he's a nobody.

So you're saying Morales clearly won 9 rounds? Wow.... Reading comprehension? Please point out where I said he won 9 rounds. (And where I said he "clearly" won them). Ring generalship Defense Effective Punching Too many judges today associate the guy throwing and running down the other boxer as having scored "ring generalship" which is nonsense. My other post puts it plainly. I said Morales clearly won 3 rounds. Maidana clearly won 3. I gave 3 more to Morales and 3 more to Maidana that were closer. Round 2, 6, 7 I gave to Maidana, it looked like he won the rounds, but his punches did not look to have much effect on Morales. So I'm not saying "he clearly won those rounds" What he did do in those rounds was outland Morales by a margin (not equal to 1, 11, 12 which were larger margins) and Morales was not controlling the action with effective counter punches, ring movement, etc. i.e. Maidana was dictating how those rounds were fought and landing more scoring punches that were the same effective level as Morales punches. Morales had better defense in those rounds. So again....basic scoring principles. Ring Generalship, Rounds 2, 6, 7 Maidana. Defense, Rounds 2, 6, 7. Morales. Effective Punching, both punches were throwing effective, clean, power punches, but Maidana landed more by a slight margin. 2, 6, 7. Maidana. My rules followed for the other rounds. I don't think it's even disputable that Morales won 8,9,10. (Madiana won 1, 11, 12, no dispute). 3, 4, 5. After getting assaulted in 1, 2. Morales took Maidana off his plan. Maidana threw 69 and 57 power punches in 1 and 2. Dropped to 38 in 3. That was the result of Morales dictating the round. Ring Generalship. 4 and 5. Power punches were almost exactly equal. But Morales landed at a much higher connect %, had better defense, and again, Ring Generalship. In round 5, Maidana started to turn it back on again, but Morales was just as effective. Ring Generalship, 3, 4, Morales, 5 Maidana/Morales even Defense, 3, 4, 5, Morales Effective Punching, 3, 4, 5, Basically even in effective punches (both power and otherwise), though Morales was more accurate so that's slight advantage to him. So. 6 rounds to 6. I scored 6 and 7 for Maidana because he re-established his dominance, outlanded morales, and Morales clearly was not able to contain Maidana and assert his gameplan. _________ To me there was 6 close rounds in this fight were 3, 4, 5. I gave them all to Morales because if you follow the scoring rules, he won them. Even by the scoring rules, the rounds were close. But what trumped those rounds was Morales was able to stop Maidana from fighting the way he wanted to. Morales had better defense. Rounds, 2, 6, 7 may "seem" like they weren't close because Maidana did land more and he was pushing his style (being the aggressive boxer punching coming forward), but his connect % was still low. And Morales was also landing, not just jabs, but power shots. In close rounds, it's important to go back to the scoring rules and really take a look at them. Instead of simply checking off that one guy was coming forward throwing punches.

I remember thinking the fight was a draw though I have no complaints with the result. Putting the result to the side Morales looked better in that fight, he made Maidana look foolish in the rounds he won, Maidana didn't really trouble Morales in the rounds that he won.

Uhuh............... Jabs do matter if you actually have judges who are judging a fight. Not just whoever is throwing a lot of power punches (and missing a lot of them). Aside from the fact that if you take out the rounds that Maidana and Morales clearly won (Maidana 1, 11, 12, Morales 8,9,10) Maidana landed only *a few* more power shots in each of those rounds, around 3 on average. That's not that much in a back and forth. In which case, you should also be counting other punches landed. In addition to the fact that Morales had Maidana in more trouble than Maidana ever had him in during the fight. That goes to "the more telling punches" I had it a draw myself. Morales, 3, 4, 5, 8, 9, 10. Maidana 1, 2, 6, 7, 11, 12. sorry but: http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=496566&page=42

I can't name a single 12 round fight where he didn't get tired in the later rounds. Its always his downfall. He gassed against Corley, Khan and Morales. Fortunately Khan and Morales, they were just as tired so he was able to have some success, and Corley was just finished. He threw 113 punches in round 12 of the morales fight (89 were power punches, not flash punches like Paul Williams who will throw 1200 punches a fight with little behind them). More than any other round in the fight. So..................he was gassed? But not earlier, when he was throwing less? He had Kahn badly hurt in the 10th and he had enough gas to pursue him all over the place as Kahn ran all over the ring. Again, in this fight he threw 70 power punches in the 10th and his fight peak 72 in the 12th. I don't care what you say, no one can sit there and throw that many *power* punches that late in the fight and be "gased". I've seen all those fights. He was still throwing hard shots at the end of each of them. The guy doesn't throw power punches any other way. They aren't flash punches like guys like Paul Williams when he's throw 1000+ a fight. There are guys who can do just as much as he does consistently for 12 rounds. Look at Antonio Margarito. He's bigger, hits just as hard and he was able to a compubox high against Clottey. Marg who looked dead against Shane? Where was his stamina then? Context on the Clottey fight. He was getting his *ASS* kicked until Clottey hurt his hand/arm. He probably would not have thrown that much if the fight continued like it was. But we've always known Marg throws a lot. I don't recall questioning his stamina much, so why are you saying Maidana gases when he throws just as much.

Even Floyd Mayweather appreciates Pacquiao's win over Morales. He is ringside cheering Pacquiao on and booing Morales. Mayweather looked like he really enjoyed his night. LOL mayweather dont mind who won the fight he just was there like a boxing fan BTW morales outbox pacquiao the first time and dont forget manny pacquiao excuse after that: wrong gloves I am a Erik Morales fan but yes Maidana won that fight Erick won the show

I can't give him the "close" rounds because he didn't control the rounds. Morales controlled the close rounds with defense and more accurate punching. I'm not going to give a guy rounds simply because he throws 48 power punches and manages to land 8. (Round 4). Morales threw 31 and Landed 7. If anything, to me, it makes a boxer look ineffective. Which in my book is part of scoring "Effective punching" Aside from the start of the fight, and maybe the last 2 rounds, Maidana's power punches really weren't impacting Morales. Which surprised me. So you're saying Morales clearly won 9 rounds? Wow....

I suppose a draw is not crazy, but I'm only saying that because there are 6 rounds I can think of right now without a doubt that Maidana clearly won. I can't give him the "close" rounds because he didn't control the rounds. Morales controlled the close rounds with defense and more accurate punching. I'm not going to give a guy rounds simply because he throws 48 power punches and manages to land 8. (Round 4). Morales threw 31 and Landed 7. If anything, to me, it makes a boxer look ineffective. Which in my book is part of scoring "Effective punching" Aside from the start of the fight, and maybe the last 2 rounds, Maidana's power punches really weren't impacting Morales. Which surprised me.

It's a bit silly saying "he did that with one eye" Didn't Maidana cause the that with a Punch?. Whats saying it wouldn't happen again in a rematch. Yes Maidana caused it with a punch. But, it's not silly at all. Knowing that he fought the next 11 rounds with just one eye now is it? But, again that mixed in whit Maidana performance against a shot to pieces Corley shows how average Maidana is as a fighter.