A few thoughts on Ortiz/Money May.

My basic point, is more so a question of Victor's actual chances of victory. It'll be the general consensus that the odds are obviously in Floyd's favor, but overall, I'm not so sure this match up is as perfectly cherry picked as his previous bouts. If you look at the details, it's surprisingly juicy for Floyd, and as I said... possibly risky, at least compared to his last four or five fights. The fans should be excited about this match up, for several reasons, despite the media's obsession with a Pacquiao clash. Usually, there's something that Floyd, or his camp, sees in a fighter as being vulnerable to Floyd's style and comfort zone, and makes it easier to accept the fight. This might sound like a criticism, but rarely do any fighters get in the ring with someone they Know has a better chance of beating them they do their opponent. I would even go as far as to say that Judah's loss to Baldomir convinced Floyd to take that fight, however, if you rewatch the video, it's obvious that Mayweather had some issues with Judah, not necessarily because Zab was an elite boxer (and he was never terrible), but because he was a southpaw, and a respectably quick one at that. This goes without saying, but Floyd is a defensive genius, who...when hit at all makes the crowd ooh and aah. The Judah fight is not an excellent example of a southpaw having his number, and this is not my point, since I don't think anyone has ever had his number, except for maybe the Gold Medal final he lost as an amateur. I don't think Floyd is very vulnerable to any boxer anywhere near his weight class, however, I'm not so sure Floyd has ever been hurt, and if anyone can get close enough and active enough to do it, it would be an aggressive southpaw. A young, tough, confident southpaw who will make Floyd engage. I understand that Floyd sees $ signs, and a glorified tune up for Manny in this match up with Ortiz, but when he says he won't look past the young Mexican, he better mean it. Ortiz is not half the athletic talent that Mayweather is, but war is rarely fair or understanding of knowledge and experience on their own, and in a sport where fine tuned men use their fists to hurt other men, Ortiz is the only one of the two who has actually, sincerely, gone to war. This, on its own, is not enough to say that Ortiz will hurt Floyd. We've all seen what Mayweather has done to brawlers. See Gatti. Going to war in the past doesn't necessarily give you the secret powers to defeat a boxing genius, but Victor Ortiz is ten years younger, has knocked down every one of his opponents, and has no problem getting hit. Floyd will box, and get aggressive when he sees signs of vulnerability, but if he gets hit hard early (like he did against Corley, Judah & Mosley), we all know that Ortiz will press in hard, unlike his predecessors. Ortiz only knows one speed, which is forward, but he's young and quick enough to afford to get away with it most of the time, and he seems to enjoy getting hit. Against Maidana, Ortiz opened himself up, and admittedly had too much fun, got too wild, took a bad cut, and the fight was ended prematurely, but not before he planted the tough Argentinian three times. The fact that Ortiz has lost, and still continued to go to war, fight after fight, makes him scarier, or at least more likable as a threat. Floyd will be quicker than Victor. He'll be sly, clever, and counter on almost everything the young Mexican throws, but when he gets hit, it won't be a small unresponsive Marquez, or a fading Mosley, who refuses to chase, but an enthusiastic kid trying to take his head off. If Mayweather truly believes that he wil stay in the center of the ring and engage (which is what he's said in the press conferences), and not "box", then I think we're all in that very, very rare fireworks show we've all be desperately wanting from a Mayweather fight. Someone's gonna get hurt, here. If this fight is on the up and up, it certainly won't be Mosley/Pacquiao or Mayweather/Marquez, and I'm not promising Ward/Neary or Vitali/Lennox, but what we'll see will DEFINE Mayweather's image to the public. If he stops Ortiz, the Pacquiao fight will be the biggest fight event of our generation. If Ortiz somehow beats Floyd, Ortiz will be the new poster boy, and millions of sports fan will follow. Many people dislike Mayweather, and if this kid beats him, we'll have a likable boxing star for the mainstream, with a huge future in front of him.

Am I merely skeptical, and fantastically presumptuous, or does this decision seem drastically uncharacteristic for Floyd, with a possible faint whiff of a "set up"? If you look closely at the details, it almost doesn't make any sense for Floyd to want this fight. A young, brash, tough, hard hitting, aggressive south paw, ten years his junior, who has knocked *down all of his opponents..., win, lose or draw. The kid is 24 years old, and is coming off a beautiful war with an undefeated Berto, who was favored in the fight. Even in his most recent loss, to Maidana, the Mexican kid knocked down his opponent three times, on his way to "losing" because of a bad cut. It proves that he'll go toe to toe with anyone, take a hit, and give it harder. Except for maybe his draw with Peterson, Ortiz is a forward marching beast, an unrelenting brawler, who obviously presents a REAL threat to Mayweather. Not only because he's a southpaw, or because he's a 24 year old picture perfect boxing prodigy, but because the kid really has his head on straight. He's charismatic, he's sharp, and he actually gives the fans what they want. A fight. He may not be Marvin Hagler, but he's not far off enough for Mayweather to consider him a realistic tune up. How can Mayweather not see this as a massive risk? If he loses this fight, from a sudden left hook to the chin (and we all know he's vulnerable from that side), or constant aggression from a guy who will throw more punches (guaranteed) round for round, he will miss out on possibly the BIGGEST, most desired boxing event of our generation. This is why I ask the question to my fellow boxing fans; is this a fix? A prearranged, glorified sparring session, where Mayweather can prepare for Pacquaio with ease, and grant a young southpaw his biggest pay day...to date? I understand that Ortiz may not have the skills of Mayweather, and this is all obvious. Floyd is a defensive genius, and would likely be confident with anyone anywhere near his weight, however, why choose Ortiz for a tune up? Why this particular young, CHAMPION southpaw? It's uncharacteristic for a guy who likes to fight smaller, weaker, or shot fighters. We either have a case of a monetary agreement between a multi millionare and a future "star" of boxing, which will benefit them both, especially if Floyd wins, OR...a misjudgment of ego, and lack of foresight for Mayweather. Manny Pacquiao is waiting in the wings, regardless of the results, but I doubt Floyd would consciously, logically, risk this Magnum Opus of such an event, by stepping into the ring with an eager young warrior, who will be head hunting. I propose the idea that if Zab Judah & Mosley can hit Floyd, then Ortiz will hit him harder, and more often. Why risk it, before the possibility of the biggest fight in at least a decade? And, I propose this, if Victor Ortiz ever reads this. Read this carefully. Win. Forget about the agreement, if there is one, and knock him out. Have some pride. Whatever amount of money Mayweather's camp, or investors, might give you for participating in a glorified sparring session..., I promise you will make far more, in spades, a hundred fold, in the future, if you knock out the undefeated Money May. - T High quality post.

I haven't changed my stance on this fight. Given Mayweather's layoff, the age disparity, and the factor that father time might get creep up on Floyd, Ortiz is an opponent that has a better chance to beat Floyd than either Mosley, Márquez, or Hatton. I believe he has a better chance than all of them had going into the fight with Mayweather. He's young, fast, hard-hitting, has a southpaw style and is explosive. His only downfall, and one which I doubt he will succumb to, is heart. I think he won't allow himself to be stopped or to quit in front of such a large audience. And another thing, this will be BY FAR Victor's biggest test in front of a MASSIVE audience watching globally and the kid's 24. Mental pressure anyone? It's going to be interesting how Floyd's aged and see how many people change their outlook on a potential Mayweather/Pacquiao fight after this...

Sure. That's true. I wouldn't debate that, however, Marquez had never fought at such a weight, and I think the size difference was a major issue. Plus, I think it was obvious how much slower Marquez was, even before the fight. Hatton beat Castillo on an early body shot, which seemed suspicious, and perfectly catered as a tune up to a planned Mayweather bout. Hatton was never considered to be in the same league as Money May, despite his win over Tszyu. Mosley seemed like the most promising, least cherry picked mirage, but years after his prime. Also, Margarito was drastically overrated, with or without loaded his gloves with a cement wrap, and I don't think most of us should've been as surprised as we were when Shane knocked him out. It was a great fight, though. Mosley took care of him a whole lot easier than with Mayorga. Mosley has always had more issues with technical boxers, like Forrest than with brawlers, and Mayweather obviously had an older, slower Mosley in his sights, knowing how to chow down. That brings us to Oscar, who did knockout Mayorga, like most do, but before that he was beaten by Bernard and had an iffy, questionable victory over Sturm. I think Mayweather smells weakness and goes for it. With Ortiz, I'm not sure he smells the right meal. I think it's riskier than most might think.

I think its Aug 27th Sweet. Miss the HBO 24/7 coverage for fights...Fight Camp 360 just doesn't cut it for me.

what will the odds be on this fight??? does Ortiz really even have a chance? i remember when Vanes would punish him at WildCard... he may be wayyy over his head goin against the P4P #1

:stupid: Lol...btw I can't see Ortiz lying down for Floyd in this fight. The guy's got the momentum here & he'd be stupid to even entertain the idea. But Ortiz better come correct on September 17th otherwise Floyd is gonna make him like foolish. On a side note, does anyone know when 24/7 starts? I think its Aug 27th

This guy uses Margarito as an icon picture. It makes sense, really. I'd rather be cheesy than ignorant. It's like shooting anchovies in a tecate can, over here. Your idol is an overrated cheater, who was defeated by a slow, aged Sugar Shane, even with his gloves loaded. Watch some more fights, educate yourself in the history of the sport, and find a better role model. Perhaps Butter Bean might be a step up, good sir. :stupid: Lol...btw I can't see Ortiz lying down for Floyd in this fight. The guy's got the momentum here & he'd be stupid to even entertain the idea. But Ortiz better come correct on September 17th otherwise Floyd is gonna make him like foolish. On a side note, does anyone know when 24/7 starts?

If Ortiz wants to stop Floyd he better develop a wicked overhand right and a decent jab to set it up with. He won't be fast enough to sneak a hard straight left through Floyd's peek-a-boo guard. If he throws that hard left when Floyd's in the philly shell, he'll get countered hard all night.

This guy uses Margarito as an icon picture. It makes sense, really. I'd rather be cheesy than ignorant. It's like shooting anchovies in a tecate can, over here. Your idol is an overrated cheater, who was defeated by a slow, aged Sugar Shane, even with his gloves loaded. Watch some more fights, educate yourself in the history of the sport, and find a better role model. Perhaps Butter Bean might be a step up, good sir.

Am I merely skeptical, and fantastically presumptuous, ? And, I propose this, if Victor Ortiz ever reads this. Read this carefully. Win. Forget about the agreement, if there is one, and knock him out. Have some pride. Whatever amount of money Mayweather's camp, or investors, might give you for participating in a glorified sparring session..., I promise you will make far more, in spades, a hundred fold, in the future, if you knock out the undefeated Money May. - T :lol1::lol1: Cheesy ass dude go back to writing pre-teen romance novels.

I should also add, that in my defense, as someone who "knows the sport," good sir, Ortiz hit Berto several times with left hooks, and not just within the combination that first dropped him, which ended with a straight left. You should go back and watch it, just in case you were doing something else at the time of that fight. I can also cite actual articles for evidence to back up the fact that Ortiz did indeed throw that punch (actually...here, Victor's left hooks are mentioned twice: sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=6372519). And, just to clarify, Ortiz is indeed a bonafide southpaw, and incorporates the left hook with consistency, despite what's believed to be a somehow strictly orthodox punch. Did I really need to say that? Let's keep this discussion informed & educated. And, as far as Mayweather being vulnerable to southpaws, I think this is the general opinion of those who have followed Mayweather throughout his career. However, I admit that "vulernable" is a strong term, since he's handled himself beautifully in all situations, regardless of being caught more frequently from the left side.

Golden Boy Headquarters Las Vegas, NV Oscar de la Hoya and Victor Ortiz sit at a table facing each other Oscar- "I think you're gonna find when all this sh-it is over and done I think you're gonna find yourself one smilin' motherfu-cker." (A hand lays an envelope full of money on the table in front of Victor. Victor picks it up.) Now the night of the fight, you may feel a slight sting, that's pride fu-ckin' wit ya. fu-ck pride! Cause a year from now, when you're kickin' it in the Caribbean you're gonna say "Oscar de la Hoya was right." Victor- "I got no problem with that." Oscar- "In the fifth, your ass goes down. Say it!" Victor- "In the fifth, my ass goes down."

After seeing a fixed fight the other night, your presumption is actually pretty good. I think you're wrong about Mayweather fighting weaker opponents - he's got a pretty solid resume, but the idea about a fix is plausible. If Ortiz fights the way he did against Berto, he's got a good chance. If he fights like he did with Peterson - no way. If it goes to the cards, Mayweather wins.

Thank you for highlighting the quote for us all. As I said, and everyone can see above, "...he's vulnerable from that side," was the exact statement. It's obvious to anyone who actually read the posting adequately that I used the "left hook" as a mere example of a possible punch Ortiz might deliver (from that side), and did not specifically say that he's vulnerable to left hooks precisely. And, I'm not a tool. I read things thoroughly.

Am I merely skeptical, and fantastically presumptuous, or does this decision seem drastically uncharacteristic for Floyd, with a possible faint whiff of a "set up"? If you look closely at the details, it almost doesn't make any sense for Floyd to want this fight. A young, brash, tough, hard hitting, aggressive south paw, ten years his junior, who has knocked *down all of his opponents..., win, lose or draw. The kid is 24 years old, and is coming off a beautiful war with an undefeated Berto, who was favored in the fight. Even in his most recent loss, to Maidana, the Mexican kid knocked down his opponent three times, on his way to "losing" because of a bad cut. It proves that he'll go toe to toe with anyone, take a hit, and give it harder. Except for maybe his draw with Peterson, Ortiz is a forward marching beast, an unrelenting brawler, who obviously presents a REAL threat to Mayweather. Not only because he's a southpaw, or because he's a 24 year old picture perfect boxing prodigy, but because the kid really has his head on straight. He's charismatic, he's sharp, and he actually gives the fans what they want. A fight. He may not be Marvin Hagler, but he's not far off enough for Mayweather to consider him a realistic tune up. How can Mayweather not see this as a massive risk? If he loses this fight, from a sudden left hook to the chin (and we all know he's vulnerable from that side), or constant aggression from a guy who will throw more punches (guaranteed) round for round, he will miss out on possibly the BIGGEST, most desired boxing event of our generation. This is why I ask the question to my fellow boxing fans; is this a fix? A prearranged, glorified sparring session, where Mayweather can prepare for Pacquaio with ease, and grant a young southpaw his biggest pay day...to date? I understand that Ortiz may not have the skills of Mayweather, and this is all obvious. Floyd is a defensive genius, and would likely be confident with anyone anywhere near his weight, however, why choose Ortiz for a tune up? Why this particular young, CHAMPION southpaw? It's uncharacteristic for a guy who likes to fight smaller, weaker, or shot fighters. We either have a case of a monetary agreement between a multi millionare and a future "star" of boxing, which will benefit them both, especially if Floyd wins, OR...a misjudgment of ego, and lack of foresight for Mayweather. Manny Pacquiao is waiting in the wings, regardless of the results, but I doubt Floyd would consciously, logically, risk this Magnum Opus of such an event, by stepping into the ring with an eager young warrior, who will be head hunting. I propose the idea that if Zab Judah & Mosley can hit Floyd, then Ortiz will hit him harder, and more often. Why risk it, before the possibility of the biggest fight in at least a decade? And, I propose this, if Victor Ortiz ever reads this. Read this carefully. Win. Forget about the agreement, if there is one, and knock him out. Have some pride. Whatever amount of money Mayweather's camp, or investors, might give you for participating in a glorified sparring session..., I promise you will make far more, in spades, a hundred fold, in the future, if you knock out the undefeated Money May. - T not that I read the entire diatribe of crap but the bolded made me chuckle Ortiz is a southpaw so if he were to land my guess would be a straight left and not a left hook, which if you know the sport is much more common in um .........right handed fighters

I appreciate the responses. Fair enough. However, I didn't specifically state that Mayweather is vulnerable to the left hook itself, but that he's shown to be a bit more vulnerable to southpaws, primarily to his oft chosen comfort zone and stance. I just threw out the idea of a possible Ortiz "left hook" catching him, as an example, implying that Floyd has shown to be more vulnerable to lefties since his earlier days. And, when I say vulnerable, I realize that Mayweather hasn't shown many vulnerabilities at all, however the Chop Chop Corley & Judah fights show that Floyd would prefer to fight orthodox fighters. Exact quote: "How can Mayweather not see this as a massive risk? If he loses this fight, from a sudden left hook to the chin (and we all know he's vulnerable from that side), or constant aggression from a guy who will throw more punches (guaranteed) round for round, he will miss out on possibly the BIGGEST, most desired boxing event of our generation." Also, I mean no disrespet to Floyd, who I agree is a phenomenal athelete and brilliant technician. I'm obviously just raising a hypothetical question about the upcoming fight, which I'm very excited about, and to see what the current buzz is around Victor's chances, and the legitimacy of the fight itself. Its all good homie. Aint nothing like a good boxing match and this one is must see. Even most Floyd fans agree that Ortiz may pull it off or atleast rock his ass, espically early. I just think both guys are past the point in there careers of throwing fights and neither guy I dont think has it in him. I mean Ortiz is on top of the world now. His confidence is sky him. If you ass him to take a dive now, he'll probably try to kill you because he thinks he can beat everyone. Meanwhile Floyd will make millions even against a bum so he doesnt need to throw a fight. He probably wants Pac next and Ortiz is the best guy to get him ready for that. I think Floyd probably feels that he wins or if he loses then he wouldnt have beaten Pac anyways. If you know of me then you know I talk about the Southpaw advantage more then anyone on this site. I think its huge in all of pro sports, espically boxing. I think if Pac or Ortiz were righty then he would straight dominate them easily everytime but them being Southpaw means they could be serious threats

I appreciate the responses. Fair enough. However, I didn't specifically state that Mayweather is vulnerable to the left hook itself, but that he's shown to be a bit more vulnerable to southpaws, primarily to his oft chosen comfort zone and stance. I just threw out the idea of a possible Ortiz "left hook" catching him, as an example, implying that Floyd has shown to be more vulnerable to lefties since his earlier days. And, when I say vulnerable, I realize that Mayweather hasn't shown many vulnerabilities at all, however the Chop Chop Corley & Judah fights show that Floyd would prefer to fight orthodox fighters. Exact quote: "How can Mayweather not see this as a massive risk? If he loses this fight, from a sudden left hook to the chin (and we all know he's vulnerable from that side), or constant aggression from a guy who will throw more punches (guaranteed) round for round, he will miss out on possibly the BIGGEST, most desired boxing event of our generation." Also, I mean no disrespet to Floyd, who I agree is a phenomenal athelete and brilliant technician. I'm obviously just raising a hypothetical question about the upcoming fight, which I'm very excited about, and to see what the current buzz is around Victor's chances, and the legitimacy of the fight itself. :tool::guilty:

I appreciate the responses. Fair enough. However, I didn't specifically state that Mayweather is vulnerable to the left hook itself, but that he's shown to be a bit more vulnerable to southpaws, primarily to his oft chosen comfort zone and stance. I just threw out the idea of a possible Ortiz "left hook" catching him, as an example, implying that Floyd has shown to be more vulnerable to lefties since his earlier days. And, when I say vulnerable, I realize that Mayweather hasn't shown many vulnerabilities at all, however the Chop Chop Corley & Judah fights show that Floyd would prefer to fight orthodox fighters. Exact quote: "How can Mayweather not see this as a massive risk? If he loses this fight, from a sudden left hook to the chin (and we all know he's vulnerable from that side), or constant aggression from a guy who will throw more punches (guaranteed) round for round, he will miss out on possibly the BIGGEST, most desired boxing event of our generation." Also, I mean no disrespet to Floyd, who I agree is a phenomenal athelete and brilliant technician. I'm obviously just raising a hypothetical question about the upcoming fight, which I'm very excited about, and to see what the current buzz is around Victor's chances, and the legitimacy of the fight itself.

History will repeat itself... by James Slater - Exactly nineteen long years ago this very day, all-time great "Sugar" Ray Leonard suffered the fate of losing in what was his Madison Square Garden debut. Pushing his luck by, A: fighting on at the relatively advanced age of 33, and by B: dropping back down to as low a weight as 154-pounds for the first time in well over six years, Leonard met the much younger "Terrible" Terry Norris, in a WBC light-middleweight title challenge. Norris, who was a full decade the younger man, was seen by some as a new star of boxing; the man who could maybe even take over from Leonard as the megastar of the lower weight classes. Coming into the February 9th, 1991 fight off the back of five straight victories, including the sensational 1st-round destruction of John "The Beast" Mugabi he'd scored to win his crown, Norris was still only a slight favourite to beat Leonard. Perhaps the reason for this was the fact that Norris, in an earlier 154-pound title challenge, this one for the WBA belt, had been blown away inside two-rounds by Julian Jackson. Leonard may not have been as lethal a one-punch killer as was "The Hawk," but he was a hard hitter nonetheless, and he was so much more experienced than Norris - to say nothing of "Sugar's" undeniable greatness. It was with all this on his mind that the 26-3 Norris entered the ring in New York to face the 36-1-1 living legend.. To the surprise to a good number of fans and even experts, Norris all but dominated Leonard from the opening bell. Shocking "The Sugarman" in the 2nd-round, and again in the 7th-round with hurtful knockdowns (even following up and belting Ray while he was down on the occasion of one of the knockdowns), Norris succeeded in busting Leonard's lip, having him on the brink of a stoppage loss and painfully reminding him how dangerous it can be for any fighter, no matter how great, to stick around in "Dodge City" - as Ray's then trainer Pepe Correa called it - for too long. In front of a pretty poor live gate (Madison Square Garden was no way close to full for Sugar Ray's debut there unfortunately), the new stud gave the old master a pretty sad-to-watch beating. But then, as legendary British commentary Harry Carpenter said as he was calling the fight for BBC, it was hard to feel too sorry for Leonard because of the courage he was showing in there. Indeed, though his reflexes were faded, and though his punch resistance was too, the five-weight world champion's raw courage was as evident as ever. Even managing to win a few rounds on the cards, Leonard somehow made it through to the 12th and final round; managing to navigate the danger this last three minutes posed him also. At the end it was nowhere near close on any of the three cards - with one judge scoring for Norris by a whopping margin of 120-104 - but Leonard had at least avoided the ignominy of being KO'd or stopped for what would have been the first time in his long and illustrious career. Norris, a gracious winner, had defended his WBC belt for the second time. Afterwards, speaking to those fans in attendance who had bothered to turn up, Leonard thanked his supporters and told them this would be his last fight. Sadly, as we all know, it wasn't. Though he had refused to be KO'd or stopped against Norris - who never actually went on to become the huge star some judges felt he would maybe do - Leonard unwisely made the decision to try his luck one more time; against the relatively light-punching Hector Camacho, in March of 1997; some six years after the loss to Norris. On this occasion, showing us once and for all how little Leonard had left, "Macho" finished the job Norris had pretty much already accomplished, and ended the career of the former Olympic medallist - stopping Ray in the 5th-round in Atlantic City, New Jersey. Leonard, who is in much better shape than is the reportedly almost unintelligible Norris, jokes today of how he bought up the rights to both his final ring appearances, so as to prevent anyone from ever viewing them again. As intelligent and smart a guy as he is, Leonard should never have had the fights with Norris and Camacho in the first place! Despite losing his last two outings, however, Leonard's place in boxing history is secure. So too is Norris' - although not quite as exalted. Wins over Don Curry, Meldrick Taylor and Simon Brown followed for Norris, but it could be argued how the win that took place nineteen years ago today was his finest hour. "Terrible," overall a three-time 154-pound titlist, fought until late 1998, retiring with a 47-9(31) record.