Can we stop with these threads that Vlad is one of the greatest of all time?

Vitali has: Samuel Peter Tomasz Adamek Kirk Johnson Kevin Johnson Corrie Sanders Chris Arreola Juan Carlos Gomez Thats a pretty solid resume and enough to get him in the HOF especially considering how dominate he has been. And what superior fighters that should be in that aren't? Lets not give Vitaly fantasy wins. And, that's not enough for the HOF...Sorry.... Wlad no doubt about it...Not only is he a first ballot. But, also a top 15 ATG...Vitaly not so much. And, nobody said anything about superstar. But, superior fighters. Because, you were talking about lesser fighters are in. So that must mean that Vitaly would get in...Which is not the case. Because superior fighters are not in the HOF.

Sorry, but, Wladimir is an ATG and will be remembered as an ATG when he retires. He isn't the best heavyweight in generic terms ONLY because he doesn't have the resume. BUT: He's the most gifted heavyweight of all time. Period. Now before you reply with an emotional nonsensical rant, take a minute and really asses the situation. Look at his skills. There is no denying Wladimir is the greatest big man to ever fight. He might not have the power that Lewis had, but he's faster and has better footwork. He's also more athletic than Lewis was with better defense. Basically, Wladimir is better at what he does, than Lewis was at what he did. Wladimir is more dominant. Lack of opposition, yes, I'll give you that. It still doesn't take away from the fact Wlad is SO MUCH BETTER than all the other heavyweights minus his brother, Vitali. Wladimir is the most technically superior heavyweight of all time. Every punch he throws is text-book. His jab is among the best of all time in ANY division. Wlad is so damn good, and so dominant that people in America want him to retire BECAUSE he's always in control. Go back and watch his fight with Mercer. Pay attention to what Ronnie Shields has to say about Wlad's punching power, speed, etc. Whether you like it or not, he will go down as an ATG and will most definitely be in the HOF. I agree. People make resume the end all be all. There are countless fighters (which I can easily name) who are considered ATG's but lack a strong resume.

That was just one example...I can give more, Duran with the rest of the fab 4....Tyson-Douglas, Arguello-Marcel....Point is H2H determines nothing when it comes to greatness. And, of course dominance is something that rated highly...That goes under accomplishments...One of the things I mentioned...Resume and accomplishment is what determines ATG ranking not H2H match up does not. And, Wlad is the #1 guy in the division. Not Vitaly...Vitaly is not a HOF'er....There might be lesser fighters who are in. But, there are also superior fighters by a wide margin who are not in. Vitali has: Samuel Peter Tomasz Adamek Kirk Johnson Kevin Johnson Corrie Sanders Chris Arreola Juan Carlos Gomez Thats a pretty solid resume and enough to get him in the HOF especially considering how dominate he has been. And what superior fighters that should be in that aren't?

I don't do atg rankings, something I mentioned in another thread. With that said, my reply stated "I can see how someone can rank them as two of the greatest HW's based off of ability" which is why I brought up the fact that most, if not all of those HW's (minus Ali and Lewis) would probably get dominated by both. It's not Wlad or Vitali's fault they are that much better than every other HW in their era and I think it's a b.s. excuse to use that as a reason to place them in outside the top 25 like a lot of posters are trying to do. Only in boxing would such bullsh1t (not a diss towards you but speaking in general) logic be used. Shaq dominated his era when almost all the ATG centers/big men were gone but people don't use that as an excuse to not rate him high. In other sports their are countless examples of this as well, but boxing has such pathetic fans that any excuse is used to discredit fighters. Shaq is a Black american though. Thats an automatic pass.

Sorry, but, Wladimir is an ATG and will be remembered as an ATG when he retires. He isn't the best heavyweight in generic terms ONLY because he doesn't have the resume. BUT: He's the most gifted heavyweight of all time. Period. Now before you reply with an emotional nonsensical rant, take a minute and really asses the situation. Look at his skills. There is no denying Wladimir is the greatest big man to ever fight. He might not have the power that Lewis had, but he's faster and has better footwork. He's also more athletic than Lewis was with better defense. Basically, Wladimir is better at what he does, than Lewis was at what he did. Wladimir is more dominant. Lack of opposition, yes, I'll give you that. It still doesn't take away from the fact Wlad is SO MUCH BETTER than all the other heavyweights minus his brother, Vitali. Wladimir is the most technically superior heavyweight of all time. Every punch he throws is text-book. His jab is among the best of all time in ANY division. Wlad is so damn good, and so dominant that people in America want him to retire BECAUSE he's always in control. Go back and watch his fight with Mercer. Pay attention to what Ronnie Shields has to say about Wlad's punching power, speed, etc. Whether you like it or not, he will go down as an ATG and will most definitely be in the HOF.

That had more to do with pep being in that plain crash and most saying he wasn't the same afterwards, but thats another story for another day. Also when Vitali retires, he will be a HOF fighter. To say he won't is flat out ridiculous, especially considering lesser fighters have gotten in. Lastly, It isn't all about resume and it's not the only thing historians look at. How dominate and how you looked in the ring plays a huge roll as well, and due to the klits dominance they will both be rated very highly. There have been several fighters who have been in divisions that have been weak I've never seen anyone hold it against them. That was just one example...I can give more, Duran with the rest of the fab 4....Tyson-Douglas, Arguello-Marcel....Point is H2H determines nothing when it comes to greatness. And, of course dominance is something that rated highly...That goes under accomplishments...One of the things I mentioned...Resume and accomplishment is what determines ATG ranking not H2H match up does not. And, Wlad is the #1 guy in the division. Not Vitaly...Vitaly is not a HOF'er....There might be lesser fighters who are in. But, there are also superior fighters by a wide margin who are not in.

Oh FFS's. Not a diss but it's ridiculous. Saddler beat Pep 3 out of 4 times in a H2H match up. Whether it was because a style clash or he had Pep number or he was better than Pep whatever. He doesn't rank higher than Willie Pep. Because, his resume and accomplishment doesn't come close to Pep. Point is winning in a H2H match up doesn't really determine greatness. Is all about resume and accomplishment. OK, I hear you that is not Wlad nor Vitaly(BTW Vitaly is not even a HOF in my book, Wlad is for sure, and even might be top 15 ATG but Vitaly no way) fault that they don't have the competitions and they're "so much better" than everybody else. I get that. But, you know what too bad, so sad that just the way the cookie crumbles. Vitaly is so far behind is crazy. Wlad doesn't have the resume nor accomplishment to be rank in the top 10. He's still going strong though, so when it's all said and done who knows where he would be. But, as of right now. If he retired today. He will be in mine top 13-20 ATG HW...And, that's a compliment, not an insult in anyway towards him. That had more to do with pep being in that plain crash and most saying he wasn't the same afterwards, but thats another story for another day. Also when Vitali retires, he will be a HOF fighter. To say he won't is flat out ridiculous, especially considering lesser fighters have gotten in. Lastly, It isn't all about resume and it's not the only thing historians look at. How dominate and how you looked in the ring plays a huge roll as well, and due to the klits dominance they will both be rated very highly. There have been several fighters who have been in divisions that have been weak I've never seen anyone hold it against them.

I don't do atg rankings, something I mentioned in another thread. With that said, my reply stated "I can see how someone can rank them as two of the greatest HW's based off of ability" which is why I brought up the fact that most, if not all of those HW's (minus Ali and Lewis) would probably get dominated by both. It's not Wlad or Vitali's fault they are that much better than every other HW in their era and I think it's a b.s. excuse to use that as a reason to place them in outside the top 25 like a lot of posters are trying to do. Only in boxing would such bullsh1t (not a diss towards you but speaking in general) logic be used. Shaq dominated his era when almost all the ATG centers/big men were gone but people don't use that as an excuse to not rate him high. In other sports their are countless examples of this as well, but boxing has such pathetic fans that any excuse is used to discredit fighters. Oh FFS's. Not a diss but it's ridiculous. Saddler beat Pep 3 out of 4 times in a H2H match up. Whether it was because a style clash or he had Pep number or he was better than Pep whatever. He doesn't rank higher than Willie Pep. Because, his resume and accomplishment doesn't come close to Pep. Point is winning in a H2H match up doesn't really determine greatness. Is all about resume and accomplishment. OK, I hear you that is not Wlad nor Vitaly(BTW Vitaly is not even a HOF in my book, Wlad is for sure, and even might be top 15 ATG but Vitaly no way) fault that they don't have the competitions and they're "so much better" than everybody else. I get that. But, you know what too bad, so sad that just the way the cookie crumbles. Vitaly is so far behind is crazy. Wlad doesn't have the resume nor accomplishment to be rank in the top 10. He's still going strong though, so when it's all said and done who knows where he would be. But, as of right now. If he retired today. He will be in mine top 13-20 ATG HW...And, that's a compliment, not an insult in anyway towards him.

You have no proof either. no proof of what? that marciano's opposition was greater than vlad's? lol...i mean seriously thats pretty universally accepted. if u wanna state otherwise then u better be able to prove it outside of what u think might have happened.

Winning H2H fantasy match up...Has nothing to do with ATG rankings. ATG rankings is based on resume and accomplishment. And, his resume accomplishment doesn't hold candle to Louis, Holyfield, Marciano, or Johnson. It really is quite simple. I don't do atg rankings, something I mentioned in another thread. With that said, my reply stated "I can see how someone can rank them as two of the greatest HW's based off of ability" which is why I brought up the fact that most, if not all of those HW's (minus Ali and Lewis) would probably get dominated by both. It's not Wlad or Vitali's fault they are that much better than every other HW in their era and I think it's a b.s. excuse to use that as a reason to place them in outside the top 25 like a lot of posters are trying to do. Only in boxing would such bullsh1t (not a diss towards you but speaking in general) logic be used. Shaq dominated his era when almost all the ATG centers/big men were gone but people don't use that as an excuse to not rate him high. In other sports their are countless examples of this as well, but boxing has such pathetic fans that any excuse is used to discredit fighters.

The argument is that Wlads opponents are alot better than Marcianos. I'm not going to argue if they're better or not. But, again Marciano opponents are greater. Hence why he's resume is better than Wlad. Which would make Rocky a greater HW. Whether or not Wlad would beat Rocky in a H2H match up is irrelevant in ATG ranking discussion.

The argument is that Wlads opponents are alot better than Marcianos. and ur proof is based on what might have happened not what did. meaning u have no argument.

They would be too small for heavyweight. Marco Huck would beat them all. thats your argument??? what would have happened? because u definitely know that rite? what would have happened determines nothing when talking atg status. this isnt p4p.

Those guys arent proper heavyweights. They would be cruiserweights or light heavyweights in todays era. ur point being???imo that makes them greater. lesser weight classes better competition.

Those guys arent heavyweights. P4P they could be better but that doesnt win fights in the heavyweight division. what are u talking about??? ur not making any sense....

Marciano are you having a laugh? He wouldn't cut it in todays crusierweight division. Marciano never beat anyone as good as Chagaev or Ibragimov. Charles, Moore and Walcott? Hell Roland LaStarza was on the same level as Chagaev and Ibragimov.

And if you look at that list, those guys would stand little to no chance against the Klits due to their combination of size and skills. Dempsey, Louis, Holyfield, Tyson, Frazier, Marciano, Johnson, Charles are just too small and would get demolished by both Klits. Winning H2H fantasy match up...Has nothing to do with ATG rankings. ATG rankings is based on resume and accomplishment. And, his resume accomplishment doesn't hold candle to Louis, Holyfield, Marciano, or Johnson. It really is quite simple.

75% of those dudes arent real HW's and would get spanked by Wlad. If those dudes fought today they would be SUPER MW/Light Heavy / CW. Top 5 in random order Lewis Tyson Wlad Vitali Ali And if you look at that list, those guys would stand little to no chance against the Klits due to their combination of size and skills. Dempsey, Louis, Holyfield, Tyson, Frazier, Marciano, Johnson, Charles are just too small and would get demolished by both Klits.

He may not have very much in his arsenal, but he's amazing at what he does. He's certainly one of the greatest. Top 5? Hell no. Top 10? Probably not. Lewis barely makes the top 10. Top 15? Possibly. And today that's a very big accomplishment. To be honest, both Klits can only control whats in front of them. They have dominated their era and I really can't see what more they could have done. It was just bad timing because right when they started to climbs the ranks and create a buzz, alot of the good HW's of this era were on decline (Tua, Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield etc). IMO Lewis and both klits pretty much destroy any of the top ATG HW's not named Ali. So I can see someones arguement for them being the greatest of alltime based on ability because I find it hard to pick any of the great HW's over them.

There's a difference between not having something and simply not showing it.Contrary to popular belief,Wlad does have a good punch variety.We haven't seen this over the last couple of years because of a dramatic change in style and tactics employed by Wlad,but he does have a very good offense.The guy used to triple up on his left hooks,for f^ck sake. For anyone who thinks he's just some slow,stiff,robotic boxer,go watch his fight against Ray Mercer and the offensive clinic he put on that night.He doesn't fight like that anymore because he's older and has found that he is simply a more effective and dominant fighter through limiting his offense and using his height and reach to full effect.