Does anyone actually RATE Wlad for that win??

I think Vladimir Klitchko was exposed as someone whose punches are off target against a guy with head movement and defense. I can't praise Haye for that performance, but Haye showed that Vlad's hand speed wouldn't trouble anybody who was close to his size whether if it was Foreman, Holmes, or Ali. And I think Tyson and Frazier would get inside on him and bomb him out. I too believe if Haye had the will (killer instinct) of Tyson to close the distance more and explode with combos on the inside, he may have been successful at nullifying Wlad's jab/right cross. Fight may have been turned out differently. Wlad was able to keep Haye at a distance with his shots and great footwork.

playing devils advocate here... but couldnt u argue that by jabbing with only the occassional right, backing away from ANY exchange, and doing his usual smothering on the inside Wlad did as much as Haye to ruin that fight?? I thought that Wlad could have finished that fight from Round 8 onwards if he just bit down on his gumshield a bit... Wlad didnt exactly do much to make it a decent win even IF David was spoiling.... he didnt do it anywhere near enuff but at least Haye went for it occassionally. The onus was on Haye, seeing as he was the one behind on the scorecards. OK, it's not the most satisfying way to win a fight, but if it wins you the fight, it wins you the fight. And it did -- comfortably. I thought Pacquiao mainly looked like that because he doesnt know how to cut the ring off. But with Wlad, heck even Steward gets annoyed with him hes a 6-6, 250 pound fighter, with KO power in both hands and he fights like a fairy. I cant stand it. Ive always thought that about Wlad hes the best heavy, hands down no question but hes still levels below other Kingpins like Ali, Louis, Tyson in the talent department. People get on Hayes case but as the smaller guy he had to fight that way. I was more disgusted with Wlads performance he had a guy throwing wild, telegraphed Hayemakers and he was too afraid to even shoot a counter. I just dont see it with Wlad. He has a good jab, hes a hard hitter hes good at controlling distance but other than that he doesnt really impress me. Haye clearly shouldn't have fought that way, as evidenced by the result. I don't think he should be given an excuse for spoiling just because he's the smaller man -- why even fight in the first place if you're not going to try to win? I don't dispute that Ali, Louis and Tyson were better fighters, btw. Wlad has his strengths and weaknesses, but clearly his strengths outweigh the vulnerabilities. Maybe he wouldn't get away with it in a better era, but conjecture has to take a backseat to facts in these discussions; and the fact is, Wlad is the best of this era by a mile. Haye looked like Willie Pep against Wlad. Except Willie Pep actually used his elusiveness to win fights.

I think Vladimir Klitchko was exposed as someone whose punches are off target against a guy with head movement and defense. I can't praise Haye for that performance, but Haye showed that Vlad's hand speed wouldn't trouble anybody who was close to his size whether if it was Foreman, Holmes, or Ali. And I think Tyson and Frazier would get inside on him and bomb him out. No doubt. Haye also had some luck with the jab when he threw it. An Ali, with his head movement, would make Wlad look like Ernie Terrell. BUT... one can be a great Heavy in their own right and still be less than the best that ever did it. No shame in that.

Good points Iceta. People who say Wlads even stand a chance against Tyson, Frazier Larry, Foreman or Ali cant even be taken seriously. Haye looked like Willie Pep against Wlad.

I think Vladimir Klitchko was exposed as someone whose punches are off target against a guy with head movement and defense. I can't praise Haye for that performance, but Haye showed that Vlad's hand speed wouldn't trouble anybody who was close to his size whether if it was Foreman, Holmes, or Ali. And I think Tyson and Frazier would get inside on him and bomb him out.

Size isn't the factor people make it out to be, especially at Heavy. Lots of dudes Haye's size, and Haye, have beaten so-called Super heavyweights historically and in this era. In In recent vintage, Byrd and Chambers have wins over guys like McCline, Dimitrenko, Peter etc. Adamek beat Grant (who is still dangerous to a guy who isn't a bona fide puncher). The Klits win because they are BETTER than their foes. Haye did some things right last night, landed some decent single shots, but in the end he didn't have the guts to go for victory and Wlad did what winners do. He won. I didn't think he would last night but he did his job, fought his fight, and that's that. That win may not go down as defining; Wlad may never have one of those. He will be defined by the sum of his career and the run he's on is going to walk him easy into Canastota. I don't know where he rates with the best Heavies ever, but there will never be a discussion of great heavies without him at this point. Hes a hall of famer by default, Hes the least smelly shyt out of the shyt called the Heavyweight division.

Size isn't the factor people make it out to be, especially at Heavy. Lots of dudes Haye's size, and Haye, have beaten so-called Super heavyweights historically and in this era. In In recent vintage, Byrd and Chambers have wins over guys like McCline, Dimitrenko, Peter etc. Adamek beat Grant (who is still dangerous to a guy who isn't a bona fide puncher). The Klits win because they are BETTER than their foes. Haye did some things right last night, landed some decent single shots, but in the end he didn't have the guts to go for victory and Wlad did what winners do. He won. I didn't think he would last night but he did his job, fought his fight, and that's that. That win may not go down as defining; Wlad may never have one of those. He will be defined by the sum of his career and the run he's on is going to walk him easy into Canastota. I don't know where he rates with the best Heavies ever, but there will never be a discussion of great heavies without him at this point. Hes a hall of famer by default, Hes the least smelly shyt out f the shy called the Hevayweight division.

Even someone as talented as Pacquiao can look lackluster against an ultra-negative opponent, see the recent Mosley fight. The only reason Haye was able to frustrate Wlad was because he almost entirely sacrificed his offense, and his only chance to actually win. To call such a dominant fighter "marginally talented" on the basis of a fight like last night's is vastly unfair. I thought Pacquiao mainly looked like that because he doesnt know how to cut the ring off. But with Wlad, heck even Steward gets annoyed with him hes a 6-6, 250 pound fighter, with KO power in both hands and he fights like a fairy. I cant stand it. Ive always thought that about Wlad hes the best heavy, hands down no question but hes still levels below other Kingpins like Ali, Louis, Tyson in the talent department. People get on Hayes case but as the smaller guy he had to fight that way. I was more disgusted with Wlads performance he had a guy throwing wild, telegraphed Hayemakers and he was too afraid to even shoot a counter. I just dont see it with Wlad. He has a good jab, hes a hard hitter hes good at controlling distance but other than that he doesnt really impress me.

It's hard to look good against an opponent who's there to spoil and nothing else. I give him due credit for proving decisively that he's the far better boxer than Haye. playing devils advocate here... but couldnt u argue that by jabbing with only the occassional right, backing away from ANY exchange, and doing his usual smothering on the inside Wlad did as much as Haye to ruin that fight?? I thought that Wlad could have finished that fight from Round 8 onwards if he just bit down on his gumshield a bit... Wlad didnt exactly do much to make it a decent win even IF David was spoiling.... he didnt do it anywhere near enuff but at least Haye went for it occassionally.

Size isn't the factor people make it out to be, especially at Heavy. Lots of dudes Haye's size, and Haye, have beaten so-called Super heavyweights historically and in this era. In In recent vintage, Byrd and Chambers have wins over guys like McCline, Dimitrenko, Peter etc. Adamek beat Grant (who is still dangerous to a guy who isn't a bona fide puncher). The Klits win because they are BETTER than their foes. Haye did some things right last night, landed some decent single shots, but in the end he didn't have the guts to go for victory and Wlad did what winners do. He won. I didn't think he would last night but he did his job, fought his fight, and that's that. That win may not go down as defining; Wlad may never have one of those. He will be defined by the sum of his career and the run he's on is going to walk him easy into Canastota. Pretty much.

Wlad showed he is what he is. A solid heavyweight with marginal talent. Hes a very limited fighter. Haye made him look like shyt imo even Wlad wasnt impressed with his own performance. He beat the best guy available but he looked awful doing so. That win did nothing for his legacy its pretty much the same as it was before. He shouldnt be mentioned in the ranks with the great ones like Ali, Louis, Frazier, Holmes,Tyson, Evander, Dempsey etc Even someone as talented as Pacquiao can look lackluster against an ultra-negative opponent, see the recent Mosley fight. The only reason Haye was able to frustrate Wlad was because he almost entirely sacrificed his offense, and his only chance to actually win. To call such a dominant fighter "marginally talented" on the basis of a fight like last night's is wildly unfair.

Ok he won fair and square no doubt but does he really deserve any significant praise for the win?? He was made to miss a hell of a lot He once again jab jab jabbed his way to a win He could really hurt Haye He never engaged He backed off from every attack and never tried to counter despite Haye telegraphing He was 30lbs heavier and 4 inches taller yet used more of the ring than David did He never even tried to finish David, even in the last round He looked more damamged than David by the end of the fight I really thought Wlad was gonna teach Haye a real lesson, even Manny was worried... from round 8 onwards I think he could put Haye away but he was too scared to even try. It was a win. But was it really a great one??? Size isn't the factor people make it out to be, especially at Heavy. Lots of dudes Haye's size, and Haye, have beaten so-called Super heavyweights historically and in this era. In In recent vintage, Byrd and Chambers have wins over guys like McCline, Dimitrenko, Peter etc. Adamek beat Grant (who is still dangerous to a guy who isn't a bona fide puncher). The Klits win because they are BETTER than their foes. Haye did some things right last night, landed some decent single shots, but in the end he didn't have the guts to go for victory and Wlad did what winners do. He won. I didn't think he would last night but he did his job, fought his fight, and that's that. That win may not go down as defining; Wlad may never have one of those. He will be defined by the sum of his career and the run he's on is going to walk him easy into Canastota. I don't know where he rates with the best Heavies ever, but there will never be a discussion of great heavies without him at this point.

He performed at his best and impressed me with his solid 1-2 which he timed perfectly against a speedy fighter. Gotta give him credit for keepin' it real in there. Haye was a live opponent who caught him with a few solid shots of his own despite the size difference. Haye has good speed and a good defense. If there is ever a rematch, Haye must tweak his strategy next time in order to beat Wlad. That's if he learned anything.

Wlad showed he is what he is. A solid heavyweight with marginal talent. Hes a very limited fighter. Haye made him look like shyt imo even Wlad wasnt impressed with his own performance. He beat the best guy available but he looked awful doing so. That win did nothing for his legacy its pretty much the same as it was before. He shouldnt be mentioned in the ranks with the great ones like Ali, Louis, Frazier, Holmes,Tyson, Evander, Dempsey etc

I think Wlad before that fight was a HOF'er. I think, if he would of lost to Haye. Then he probably wouldn't have been a HOF'er. Since people would have said the only reason he dominated was because it was a weak HW era. But, him dominating Haye like that IMO certifies him without anyone as being a HOF'er. Personally I think he might end up being a top 15 ATG HW.

It's hard to look good against an opponent who's there to spoil and nothing else. I give him due credit for proving decisively that he's the far better boxer than Haye.