What is Vitali on about?

Foreman Liston Tyson Lewis Louis Shavers Marciano Dempsey Fraizer Tua Lyle All bigger hitters than Wlad. In all fairness, gauging punching power isn't quite so simple. Lewis is comparable in size to Wlad, so he should be tossed out of this list. Tua, although only 5'10", has fought at weights north of 250 lbs. Frazier had truly great power only in his left hook. As ferocious a puncher as Dempsey was, I doubt he could equal the power a monster like Wlad possesses. The same probably goes for Marciano. Then there's the younger Klitschko's KO percentage. It's the most objective measure we have. What all-time great heavyweight comes close (84.5%)?

I have to say that I disagree, I actually believe that Wlad is top 5 HW puncher of all time. About chin, stamina, workrate, skills, well that doesn't depends only on being heavier, but rather than people is just different. Some guys have great chins, some don't. But, when it comes to chin, being heavier is in fact an advantage, especially when we're talking about heavier strong guys, not heavier fat boxers. Wlad doesn't has the best chin, but he is very heavy and strong and that helps him to receive power shots. Haye also doesn't has a good chin, and for a 213 man to take a 243 guy power punch, well it's just really hard, since that 243 guy is really a heavy hitter. Foreman Liston Tyson Lewis Louis Shavers Marciano Dempsey Fraizer Tua Lyle All bigger hitters than Wlad.

I have to say that I disagree, I actually believe that Wlad is top 5 HW puncher of all time. A case can be made....

Is Wlad a bigger puncher than heavies of the past that weighed under 220lbs? No, many of them were bigger punches. Has he a better chin than those past heavies? No, many of them had granite chins. Does he have better stamina and workrate? No, many of them showed far more endurance and fought for 15 round or more. Is Wlad more skilfull than those great heavies. No, what he does he does well, but lacks many of the skills of the past greats. Wlad is probably a bigger puncher than most heavyweight ATGs.

Is Wlad a bigger puncher than heavies of the past that weighed under 220lbs? No, many of them were bigger punches. Has he a better chin than those past heavies? No, many of them had granite chins. Does he have better stamina and workrate? No, many of them showed far more endurance and fought for 15 round or more. Is Wlad more skilfull than those great heavies. No, what he does he does well, but lacks many of the skills of the past greats. I have to say that I disagree, I actually believe that Wlad is top 5 HW puncher of all time. About chin, stamina, workrate, skills, well that doesn't depends only on being heavier, but rather than people is just different. Some guys have great chins, some don't. But, when it comes to chin, being heavier is in fact an advantage, especially when we're talking about heavier strong guys, not heavier fat boxers. Wlad doesn't has the best chin, but he is very heavy and strong and that helps him to receive power shots. Haye also doesn't has a good chin, and for a 213 man to take a 243 guy power punch, well it's just really hard, since that 243 guy is really a heavy hitter.

Once you get over 15 stone the extra weight makes less of a difference in the power stakes and an increasing difference in speed. The great heavyweights were around Haye's weight. Haye has also come in this light for a reason. He is going for movement and speed, make Wlad miss and counter. Haye will not stand infront of Wlad so he can land the jab and the straight right. He is going to constantly move, keeping Wlad of balance.

We live in another age now. Today 213 is verry light for a heavyweight today. You have to be verry good, Haye is good but is he good enough? it takes a verry good 213 pound man to beat a good 242 pound man. Is Wlad a bigger puncher than heavies of the past that weighed under 220lbs? No, many of them were bigger punches. Has he a better chin than those past heavies? No, many of them had granite chins. Does he have better stamina and workrate? No, many of them showed far more endurance and fought for 15 round or more. Is Wlad more skilfull than those great heavies. No, what he does he does well, but lacks many of the skills of the past greats.

Excellent post. The only problem I have is with identifying 1990, necessarily, as the dividing line. This is essentially the argument that must be used when doing fantasy match-ups with the greats of the past and the current champs. The old-timers would have access to modern training and nutritional techniques. To make an example: Jack Dempsey, a man way too small by today's heavyweight standards, would've been a terror if he was born in the modern era. He was a savage fighter. Men like that aren't made, they're born. Yeah, I don't think there is necessarily a dividing line, since science is always evolving, I just said 1990 because I was answering to D4thincarnation who said that before 1990 there were guys bigger than 240lbs

And before 1990 it was also harder to mantain a lot of muscle mass like Wlad and Vitali have. You also need to remember that sports medicine and training methods have improved a lot in the past years, you just need to look at olympic records, most of them have been broken because of all the science and technology that has been invested in sports. Before, it was almost impossible to be 245 pounds of mainly muscle mass, most guys were 245 but that they had a lot more fat than today. Wladimir has a lean 245 body. Do you really know how much protein this guy must take? Before, a guy needed to get protein from food, so he had to eat a lot to get the necessary amount of protein to mantain muscle mass. Since that food also had fat and carbs, he would also get a not so lean body. Now Wlad can eat a lot of low fat food, and still get massive amounts of protein by using protein powder. These are different times. Excellent post. The only problem I have is with identifying 1990, necessarily, as the dividing line. This is essentially the argument that must be used when doing fantasy match-ups with the greats of the past and the current champs. The old-timers would have access to modern training and nutritional techniques. To make an example: Jack Dempsey, a man way too small by today's heavyweight standards, would've been a terror if he was born in the modern era. He was a savage fighter. Men like that aren't made, they're born.

vitali is an idiot. if anything,they are not heavies the k bros,they are SUPER heavyweights. Haye is a prime proper weight heavyweight. Haye has a lot lot more strength in him than the klitschko think he has. he has the stamina,the gameplan,the focus the determination. He will hit much harder than wlad will expect. yes,wlad is fast and moves well,for his size,but haye wins in the speed area.He will close the distance and move so much free-er and quicker than anyone wlad has faced. Haye can have the timing to counter clinces/leanings. he can fight out of them,and bully wlad a bit even. He will swinggg big hayemakers while wlad holds his neck in clinches.

Slightly hyperbolic...slightly. Hahaha yes, slightly Bro, slightly!! :lol1:

Wlad is a super heavy weight.

Both you are the OP are retarded. Haye is too small, deal with it. You should have just put the Valuev Fight up there for arguement, but you didn't. Instead, you put up incredibly skewed logic. You're talking about an old heavyweight division that would be a cruiserweight division today. How does two 210lbs fighters fighting each other, and 1 winning, have anything to do with a 210 fighter fighting a 240lbs fighter of equal ability. It's not the same. This. Wlad will beat Haye, not because of his superior size, but because of his superior ability. I'll add that there are several old-time heavies (or "heavies," as you might call them) who had greater ability than either Klitschko, and might therefore be able to beat them.

Tyson 86-89 incinerates both Wlad and Vitali on the same afternoon. Slightly hyperbolic...slightly.

People do realise there were guy bigger than 240lbs prior to 1990 that fought at heavyweight. Size may bring you strength but at a cost to speed, but both of those play second fiddle to skill. For Vitali just to base this fight on Haye's lack of size is IMO stupid. And before 1990 it was also harder to mantain a lot of muscle mass like Wlad and Vitali have. You also need to remember that sports medicine and training methods have improved a lot in the past years, you just need to look at olympic records, most of them have been broken because of all the science and technology that has been invested in sports. Before, it was almost impossible to be 245 pounds of mainly muscle mass, most guys were 245 but that they had a lot more fat than today. Wladimir has a lean 245 body. Do you really know how much protein this guy must take? Before, a guy needed to get protein from food, so he had to eat a lot to get the necessary amount of protein to mantain muscle mass. Since that food also had fat and carbs, he would also get a not so lean body. Now Wlad can eat a lot of low fat food, and still get massive amounts of protein by using protein powder. These are different times.

Prime Tyson would smash Wlad to bits. I think he'd have a tough time against prime Vitali before he retired four times to avoid fighting Hassim Rahman, as Vitali isn't as likely to collapse under pressure. But Tyson would scare the shit out of Wlad. Couldn't agree more. I intentionally measured my words. Wlad would be done before the opening bell rang. Vitali might withstand the intimidation and physical onslaught long enough to win, but I would still pick prime Tyson in that match-up.

vitlai says haye not a real heavyheight so hes talking sh1t the poster above showed you loads of great champs who were simaler weight not to mention the real deal,hope haye does it just to shut the klits fans faces Both you are the OP are retarded. Haye is too small, deal with it. You should have just put the Valuev Fight up there for arguement, but you didn't. Instead, you put up incredibly skewed logic. You're talking about an old heavyweight division that would be a cruiserweight division today. How does two 210lbs fighters fighting each other, and 1 winning, have anything to do with a 210 fighter fighting a 240lbs fighter of equal ability. It's not the same.

People do realise there were guy bigger than 240lbs prior to 1990 that fought at heavyweight. Size may bring you strength but at a cost to speed, but both of those play second fiddle to skill. For Vitali just to base this fight on Haye's lack of size is IMO stupid.

Wow. You have just taken a dump on the entire history of the heavyweight division. The real difference between the old school heavies you mention and David Haye obviously isn't size. It's the fact that the stated old-timers are all ATGs. Would any of them have a good chance at beating Wlad? There would be dozens of knowledgeable posters on this forum that would say yes. Ali, Liston and Holmes are three. Tyson, whom you didn't mention, might also beat either Klitschko. Size is one advantage out of many; it's far from decisive. Otherwise, guys like Willard and Carnera would've been dominant. Is the new better than the old? Sometimes. But, in order to understand the present, you must appreciate the past. Prime Tyson would smash Wlad to bits. I think he'd have a tough time against prime Vitali before he retired four times to avoid fighting Hassim Rahman, as Vitali isn't as likely to collapse under pressure. But Tyson would scare the shit out of Wlad. Tyson 86-89 incinerates both Wlad and Vitali on the same afternoon.

Haye himself has overcome a massive weight difference through defeating Valuev to win the World title. If he can really rock someone of that size, in the last round and with a punch that didn't totally connect, he has the ability to lay Wlad face down on the canvas.