Andre Ward is top 10 P4P... But not Bute or Froch?

Abraham won 3 of the first 4 with ward, possibly even all of the first four. Was shut out entirely against Froch. I like Froch's win more, but that's beside the point. You're in a tiny minority. Almost everyone scored it 118-110 to Ward. I believe Froch has done more in his weight to be ahead of Ward You're entitled to you opinion, and I could respect your opinion if you removed the certainty with which you stated it. It is not clear cut at all - just as good a case can be made for Ward being ahead of Froch, and most people do have him narrowly ahead. I don't have a problem with you ranking Froch higher, just with your pretence that it's cut and dried (and the implication that anyone who disagrees, including The Ring, must therefore be either ignorant or stupid).

Bute isn't top 20 p4p. Froch should be in there though, maybe even ahead of Ward. I can agree with that. Froch has fought better comp and even though he lost to Kessler by razor thin decision, he rebounded with two good wins over Johnson and Abraham. Froch has one of the best resumes in boxing and has only lost once.

Froch might slot into the lower half of the top ten P4P, but Ward is the man at 168lbs as far as I'm concerned. Since his coming out party against Kessler he has been totally dominant. Froch has everyone's admiration for his warrior ethos but he has struggled a bit at times, most notably in that losing effort against the same Kessler who was soundly beaten by Ward. Bute has done fuck-all to be in the picture for the #1 SMW position, or a top 10 pound-for-pounder.

It's not that clear cut at all. Froch lost (albeit narrowly) to Kessler, who lost every round to Ward. Froch was also very lucky to get the win over Dirrell, who most observers felt deserved to get the nod over him. Froch has only dominated one opponent in the last two years - Abraham - whereas Ward has dominated everyone he has faced, including Abraham. Froch has a better resume than Ward in terms of opposition faced, especially if you take the pre-Super 6 fights into account; but in terms of their common opponents and overall quality of wins, Ward wins hands down. It's hard to see how Froch can be considered anything other than the major underdog when they fight each other, although he's certainly a live underdog with a genuine outside chance of getting an upset. But if Froch wins, it will be considered by most to be an upset. Abraham won 3 of the first 4 with ward, possibly even all of the first four. Was shut out entirely against Froch. I like Froch's win more, but that's beside the point. Pascal, Taylor, Abraham, Johnson, Dirrell (i thought dirrell won) vs Kessler, Green, Abraham, Bika. I think Froch takes the cake there. I feel like having 2 guys in the same weight class in the p4p list just complicates things. Thats probably why my personal top 10 p4p looks the wya it does. Currently it is Top 5 Pacquiao Martinez Donaire Marquez Wladimimr Bottom 5 Hopkins Froch Agbeko Khan Gamboa/Wonjongkam either or, I don't mind. Probably Wonjongkam. I believe Froch has done more in his weight to be ahead of Ward and Agbeko more at hsi weight to be ahead of everyone else. I do believe, if they fought, he'd best Donaire. But that's just personal bias. I'm expecting him to beat Mares and claim his position and hopefully a shot at Nonito, granted Showtime and HBO dont complicate things. I have Khan over BRadley for obvious reasions. I think the win over Kotelnik is bigger than every win on bradleys resume, so wen't get into the Malignaggi, Mcloskey, Salita and Maidana fights. Bradleys best win is Alexander who lost handily to Kotelnik, I'm sure you agree too.

Behind? It doesnt matter what you think of the fighters, better or worse.. the fact remains froch has done more at the weight, won bigger fights and should be rated higher. Until they fight, Froch is better than Ward. It's not that clear cut at all. Froch lost (albeit narrowly) to Kessler, who lost every round to Ward. Froch was also very lucky to get the win over Dirrell, who most observers felt deserved to get the nod over him. Froch has only dominated one opponent in the last two years - Abraham - whereas Ward has dominated everyone he has faced, including Abraham. Froch has a better resume than Ward in terms of opposition faced, especially if you take the pre-Super 6 fights into account; but in terms of their common opponents and overall quality of wins, Ward wins hands down. It's hard to see how Froch can be considered anything other than the major underdog when they fight each other, although he's certainly a live underdog with a genuine outside chance of getting an upset. But if Froch wins, it will be considered by most to be an upset.

Because Bute hasnt fought anyone. I agree Froch should be in somewhere behind Ward. Behind? It doesnt matter what you think of the fighters, better or worse.. the fact remains froch has done more at the weight, won bigger fights and should be rated higher. Until they fight, Froch is better than Ward.

Not that I thought he was a p4p fighter. Its just that conventional wisdom has the S6 winner facing him which I feel is rediculous. Its almost like hes getting a free pass to fight Ward or Froch without going through the guantlet that was the tourney. He was basiclly slotted in the 2 spot halfway through group stage 2, by beating Librado and Miranda. That was because he was excluded from the competition despite the fact he was the concensus #2 at the time. That was not his fault, and in those circumstances, as long as he keeps winning, it is right that he should get first crack at the tournament winner. Bottom line, it was wrong of Showtime to exclude him from the tournament.

Bute hasn't fought a world class fighter IMO (although Andrade is close but on the fringes) Bute has fought Miranda and Andrade and personally I don't believe he'd fought anyone else of Merit though they way he wins is impressive so I don't think he's P4P top 10 off resume (maybe off talent?) Froch probably deserves to be in the top 10 and most likely would be if he hadn't lost to Kessler. Froch has beat Pascal, Dirrell, Taylor and Johnson and deserves a top 10 ranking IMO.

Ward will whoop Froch and Bute!!!:spankme:

Not that I thought he was a p4p fighter. Its just that conventional wisdom has the S6 winner facing him which I feel is rediculous. Its almost like hes getting a free pass to fight Ward or Froch without going through the guantlet that was the tourney. He was basiclly slotted in the 2 spot halfway through group stage 2, by beating Librado and Miranda.

Bute should be nowhere near the top 10 p4p, he's more like 50th lol

Ward easily defeated Kessler, destroyed Green, defeated Bika whom would've been competitive with any of the other Super Six, and defeat Abraham easily. Froch imo lost to Dirrell, officially lost to Kessler, destroyed Abraham and won against Johnson in a competitive fight. Based on who looked more dominant. Ward. Ward is the man at Super Middleweight right now. Bute hasn't done jack, plus i think he's very overrated. I feel Kessler, Froch, Dirrell and Ward could beat him w/o much difficulty.

I agree Froch should be in there, and arguably ahead of Ward. Bute though? No way.

I have to admit. Ward puts on a very slow fight. Now Lucian Bute and Mikkel Kessler are my favorite Super Middleweights. I know Kessler lost to Ward so that puts him top 17-20 in my eyes. But Lucian Bute? He has held his belt for Years fought well and entertaining fights and wins by KO a lot. Also, Carl Froch is a great fighter too. Equal To Ward in my eyes.. Bute Vs. Ward? Froch Vs Ward? Kessler Vs. Johnson? ??? WTF does that have to do with being P4P, Bute is not P4P because HE DOESN'T FIGHT ANYBODY! Compared to Ward who has been BREEZING threw this Super 6 Tournament...none of Wards fights have been Close in this entire Tournament which is pretty impressive considering the fact that not many people picked him before this Tournament Started and of course if Froch beats Ward then of course he will likely replace him on that P4P List...Froch probably would be higher then Ward on the P4P list if Froch didn't LOSE to Kessler

Bute's greatest wins are against the likes of Miranda and Andrade. Froch will go high in the p4p if he beats Ward. He isn't up there because he loss to Kessler. Ward is there because he is undefeated and has fought the best just like Froch has.

Its pretty stupid that my man Froch isn't in the top 10 PfP.... It's not stupid at all. Given that Ward is ranked #9, the highest place that Froch could seriously be expected to take is #10, which is currently held by Hopkins. All you're saying is that you think Froch is more deserving than Hopkins. That's a matter of opinion, and a lot of people would say that Hopkins is more deserving.

I think Bute is way overrated.(Miranda & Andrade wins dont make you lb 4 lb) Froch and Ward are P4P worthy and should be ranked higher. I think Kessler, Direll, Abraham , and Johnson are on Butes level. Honestly, I wouldnt be mad at a Bute/Taylor fight. But is not in the P4P list - where did you get the idea that he is?

I think Bute is way overrated.(Miranda & Andrade wins dont make you lb 4 lb) Froch and Ward are P4P worthy and should be ranked higher. I think Kessler, Direll, Abraham , and Johnson are on Butes level. Honestly, I wouldnt be mad at a Bute/Taylor fight.

Its pretty stupid that my man Froch isn't in the top 10 PfP....

Froch vs Hopkins is very easy to predict - Hopkins by wide UD. And you're right this will all be resolved soon after Ward beats Froch so it's really a moot point anyway. All fights are easy to predict if you're opinionated enough. They're much more difficult to predict accurately. Froch beat Pascal by a fairly wide decision and has greatly improved since then. And in terms of resume over the past two years, Froch's resume walks all over Hopkins' resume. And the P4P lists are based as much on resume as they are on anything else.