Pacquiao's last three opponent have won a combined 1 fight in the last 2 1/2 years!

Since you are talking about a time frame of 2 1/2 years, why not include all of Pac's opponents. Besides I was a huge Pacquiao fan 2 1/2 years ago until he decided he was to big to actually challenge himself.

Clottey is the most credible win since Cotto, perhaps even more so than Cotto, given that he probably beat him in their fight (i thought he did). Clottey would beat most of the top guys at 147, and him vs Ortiz is probably a 50-50 fight, though i favour Ortiz since Manny showed us the blueprint on how to overwhelm Clottey....no reason Ortiz who was throwing 50-70 punches a rd against Berto couldn't beat Clottey who is flat footed compared to Vic who bounces around and in and out. However we shouldn't overlook the fact that stylistically MP and a guy like Paul Williams are Clottey kryptonite, and it was a very favourable matchup of styles, much moreso than Cotto and Hatton. Whilst Ortiz vs Clottey would be interesting a guy like Vic gives Manny way more problems that a guy like Clottey. Ultimately styles make fights. Manny's last 3 fights leave alot to be desired.

Since you are talking about a time frame of 2 1/2 years, why not include all of Pac's opponents. I stand by my thread. No since Roy Jones have we seen a P4P champ take such a easy road while price gauging his fans.

Since you are talking about a time frame of 2 1/2 years, why not include all of Pac's opponents. Because 2 and a half years is a long enough time to talk about Pac's recent history. Should Pac get a pass on his soft touches because he used to challenge himself?

Clottey hasn't won a fight since 2008, Mosley hasn't won a fight since 2009 and Margarito had one win in 2010 and that was against a Journeymen. His last legit win came in 2008 against Cotto. I just thought that was a interesting stat. Since you are talking about a time frame of 2 1/2 years, why not include all of Pac's opponents.

Did you feel he was protecting his "0" in his last fight? And actually Ali did shy away from certain fights. He wanted nothing to do with a Foreman rematch. He wanted nothing to do with Kent Green and he wanted nothing to do with Eddie Machen. Protecting against Mosley? Do you want me to bring up the link where Floyd states, "my game plan will take into consideration that I'm fighting an OLD Mosley". Now add that this ~39 year old was inactive for 16 months and that old body went thru 2 straight training camps, I think Floyd knew the advantages he had would have been enough to not worry as much as if he was facing a prime, active, young Mosley. You are also wrong about the Foreman rematch. He would have given it to him early on but Foreman took some time off after his loss. Ali even said he would have re-matched him then. Think about it. If Ali had trilogies with Norton and Frazier who gave him way more problems then why not against the easier win, Foreman. Ali had Foreman's number in his back pocket. and are you sure that he wanted nothing to do with the other 2 guys? I'm sure he would have won against them but Eddie fight would have been tougher if it was early on in his career. Green, you are just going by the amateurs, I presume?

Come on guys, Cotto, Clottey, Mosley and Margarito, ALL FOUGHT EACH OTHER IN THOSE 3 YEARS, they went round robin in terms of winnings and losses, so it's understandable how their records went, each have winnings and losses among each other. They were fighting at the top level just like when Leonard, Duran, Hearns and Hagler went round robin with theirs.. If each of them went the same route as Berto did, fighting bums, each would have a perfect score.. Manny fought them all, it's impossible and suicsiedle to fight them all in 1 year, Manny may have timed it best but fighting the big four in 2years ain't BAD!!!! And yet if Pac did not fought them, flomos would be saying for generation until they die Pac was a coward for ducking them. At least now we can say...."Pac fought all those fighters Floyd ducked like a plague or Pac retired/sent to rehab all those fighters Floyd fought."

Pacman is a cash machine for Arum Pacman & Floyd these 2 fight for $$ and that's it. and they get it....... do they ever get it. Pacman is a cash machine for Arum put him in harms way not yet Floyd has lovers and haters that will pay to see him. sad but true this is where boxing is

Me saying Martinez is number 1 is in DIRECT response to the title of the thread. I had him at Number 1 on my list and people whined about it. Facts are Pac has spent the last few years stalling and beating overmatched, shot or fighters that have both elements. So TS asked who was #1 P4P? Was that the direct question that you responded to? Or was it about people whining about Martinez not being P4P #1? If someone responded positively or negatively about your comment about Martinez being P4P #1 .... then you 2 would be hijacking the thread. Just saying.... but I was not the one who started this type of criticism nor would I have brought it up except I saw that some sensitive Floyd fans did. As for myself, if you look at who has commented against Manny, its the usual suspects. Meaning quite a few of them are Floyd fans who just love to criticize Manny.

Still, that is why Floyd gets criticized. While I may be wrong, it appears that he is doing whatever possible to protect his "0" Ali had trilogies against his toughest opponents. He never shied away from a fight ..... and those are fights that became classics. Debating about a Manny fight is OK. Like I said, I wasn't crazy about some of those fight selections that he made recently either ... but people need not skew the facts just to make it look worse than it really is. Did you feel he was protecting his "0" in his last fight? And actually Ali did shy away from certain fights. He wanted nothing to do with a Foreman rematch. He wanted nothing to do with Kent Green and he wanted nothing to do with Eddie Machen.

Because Floyd spent his whole life in the sport and done a great deal, it is in his right to feel he is the best (Manny himself has the same right) because he put in a ton of work like it or not. You don't have to agree but he isn't out there for thinking like that especially while he is active because boxing is very confidence driven. That is part of the whole point with the guys not fighting a lot they were not into the game, some like Clottey are naturally disposed to fight that way while other were broken men. Manny is a great fighter there is not denying that, but that also doesn't mean he is perfect or that things about his career can't be debated particularly because people do big up these wins but there is another side to the coin on them. Still even with certain questions that doesn't mean Manny isn't great it would be a matter of how great. Still, that is why Floyd gets criticized. While I may be wrong, it appears that he is doing whatever possible to protect his "0" Ali had trilogies against his toughest opponents. He never shied away from a fight ..... and those are fights that became classics. Debating about a Manny fight is OK. Like I said, I wasn't crazy about some of those fight selections that he made recently either ... but people need not skew the facts just to make it look worse than it really is.

he didnt fight them then did he?? fought margo at the end of 2010 after his suspension fought mosley in 2011 after floyd domianted him and mora drew with him in fought cotto at the end of 2009-legit fought clottey after the cotto loss- but hey he did fight them Come on guys, Cotto, Clottey, Mosley and Margarito, ALL FOUGHT EACH OTHER IN THOSE 3 YEARS, they went round robin in terms of winnings and losses, so it's understandable how their records went, each have winnings and losses among each other. They were fighting at the top level just like when Leonard, Duran, Hearns and Hagler went round robin with theirs.. If each of them went the same route as Berto did, fighting bums, each would have a perfect score.. Manny fought them all, it's impossible and suicsiedle to fight them all in 1 year, Manny may have timed it best but fighting the big four in 2years ain't BAD!!!!

Man, Floyd fans can talk about whatever they want, criticize whatever they want but they are touchy about someone mentioning their hero Floyd. First he mentions something irrelevant such as Martinez is #1 then asks on the very next post, why are others picking on Floyd. Me saying Martinez is number 1 is in DIRECT response to the title of the thread. I had him at Number 1 on my list and people whined about it. Facts are Pac has spent the last few years stalling and beating overmatched, shot or fighters that have both elements.

Better post. At least you broke it down. I like a good fight but admit to when its not (as expected). You are thinking its a mental thing but when they all did it against Manny ONLY then there is only one common denominator and that is Manny. Who has ever made Mosley run like that? Fight like that? Who has ever made Clottey fight like a turtle? Who has ever made Oscar retreat like that? Quit like that? Even the Margarito fight. Mosley fought a smart fight by holding and making sure that Margarito could not get off his punches. Manny did it differently and never held on to Margarito. Manny has many good fights in his career. Some which were very exciting .... you can't deny that. The issues that I have with Floyd is that he could have fought a better cast of oppositions. How can he claim that he is better than Ali then hibernate? Ali would have fought everyone in his division ..... Ali would even go to their house to call them out just to get the fight on. Because Floyd spent his whole life in the sport and done a great deal, it is in his right to feel he is the best (Manny himself has the same right) because he put in a ton of work like it or not. You don't have to agree but he isn't out there for thinking like that especially while he is active because boxing is very confidence driven. That is part of the whole point with the guys not fighting a lot they were not into the game, some like Clottey are naturally disposed to fight that way while other were broken men. Manny is a great fighter there is not denying that, but that also doesn't mean he is perfect or that things about his career can't be debated particularly because people do big up these wins but there is another side to the coin on them. Still even with certain questions that doesn't mean Manny isn't great it would be a matter of how great.

I disagree with everything you said, I don't need to be specific but here~ I didn't feel Clottey would be a competitive fight, because one Clottey finds ways to lose big fights and two Manny will force Clottey to be overly defensive. Margarito didn't show anything in the tune-up and he was never a big puncher anyways. He is bigger but he doesn't use his size advantage in a way that would give Manny maximum issues. He was a guy Manny was suppose to look great on offense against and Manny did that. Mosley I felt would try and box he did, it gave Manny certain issues but while Mosley did create some opportunities he never tried to exploit them. As for JMM, I like JMM and this is the fight he wants so whatever, he has given Manny issues in the past and hope he is still up to the task. I don't know if he is or not will let you know after I watch the fight. Even him Manny is well versed in what JMM does so it is not some big challenge for him he has fought him for 24 rounds both guys should know the others. You brought up how those guys fell apart because of what Manny did, what does that really say about the guys mentalities he fought, hear I will give you a hint the first word is mentally and the last word is spell with w - e- a- and k. Beating mentally soft guys impresses you, you are obviously easy to please so I can't see why you have these grand issues with Floyd. Better post. At least you broke it down. I like a good fight but admit to when its not (as expected). You are thinking its a mental thing but when they all did it against Manny ONLY then there is only one common denominator and that is Manny. Who has ever made Mosley run like that? Fight like that? Who has ever made Clottey fight like a turtle? Who has ever made Oscar retreat like that? Quit like that? Even the Margarito fight. Mosley fought a smart fight by holding and making sure that Margarito could not get off his punches. Manny did it differently and never held on to Margarito. Manny has many good fights in his career. Some which were very exciting .... you can't deny that. The issues that I have with Floyd is that he could have fought a better cast of oppositions. How can he claim that he is better than Ali then hibernate? Ali would have fought everyone in his division ..... Ali would even go to their house to call them out just to get the fight on.

In a thread thats about Pacs last 3 opponents having one win between them in 2 1/2 years Im trying as hard as I can to see what that has to do with Floyd. no i get it you are incapable of defending the criticisms being levied at Pac without mentioning mayweather or flomos. Martinez is the P4P Number 1 imo. Man, Floyd fans can talk about whatever they want, criticize whatever they want but they are touchy about someone mentioning their hero Floyd. First he mentions something irrelevant such as Martinez is #1 then asks on the very next post, why are others picking on Floyd.

:pat: Sorry that I don't feel exactly the way you do about the fights. I meant: You could have stated what part you disagreed but you just made a general comment. Example: I didn't see the point of taking on Mosley but as a fight, I thought it would still be decent because you have 2 guys who always come to fight. It wasn't and I explained why. You could have stated which part you agreed or disagreed .... instead you tried your best to just try to discredit my comments with no follow-up comments on your part. I disagree with everything you said, I don't need to be specific but here~ I didn't feel Clottey would be a competitive fight, because one Clottey finds ways to lose big fights and two Manny will force Clottey to be overly defensive. Margarito didn't show anything in the tune-up and he was never a big puncher anyways. He is bigger but he doesn't use his size advantage in a way that would give Manny maximum issues. He was a guy Manny was suppose to look great on offense against and Manny did that. Mosley I felt would try and box he did, it gave Manny certain issues but while Mosley did create some opportunities he never tried to exploit them. As for JMM, I like JMM and this is the fight he wants so whatever, he has given Manny issues in the past and hope he is still up to the task. I don't know if he is or not will let you know after I watch the fight. Even him Manny is well versed in what JMM does so it is not some big challenge for him he has fought him for 24 rounds both guys should know the others tendencies and abilities. You brought up how those guys fell apart because of what Manny did, what does that really say about the guys mentalities he fought, here I will give you a hint the first word is mentally and the last word is spell with w - e- a- and k. Beating mentally soft guys impresses you, you are obviously easy to please so I can't see why you have these grand issues with Floyd.

Do you know what the phrase means? It means blindly following basically. Reading what you wrote pretty much is exactly that, you may have had some issues but you still thought the fights would all be good and were solid fights. You can think whatever way you like but damn man up and say it, you don't need to bring in another guy to justify why you feel a certain way. :pat: Sorry that I don't feel exactly the way you do about the fights. I meant: You could have stated what part you disagreed but you just made a general comment. Example: I didn't see the point of taking on Mosley but as a fight, I thought it would still be decent because you have 2 guys who always come to fight. It wasn't and I explained why. You could have stated which part you agreed or disagreed .... instead you tried your best to just try to discredit my comments with no follow-up comments on your part.

Sorry but when Floyd fans try to discredit Manny's record then Floyd's stats are fair game..... but you just didn't get my point as to why I mentioned it. no i get it you are incapable of defending the criticisms being levied at Pac without mentioning mayweather or flomos.

In a thread thats about Pacs last 3 opponents having one win between them in 2 1/2 years Im trying as hard as I can to see what that has to do with Floyd.