Did I miss something? Or did Hopkins start boxing at an earlier age than Pacquaio?

The PED scandal towards Pac doesn't come from his continued performance, but rather his increase in size and power while not sacrificing much speed. It's not too uncommon to maintain skills as long as he isn't getting beat up. But it is uncommon for him to maintain punching power while moving up in size. BHop was knocking people out at Middleweight. He can't knock anyone out at LHW. However, Pacquiao is knocking people out at JrMW like he was knocking people out at Featherweight. PED isn't a longevity issue. It's a "where the hell is this power and ability to take a punch coming from?!" issue. It's nearly unprecedented, that's why eyebrows have been raised. I touched base on this in the thread that got deleted. This supposed size and increase in power is false. Pac has been weighing in the 140s for years. There was no drastic size increase just as there has been no drastic power increase. Since moving up above 135, he has only one punch KOd Ricky Hatton. DLH, retired on his stool and the Cotto fight was stopped by the ref in the 12th round. The last 3 Manny fights, have gone the distance. You're not seeing an increase in power. You're seeing how he has the hand speed and foot speed advantage over everyone hes faced since moving up beyond 135. Combine that with him only re hydrating a few pounds instead of 10 plus, and you have a very fast and strong fighter at his optimum weight. And just like in the thread that got deleted, dropping, stopping and KOing opponents as hes moved up, is not unprecedented. We have already seen this done by Roberto Duran, who fought from 118 to 170, and Tommy Hearns, who fought from 147 to 190. They carried their power up as well, and have KO victories in those higher weights. What is unprecedented is, a 46 year old fighter, winning a championship in dominating fashion. "But Bernard doesn't use steroids because he dedicated his life to boxing". Don't even try it pal. Manny has been a pro since the age of 17. Bernards first pro fight wasn't until he was almost 24. Just say you have a double standard.

If you pay attention to him, Bernard hopkins always breaks down exactly how and why he was able to beat an opponent. With that said, I agree it does expose certain guys with an agenda as both Hopkins and Manny circumstances are the same, but it seems that Manny is the only one recieving heat about. TBH neither are on PED's and there rise to greatest has been attributed to their improved skill set. Precisely neither one should be accused but it happens, Mayweather did it as a negotiating tactic, Pascal because he was a beaten man who couldn't handle B-Hop.

All I hear people say when they try to dismiss Bernard as being a PED user is, "Bernard has dedicated his life to boxing and he doesn't smoke or drink". Hopkins first pro fight was at 23. Mannys was just a month after his 17th birthday. I don't recall seeing Manny being a drinker or smoker either. So, how can people sit there and try to use that as an excuse? Manny has been involved with boxing at a much earlier age than Bernard. So that whole excuse about Bernard having dedicated his life to boxing, doesn't work when Manny dedicated his life to boxing much earlier. So why does Bernard get a pass again? Huh???????

The PED scandal towards Pac doesn't come from his continued performance, but rather his increase in size and power while not sacrificing much speed. It's not too uncommon to maintain skills as long as he isn't getting beat up. But it is uncommon for him to maintain punching power while moving up in size. BHop was knocking people out at Middleweight. He can't knock anyone out at LHW. However, Pacquiao is knocking people out at JrMW like he was knocking people out at Featherweight. PED isn't a longevity issue. It's a "where the hell is this power and ability to take a punch coming from?!" issue. It's nearly unprecedented, that's why eyebrows have been raised. So his punching power has increased? Or has he always been strong, but fighting with better competition have just made him look human? I copied this list from another forum. The ones highlighted in green have gone the distance on decision/points. Notice how he hasn't been knocking out people at 145+. The Larios fight went all 12, but he was knocked down several times. 145 Shane Mosley 147 W UD 12 - WBO welterweight title Defense 144½ Antonio Margarito 150 W UD 12 - WBC super welterweight title 145¾ Joshua Clottey 147 W UD 12 - WBO welterweight title Defense 144 Miguel Angel Cotto 145 W TKO 12 - WBO welterweight title 138 Ricky Hatton 140 W KO 2 - Ring & IBO light welterweight title 142 Oscar De La Hoya 145 W RTD 8 134½ David Diaz 135 W TKO 9 - WBC lightweight title ---------- Moves up to Lightweight - Welterweight -------------------- 129 Juan Manuel Marquez 130 W SD 12 - Ring & WBC super featherweight title 130 Marco Antonio Barrera 130 W UD 12 - WBC International super featherweight title Defense 128¾ Jorge Solis 130 W KO 8 - WBC International super featherweight title Defense 129 Erik Morales 129 W KO 3 - WBC International super featherweight title Defense 129½ Oscar Larios 129 W UD 12 - WBC International super featherweight title Defense 128½ Erik Morales 130 W TKO 10 - WBC International super featherweight title Defense 130 Hector Velazquez 130 W TKO 6 - vacant WBC International super featherweight title 129½ Erik Morales 130 L UD 12 - vacant WBC International & vacant IBA super featherweight title ---------- Moves up to Super Featherweight -------------------- 125 Fahsan 3K Battery 124 W TKO 4 125 Juan Manuel Marquez 125 D SD 12 - UNIFICATION - Ring, IBF, & WBA Super World featherweight titles 125 Marco Antonio Barrera 126 W TKO 11 - Wins Ring Featherweight Title ---------- Moves up to Featherweight -------------------- 120 Emmanuel Lucero 121¼ W TKO 3 - IBF Super Bantamweight Title Defense 126 Serikzhan Yeshmagambetov 126½ W TKO 5 122 Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym 121 W KO 1 - IBF Super Bantamweight Title Defense 120 Jorge Eliecer Julio 122 W TKO 2 - IBF Super Bantamweight Title Defense 120½ Agapito Sanchez 120½ D TD 6 - UNIFICATION - IBF & WBO Super bantamweight titles 121 Lehlohonolo Ledwaba 122 W TKO 6 - Wins IBF Super Bantamweight Title 122 Wethya Sakmuangklang W TKO 6 - WBC International super bantamweight title Defense 122 Tetsutora Senrima 121½ W TKO 5 - WBC International super bantamweight title Defense 121 Nedal Hussein 122 W TKO 10 - WBC International super bantamweight title Defense 121¾ Seung-Kon Chae W TKO 1 - WBC International super bantamweight title Defense 119 Arnel Barotillo W KO 4 - WBC International super bantamweight title Defense 122 Reynante Jamili 122 W TKO 2 - Wins WBC International super bantamweight title ---------- Moves up to Super Bantamweight -------------------- 113 Medgoen Singsurat 112 L KO 3 - Lost WBC Flyweight Title - ***Manny came 1lb overweight 111¾ Gabriel Mira 110½ W TKO 4 - WBC Flyweight Title Defense 116 Todd Makelim 115 W TKO 3 112 Chatchai Sasakul 112 W KO 8 - Won WBC Flyweight Title 114 Shin Terao 113½ W KO 1 111 Panomdej Ohyuthanakorn 110 W KO 1 OPBF Flyweight Title Defense 114 Melvin Magramo 113 W UD 10 112 Chokchai Chockvivat 110 W KO 5 - Won OPBF Flyweight Title 112 Ariel Austria 112 W TKO 6 113 Wook-Ki Lee 115 W KO 1 113 Mike Luna 112 W KO 1 113 Sung-Yul Lee W TKO 2 114 Ippo Gala W TKO 2 116 Bert Batiller 116 W TKO 4 114 John Medina 111 W TKO 4 112 Marlon Carillo W PTS 10 112 Rustico Torrecampo 110 L KO 3 - ***Manny came 1lb over the catchweight 113 Lito Torrejos W TD 5 ---------- 1996 - Turns 17 years old (111-116lbs) -------------------- 109 Rolando Toyogon 108 W PTS 10 106 Rudolfo Fernandez 107 W TKO 3 109 Renato Mendones W TKO 2 109 Lolito Laroa 109 W PTS 8 110 Armando Rocil W KO 3 108 Acasio Simbajon 107 W UD 6 110 Dele Decierto W TKO 2 107 Rocky Palma 107 W PTS 6 107 Pinoy Montejo 107 W PTS 4 106 Edmund Enting Ignacio W PTS 4 ---------- 1995 - Turns 16 years old (106-110lbs) --------------------

take the test hopkins

I would assume that Pac's diet and nutrtional intake has improved dramatically since he started fghting here in the US. I heard he was extremely poor, even by Filipino standards.

If you pay attention to him, Bernard hopkins always breaks down exactly how and why he was able to beat an opponent. With that said, I agree it does expose certain guys with an agenda as both Hopkins and Manny circumstances are the same, but it seems that Manny is the only one recieving heat about. TBH neither are on PED's and there rise to greatest has been attributed to their improved skill set. i disagree one was born in a Third World countrie and the other was not. how can the circumstances be the same especially when one is as face first brawler and the other is not. i do not have any agenda but to say both are the same is dumb :pat:

The PED scandal towards Pac doesn't come from his continued performance, but rather his increase in size and power while not sacrificing much speed. It's not too uncommon to maintain skills as long as he isn't getting beat up. But it is uncommon for him to maintain punching power while moving up in size. BHop was knocking people out at Middleweight. He can't knock anyone out at LHW. However, Pacquiao is knocking people out at JrMW like he was knocking people out at Featherweight. PED isn't a longevity issue. It's a "where the hell is this power and ability to take a punch coming from?!" issue. It's nearly unprecedented, that's why eyebrows have been raised.

either way, performance should never be a reason to suspect one is cheating. just because one is doing great things, why should we already assume that something is not right? i mean we should give those guys the benefit of the doubt. both fighters take the commission tests, same as what the other boxers take, yet they (especially pac) are being asked to prove their innocence in a different standard than the rest of the boxers. i find that lame As do I. I just find the double standards, and especially the case being presented for why Hopkins doesn't have to cater to anyones demands, a bit false. Its not surprising that those who have used the excuse of Bernard dedicating his life to boxing, are nowhere to be found in this thread.

either way, performance should never be a reason to suspect one is cheating. just because one is doing great things, why should we already assume that something is not right? i mean we should give those guys the benefit of the doubt. both fighters take the commission tests, same as what the other boxers take, yet they (especially pac) are being asked to prove their innocence in a different standard than the rest of the boxers. i find that lame

If you pay attention to him, Bernard hopkins always breaks down exactly how and why he was able to beat an opponent. With that said, I agree it does expose certain guys with an agenda as both Hopkins and Manny circumstances are the same, but it seems that Manny is the only one recieving heat about. TBH neither are on PED's and there rise to greatest has been attributed to their improved skill set. I agree. I made a similar thread last night, talking about how both fighters use movement and technique, but in vastly different ways due to their different attributes. It went into a bit of detail about how one guy was doing things that has never been done before, but only one actually gets stick for it. The wrong one. However, it got deleted. I just feel its important to for people to understand that Manny didn't just pick up boxing at the age of 26 and start destroying opponents with one super punch. He started his boxing career much earlier than Hopkins and should also be one who is known to have dedicated his life to the sport and given the exact same respect. Also, Freddie happens to break down the gameplan for Manny quite well.

If you pay attention to him, Bernard hopkins always breaks down exactly how and why he was able to beat an opponent. With that said, I agree it does expose certain guys with an agenda as both Hopkins and Manny circumstances are the same, but it seems that Manny is the only one recieving heat about. TBH neither are on PED's and there rise to greatest has been attributed to their improved skill set.