was jean pascal a paper champ?

baldomir beat judah who was 1-5 against top 10 welterweights. pascal beat dawson who is 7-1 against top 10 light heavies. i think pascal is a little more legit. Dawson was 7-1 entering the Pascal fight or you mean right now he's 7-1? Because Dawson was undefeated entering the Pascal fight, against top 10 LHW's, 6-0. Harding was a top 10, Adamek, Johnson 2x, Tarver 2x, that's 6, 6-0, the Pascal fight made him 6-1, now he's 7-1 with the Diaconu win.

baldomir beat judah who was 1-5 against top 10 welterweights. pascal beat dawson who is 7-1 against top 10 light heavies. i think pascal is a little more legit.

I think technically Zsolt Erdie is the lineal champ, sadly enough. Zsolt vacated his lone tangible link to the lineage, moved up, and didn't fight at Light Heavyweight for over a year. Joe Gans vacated and had to regain the Lightweight title in the ring with barely a year between the whole thing. That standard is good enough for Zsolt. PAscal and Dawson were 1-2 when they fought, clearly. Pascal was the champ. Hopkins IS the champ.

No, don't know how you can make an argument for 'yes' :thinking:

^^^^he beat dawson. if you seen the first fight (pascal vs hopkins), you might think, he'll make adjustments, suddle ones, maybe, but obviously not enough to win....I think I had him losing every round from the 6th on and only winning 4 rounds tops. An okay fight, even though I question Pascal's legitimacy, I also account his performance to what Hopkins did; (might as well continue this rant) whether Hopkins is putting his head into his opponent or poking their eye with his thumb (lol) or just using his ring iq to find openings for right hand leads, he's a very smart and capable fighter even at the age of 46. If Pascal regroups and focuses on his timing and stamina, he should be right back in the mix....sounds like a safe prediction, I know, but when/if he gets his stamina up, we'll go from there. a little late, but for whatever it's worth, I definitely had him winning the 12th round...which gives Pascal, rounds, 1, 2, 4, 5 and then the 12th...which isn't that bad in hindsight, but congrats hopkins :boxing:

beating Judah and Gatti>beat Dawson on his worst night ever and Diaconu. and Baldomir is WAY more skilled than Pascal. how the hell is Pascal skilled? Is it his inability to throw a straight right, his utter lack of defense, or his amateurish flurry and run style that lead you to that belief? It's the fact that in the first fight with B-Hop he did settle things that showed he was skilled enough to make B-Hop think twice before attacking him..He beat the breaks off of Dawson(who you claim had an off night lol sure)who fights the same way all the time..Pascal is more talented and imo harder to beat then a homeless mans Marg's..

me too man that would be ****ing awesome i'd pick cloud via late round stoppage just because of the consistency of his work. possibly a decision because pascal's got a solid beard, but he's never fought a young LHW with an all out style like clouds. pascal had it rough with diacanu, and cloud is diacanu's hero and the man he wishes he was. and pascals really not a runner, he just moves away to take breaks i think cloud walks him down and beats on him all night maybe cloud gets dropped pascal litterally throws about ten hard punches a round, but they are all out bolos that can hurt or drop anybody at 175 he literally just swings it would be an awesome tv fight with lots of power punches landing and YOUNG fighters! I would favor Pascal's experience to take him to victory,but I would not be surprised if Cloud stopped him or won on the cards..I truly believe it's a fight that needs to be made imo,it just makes sense at this point..But one thing..Cloud was hit very easy and look a bit worn down tbh by an old man..Pascal hit's hard and with Cloud walking in I think he will be touch a lot..I hope this one get's made tbh..

I want Pascal Cloud..I predict FOTY.. agreed, their styles could mesh well....:boxing:

He was a paper champ before the Dawson fight, but that win over Chad made him the real champ.

So beating bad Chad was not good enough for you??Comparing Pascal to Baldy is foul,I totally disagree..Pascal is fast explosive and has some skill,he is not a slow plodder like Baldy.. beating Judah and Gatti>beat Dawson on his worst night ever and Diaconu. and Baldomir is WAY more skilled than Pascal. how the hell is Pascal skilled? Is it his inability to throw a straight right, his utter lack of defense, or his amateurish flurry and run style that lead you to that belief?

Of course not.

Dawson is not really much of a back peddler, he comes forward in most of his fights so I don't know what you mean by that? He came forward and created the fight against Diaconu, he came forward against Pascal while Pascal was literally running around the ring, I like boxers but what Pascal did was run, Dawson also came forward against Adamek, the first Tarver fight. Dawson is a come forward boxer, not fighter, because he doesn't trade. His defense is not the best, but his style is coming forward and trying to box while coming forward, it's a strange style. But I don't know what you mean that he's uncomfortable coming forward. Look at his fights against Johnson 1, Tarver 1, Pascal, Diaconu, Adamek, he always comes forward, he rarely back peddles, the most I see him do is lean back which is a formula to get caught a lot. Correction, dawson is a toe to toe fighter who doesn't punch whilst moving, but when set. He has the same problem that Pavlik and Kessler have. Where they need to be set before throwing. Not only does he need to be set, but he also waits before firing off shots as well. Pascal gave him trouble because he never sat still. He never sat still long enough for Dawson to get set and take action. INstead, he just moved side to side and then came in with flurries every now and then - another problem Dawson has because his defense is to grab, cover up, or slip and get out and get set all over again. These are fundamental problems that he STILL has. In short - Dawson prefers to stay in punching range so he can land and take a stroll/pose like he always does (a problem Cotto had for a long time.. and cost him in both Margi/Pacman fights.. he was literally HIT while posing/resetting after admiring his work). Fighters who don't allow him to do this will always give him a world of trouble.. Pascal being one of them.. because Dawson cant punch WHILE moving forward.. just AFTER moving forward and then getting set.

RC, I wouldn't call Baldomir lucky in his WW run. He entered the Floyd fight with a 19-0 winning streak. So if he was lucky, he must've had some super luck with him cause winning 19 in a row including beating The Ring/WBC champion Zab Judah, he's really lucky to have 19 fights in a row go his way. Pascal, i'd say he's better than Baldomir, I don't think Baldomir has more good wins than Pascal and Pascal just basically started recently in 2008 to really hit the scene and he already has 3 good wins under his resume, Diaconu twice, Dawson once. Not bad. I don't think he's as easy to beat as people think. I'd favor him against Cloud, Glen, and every other LHW not named Hopkins or Dawson, and even against Dawson that fight is tough. against Hopkins, let's not act like Hopkins completely steamrolled through Pascal with no problem, Hopkins clearly won both fights, but they were tough. I think Pascal beats Bute, Kessler, Cloud, Johnson, Abraham, Cleverly. When you can only think of 1-2 boxers that can beat some one, you can't really call them a bum, a bum can be beaten by anybody. Well he also had 2 draws and that DQ to clottey when he was losing I'm not gonna go into who was a better medicore fighter but I'm just saying both won lineal titles but really weren't the best

me too man that would be ****ing awesome i'd pick cloud via late round stoppage just because of the consistency of his work. possibly a decision because pascal's got a solid beard, but he's never fought a young LHW with an all out style like clouds. pascal had it rough with diacanu, and cloud is diacanu's hero and the man he wishes he was. and pascals really not a runner, he just moves away to take breaks i think cloud walks him down and beats on him all night maybe cloud gets dropped pascal litterally throws about ten hard punches a round, but they are all out bolos that can hurt or drop anybody at 175 he literally just swings it would be an awesome tv fight with lots of power punches landing and YOUNG fighters! I just want to see cloud in the mix more, honestly. He has a fan friendly style. He fights in a shell but he actually engages from it. Lets get this man some dates. The divisons top fighers are all so different. and all make for some exciting fights imo with the exception of say.. Dawson/Hopkins meeting up or Dirrel/Ward meeting either Dawson or Hopkins. But 168-175 is incredibly stacked right now and i cant help but feel like CLoud is getting the shaft pretty badly.

a dawson that didnt show up? Umm. I guess the dawson on saturday didn't show up either, right? Dawson loses to pascal 9 out of 10 times because dawson is only good when he fights at HIS pace and dictates the action. He doesn't like being forced to come forward and he doesn't punch when being punched AT. Pascal dictates the pace in every fight vs Dawson. By running and then coming in and punching in spurts. Something dawson hates - Moving forward and Having to punch while being punched AT. Cloud would have had a field day if he were in Diacs place the other night, as would nard and Pascal. dawson just isn't that good. He's talented, but he's not a "fighter", no killer instinct. It's simply sport to him nothing else. He gets comfortable with landing 1 punch and then posing like he's hot **** - walking around the ring as if that 1 punch is enough to win the entire round. Dawson is not really much of a back peddler, he comes forward in most of his fights so I don't know what you mean by that? He came forward and created the fight against Diaconu, he came forward against Pascal while Pascal was literally running around the ring, I like boxers but what Pascal did was run, Dawson also came forward against Adamek, the first Tarver fight. Dawson is a come forward boxer, not fighter, because he doesn't trade. His defense is not the best, but his style is coming forward and trying to box while coming forward, it's a strange style. But I don't know what you mean that he's uncomfortable coming forward. Look at his fights against Johnson 1, Tarver 1, Pascal, Diaconu, Adamek, he always comes forward, he rarely back peddles, the most I see him do is lean back which is a formula to get caught a lot.

I want Pascal Cloud..I predict FOTY.. me too man that would be ****ing awesome i'd pick cloud via late round stoppage just because of the consistency of his work. possibly a decision because pascal's got a solid beard, but he's never fought a young LHW with an all out style like clouds. pascal had it rough with diacanu, and cloud is diacanu's hero and the man he wishes he was. and pascals really not a runner, he just moves away to take breaks i think cloud walks him down and beats on him all night maybe cloud gets dropped pascal litterally throws about ten hard punches a round, but they are all out bolos that can hurt or drop anybody at 175 he literally just swings it would be an awesome tv fight with lots of power punches landing and YOUNG fighters!

RC, I wouldn't call Baldomir lucky in his WW run. He entered the Floyd fight with a 19-0 winning streak. So if he was lucky, he must've had some super luck with him cause winning 19 in a row including beating The Ring/WBC champion Zab Judah, he's really lucky to have 19 fights in a row go his way. Pascal, i'd say he's better than Baldomir, I don't think Baldomir has more good wins than Pascal and Pascal just basically started recently in 2008 to really hit the scene and he already has 3 good wins under his resume, Diaconu twice, Dawson once. Not bad. I don't think he's as easy to beat as people think. I'd favor him against Cloud, Glen, and every other LHW not named Hopkins or Dawson, and even against Dawson that fight is tough. against Hopkins, let's not act like Hopkins completely steamrolled through Pascal with no problem, Hopkins clearly won both fights, but they were tough. I think Pascal beats Bute, Kessler, Cloud, Johnson, Abraham, Cleverly. When you can only think of 1-2 boxers that can beat some one, you can't really call them a bum, a bum can be beaten by anybody. Agree 100%, but Pascal is all wrong for Dawson IMO. Thats a fight he wins every time. And I also don't see him beating Bute. I see him longing in and eating a upper a bit too often, lol. I'm not sold on bute at all however, that dude is a 1 trick pony through and through. He always looks pretty bad up until he finally pulls his uppercut out. IMO he loses any fight where his uppercut doesn't land at this point.

RC, I wouldn't call Baldomir lucky in his WW run. He entered the Floyd fight with a 19-0 winning streak. So if he was lucky, he must've had some super luck with him cause winning 19 in a row including beating The Ring/WBC champion Zab Judah, he's really lucky to have 19 fights in a row go his way. Pascal, i'd say he's better than Baldomir, I don't think Baldomir has more good wins than Pascal and Pascal just basically started recently in 2008 to really hit the scene and he already has 3 good wins under his resume, Diaconu twice, Dawson once. Not bad. I don't think he's as easy to beat as people think. I'd favor him against Cloud, Glen, and every other LHW not named Hopkins or Dawson, and even against Dawson that fight is tough. against Hopkins, let's not act like Hopkins completely steamrolled through Pascal with no problem, Hopkins clearly won both fights, but they were tough. I think Pascal beats Bute, Kessler, Cloud, Johnson, Abraham, Cleverly. When you can only think of 1-2 boxers that can beat some one, you can't really call them a bum, a bum can be beaten by anybody.

I want Pascal Cloud..I predict FOTY.. I agree 100%

^^^^he beat dawson. if you seen the first fight (pascal vs hopkins), you might think, he'll make adjustments, suddle ones, maybe, but obviously not enough to win....I think I had him losing every round from the 6th on and only winning 4 rounds tops. An okay fight, even though I question Pascal's legitimacy, I also account his performance to what Hopkins did; (might as well continue this rant) whether Hopkins is putting his head into his opponent or poking their eye with his thumb (lol) or just using his ring iq to find openings for right hand leads, he's a very smart and capable fighter even at the age of 46. If Pascal regroups and focuses on his timing and stamina, he should be right back in the mix....sounds like a safe prediction, I know, but when/if he gets his stamina up, we'll go from there. I want Pascal Cloud..I predict FOTY..