Victor Conte on Boxing, USADA, Steroids, Blood-Doping, EPO

Bee_Keepz15y ago

FLOMOS PUBLIC ENEMY #1: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.aolnews.com/media/2010/04/victorconteclose250.jpg Source: Victor Conte on Boxing, USADA, Steroids, Blood-Doping, EPO I'm now a part of the anti-doping movement. I'm trying to help those at WADA and, USADA to develop more effective anti-doping policies and procedures. And that's what I'm doing now, and I'm very outspoken about it. That point was in 2000, and, of course, I did that for the years 2000, 2001, 2002, and, 2003. So, for four years, I was about helping athletes to circumvent these testing policies. Once BALCO was raided, I realized how I had been reckless, and that I had put many others at risk -- Victor Conte. FanHouse caught up with former BALCO founder, Victor Conte, to get his view on why a fighter would benefit from steroids or EPO, as well as his explanation as to how a competitor's illicit drug use can escape detection by not only by the sport's current drug-testing system, but, also, that employed, for the first time in boxing history, by The United States Anti-Doping Agency for the May 1 clash between Floyd Mayweather and Shane Mosley. FanHouse: Can we begin with the concern for EPO in boxing? Victor Conte: Well, you're specifically asking about the significance of the phrase, '19 hours.' And yes, EPO will clear the system in less than a day. But that number is a mean average -- the 19 hours. So what that means is that you only have to do an injection of EPO to maintain the intial stage. When we first started using the drug, it the initial stage was called, 'The corrective phase.' And that when typically you do it three times a week for two weeks. And you monitor your hermaticrit -- the percentage of red blood cells -- and then, you re-test, and if you hit the mark, then you thereafter can go to the second phase, which they call 'The maintainence phase.' As you know, there's the uses of EPO for cancer patients and kidney failure patients and HIV patients. Can you please continue to clarify what's going on here with this, and what you're getting at? Okay, so, now, here is what typically these athletes can do. They're sophisticated. They will use EPO, and let's just say that their normal hermaticrit starts out within a boxer. Say he starts out with a baseline hermaticrit of 44 percent. After using EPO, for two weeks, it goes to 52 percent. What do those numbers mean? That means that you have your total whole blood volume is approximately 44 percent red bood cells and 56 percent serum, which is the fluid portion of blood. When you produce more red blood cells, then the percentage of the red blood cells compared to the total whole blood volume becomes higher. So you have more red blood cells and oxygen molecules which attaches to hemogloein on the red blood cells, and that's what fuels and carries your nutrients to the rest of your tissues. You will absolutely have great recovery, and you will have far better oxygen uptake and utilization. It will really serve you in the later rounds. However, this is important to understand. When they test the blood, they look at the percentage. Can you provide me with an example of that type of examination or testing of the blood? As an example, with cyclists, for example, Tour De France cyclists. They test the blood, and if it comes back higher than 50 percent on the side of the red blood cells, they don't ban them, but they suspend them for two weeks for what they call 'Health concerns.' Okay? So you don't want your baseline hermaticrit to be over 50 percent. They like to target it and keep it at 49 percent. Increasing it from 44-to-49 percent, however, will certainly increase your performance. Okay, so, can you please apply that to boxing? So let's back up, hypothetically, okay, to Manny Pacquiao or Floyd Mayweather when they were signing or negotiating for their fight, or in the case of the Mayweather-Shane Mosley fight. If somebody were advising them, they could have used EPO throughout for two weeks, if someone were advising them on how to do it, just like the cyclists do, and they could have previously extracted some of these red blood cells and put them in the refridgerator. Okay? So then, five weeks out from the fight, coming in, they can't use EPO, because they're being randomly tested and that might be discovered even though the EPO only stays within your system for a day. But you can re-infuse your own red blood cells. And if you are shown how to re-infuse your red blood cells, they can't detect that. But they can detect the percentage increase, correct? But they can detect the percentage, exactly. If you're re-infusing the blood and that percentage starts to drop down, you know, as you're preparing and training for the fight, then you can just re-infuse some of their previously withdrawn red blood cells by intravenous injection. They can re-infuse that and they can keep it at a steady level of 49 percent all the way up to the fight. So now, that's all undetectable by USADA. Is that called blood-doping? That's called blood-doping. What different types of EPO are there? Well, you know, there are a number of them. Do you mean brands or are you talking about the different generations? I mean the ones that would be most applicable to the situation in which it would likely be used to achieve the effects that a boxer might want to achieve? Well, let me explain something, because I see where you're going with your questions here. And, let me say this. That, the reason that I don't believe that this testing that the United States Anti-Doping Agency did for the Floyd Mayweather-Shane Mosley fight was truly random... And I heard over, and over, and over, that it was going to be, 'Random, random, random.' But that is not random when you start five weeks out from a fight, and then you do blood tests until three weeks out from a fight, testing for a couple of weeks, and then you have no blood testing for a final 19 or 18 days. I know that the threat is there of them blood testing at any time, and that that means that it could be random, but in this particular case, in the end, it really wasn't. Now, you started out by asking 'What is it that a boxer could do?' Yes, I mean, what desired effect could a boxer get out of this? Here's something that you have to realize. Let's take an Olympic athlete that is subject to this USADA-type of testing, and they're preparing for a competitive season that leads to the Olympic games -- whether you're an Olympic track athlete, a swimmer, boxer, whatever. So that's going to be in an August time-frame, of, let's say, for preparation for the Beijing Olympics in 2008. The year before, October, November, December, January, during those months, they can use anabolic steroids in conjunction with an intense weight training program. And they can develop an explosive strength and speed base. That's going to serve them nine months later at the Olympic games. So, in other words, if it's before that fight, all that they had to do before the start of the testing -- I believe on March 22 for a May 1 fight? They could have been using testosterone for three months before that date, and the benefits would carry over that five weeks until the fight. And, in fact, what people don't understand, and we'll talk specifically about anabolic steroids, now, is that you perform far better when you're a couple of weeks off of steroids than you do when you're on steroids. Why is that? The reason is that steroids work through a process called 'Cell-voluminaztion.' So it makes you pumped, and you give yourself more nutrients and fluids inside of the cells. And it helps you to grow and it helps you to become stronger, but it also makes you tight. You lack in flexibility and speed. If you taper off of steroids for two weeks, you can regain a normal water balance and you are faster and more powerful than ever. So, what could have happened is that for two months, let's say, before this March 22 date they used with Mayweather and Mosley, a boxer could have used anabolic steroids. This is hypothetical here. And then, they go off of them. Well, then you're still, believe me, the benefits of using two months of testosterone or anabolic steroids are still going to be there five weeks later. You are going to retain a lot of the strength and the speed from using the steroids. So that's a way that you can beat the testing? You can totally beat the testing, and it's not random because it starts five weeks out from the fight. Random is 24/7, 365 days a year. It's not five weeks before a fight. When I hear this, 'Random, random, random,' well, what about the five weeks before the USADA testing began when either fighter could have been using anabolic steroids? ...40 pages

Comments (20)

warp1432

The way Boxing is, where there is no one commission or set of them to order fighters to take tests year round, then the way Mayweather-Mosley tested was the closest way to finding out besides the way being testing. To me, I would at least like to see fighters being randomly tested during camp. That would be progress. The way boxing is though, they aren't going to change. There's no rush. Also, I have to wonder how many top level fighters are cheating. I don't think a lot are. There really hasnt been a top name using steroids since 2003. Not saying all are clean, but the people suspected (ie: Pacquiao, Hopkins, Ward, Donaire, and possibly even Wlad) are most likely clean.

15y ago

Bee_Keepz

So they sought Conte's advice and Conte said five days, but it wasn't good enough sounds like. Victor Conte - "I would not want to single-out Manny Pacquiao because I have no direct evidence that he has used any performance enhancing drugs. That being said, I think we need to be suspicious of everybody at the elite level. What he's doing, to go from the lower weight divisions up to many divisions higher and maintain his speed and power- is that suspicious? Yes it is. But are there people throughout Olympic or professional sports history that are just genetic freaks and have a mindset that's powerful, and I guess the question is, 'Could you do what Manny Pacquiao does?' or 'Could other fighters do what Manny Pacquiao does and be clean?', I believe with hard-tech nutrition and training and these other available methods like this intermittent hypoxic training which has some of the benefits, the same benefits you would receive from using EPO, I believe it can be done." "I don't think Manny should be singled-out until some specific information comes forward indicating that he has used performance enhancing drugs." "I was contacted by people associated with Floyd Mayweather when they were having the judge arbitrate how to come up with a (drug testing) program and what I recommended and I clearly understand Manny Pacquiao is not the first athlete that has had an adverse psychological response to having their blood drawn. Asafa Powell from Jamaica for many years was the world record holder for the 100-meters, the world's fastest human, in Beijing said that he was affected by having his blood drawn before the 100-meters there. Not it may only be psychological, but it's a valid explanation. Some people don't like it and it has an effect upon them," "I think you got to take it a step at a time. And I don't think you can just walk in and take over the sport and implement Olympic caliber testing by USADA all at the same time. I think you have to compromise, you have to look at the specifics of boxing and you have to develop a program that is tailor-made for the sport of boxing, so I suggested 5 days out because there are certain things you can do to more easily circumvent as opposed to using the 14-day or the 24-day out as a cut-off for testing. I would recommend 5 days, but if you're hungry a half loaf of bread is better than none and I think you need to compromise. And I don't think it's ever going to be perfect," "Manny Pacquiao has now came up and said that he is willing to do the testing all the way up to 14 days before, my opinion is, they need to make this fight. Let's get it on. That's a compromise that should be accepted by Mayweather and all parties concerned need to understand just because Manny Pacquiao agreed to do the USADA testing and do what Shane Mosley and Floyd Mayweather did doesn't necessarily mean they're clean." "People that are determined to cheat could still use drugs and like I say, you can sign the fight today and start testing five weeks before the fight, who's to say they're not both using anabolic steroids for months? For months and months that you do a series of cycles of steroids you can still maintain that benefit and improvement in performance. We don't live in a perfect world, I think you need to compromise. I would like to see, for the benefit of all those in the world of boxing, I would like to see Floyd Mayweather agree to a 14-day drug testing that Manny Pacquiao said he would comply with and let's bring this fight." "For whatever claims they said about Floyd being drug testing for the Mosley fight, he was tested 19 days before the fight. Let's get real here. Floyd's saying my way or the highway, well that's BS. It's got to be a compromise and there's never going 100% (accurate test) and we need to acknowledge that and I think Manny has made an effort to compromise and move to Floyd's direction and I think Manny needs to be applauded for that." source "That's why him and my nephew never fought, because he didn't want to take the test himself. He said he would take a test five days out," said Roger Mayweather. "Who in the hell would do that? Aint no such thing as taking a test five days out. You can take the test the day before the fight, that's it. The rest of that stuff don't mean nothing." source

15y ago

Reloaded

What hes saying does make sense If they are going to start blood testing.....testing those few weeks before a fight is useless.... You need to be testing the people anytime you like any day of the 365 days of the year The timing doesnt apply to boxers because they dont train intensely until in camp they dont train in cycles year round like track stars or swimmers ,,,, the catching power of OST is not the aim or its strong point , the deterrent power of OST is very strong , thats why it will work with fighters ,, A fighter under the spot light of OST in a huge fight will not take the risk of being detected if they were to use PEDS during camp , and to use Peds while not in camp would do nothing for him .

15y ago

Bee_Keepz

“Is it suspicious the way (Pacquiao) has gained so much lean muscle mass while retaining and even seemingly improving his power and speed? Yes,” Conte says. “It is highly suspicious. , to the standard urine testing that, in my opinion, is worthless. He said Tiger Woods was more suspicious than Pacquiao; I remember that interview. source Victor Conte - "I would not want to single-out Manny Pacquiao because I have no direct evidence that he has used any performance enhancing drugs. That being said, I think we need to be suspicious of everybody at the elite level. What he's doing, to go from the lower weight divisions up to many divisions higher and maintain his speed and power- is that suspicious? Yes it is. But are there people throughout Olympic or professional sports history that are just genetic freaks and have a mindset that's powerful, and I guess the question is, 'Could you do what Manny Pacquiao does?' or 'Could other fighters do what Manny Pacquiao does and be clean?', I believe with hard-tech nutrition and training and these other available methods like this intermittent hypoxic training which has some of the benefits, the same benefits you would receive from using EPO, I believe it can be done." "I don't think Manny should be singled-out until some specific information comes forward indicating that he has used performance enhancing drugs." "I was contacted by people associated with Floyd Mayweather when they were having the judge arbitrate how to come up with a (drug testing) program and what I recommended and I clearly understand Manny Pacquiao is not the first athlete that has had an adverse psychological response to having their blood drawn. Asafa Powell from Jamaica for many years was the world record holder for the 100-meters, the world's fastest human, in Beijing said that he was affected by having his blood drawn before the 100-meters there. Not it may only be psychological, but it's a valid explanation. Some people don't like it and it has an effect upon them," "I think you got to take it a step at a time. And I don't think you can just walk in and take over the sport and implement Olympic caliber testing by USADA all at the same time. I think you have to compromise, you have to look at the specifics of boxing and you have to develop a program that is tailor-made for the sport of boxing, so I suggested 5 days out because there are certain things you can do to more easily circumvent as opposed to using the 14-day or the 24-day out as a cut-off for testing. I would recommend 5 days, but if you're hungry a half loaf of bread is better than none and I think you need to compromise. And I don't think it's ever going to be perfect," "Manny Pacquiao has now came up and said that he is willing to do the testing all the way up to 14 days before, my opinion is, they need to make this fight. Let's get it on. That's a compromise that should be accepted by Mayweather and all parties concerned need to understand just because Manny Pacquiao agreed to do the USADA testing and do what Shane Mosley and Floyd Mayweather did doesn't necessarily mean they're clean." "People that are determined to cheat could still use drugs and like I say, you can sign the fight today and start testing five weeks before the fight, who's to say they're not both using anabolic steroids for months? For months and months that you do a series of cycles of steroids you can still maintain that benefit and improvement in performance. We don't live in a perfect world, I think you need to compromise. I would like to see, for the benefit of all those in the world of boxing, I would like to see Floyd Mayweather agree to a 14-day drug testing that Manny Pacquiao said he would comply with and let's bring this fight." "For whatever claims they said about Floyd being drug testing for the Mosley fight, he was tested 19 days before the fight. Let's get real here. Floyd's saying my way or the highway, well that's BS. It's got to be a compromise and there's never going 100% (accurate test) and we need to acknowledge that and I think Manny has made an effort to compromise and move to Floyd's direction and I think Manny needs to be applauded for that." Continue reading on Examiner.com: 'I was contacted by Mayweather's people': Exclusive Interview with Victor Conte part 2 - National Filipino Sports | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/filipino-sports-in-national/i-was-contacted-by-mayweather-s-people-exclusive-interview-with-victor-conte-part-2#ixzz1MdGmFB7U

15y ago

AssasinKing

15y ago

Reloaded

15y ago

Medved

So once the Feds touch them they become Angels? The point im getting at is this: Working with Victor Conte is creepy. He is capable of doing things to your body without you even knowing fully whats going on. Screw the Pac/May stuff.. Conte and his new troupe should be the ones being scrutinized and tested. Exactly, theres been lots of times when the Government arrests then hires hackers to work for them. What do the hackers do? They use their new found resources to even hack bigger things. Theres been a few high cases involving hackers/credit card fraudsters who were working for the FBI and then got re-arrested on the same charges because they didnt stop what they were doing. Its like having a snitch working for the Cops, the guy sells/does drugs and the cops know about it, they just want him to tell on the big guys. Does it mean because snitches work for the cops that they stopped doing anything bad? This has been going around for as long as human kind been around. Its all about taking the risk. The government and these athletic commisions didnt hire him because hes a nice guy, they hired him because he knows how to beat their tests. Why do you think fighters/athletes still work with him?

15y ago

pasawayako

I feel sorry for them(flomos) because conte are exposing their idol floyd ost is just a scam. Hahahaha.

15y ago

Elotero

But they do. So once the Feds touch them they become Angels? The point im getting at is this: Working with Victor Conte is creepy. He is capable of doing things to your body without you even knowing fully whats going on. Screw the Pac/May stuff.. Conte and his new troupe should be the ones being scrutinized and tested.

15y ago

brick_wall

the usada testing for floyd-shane was definitely better than nsac's even if they cutoff at 18 days. the problem with flomos is that they're acting like their idol did random testing or he's done something that was a difference maker where in fact what they did was far from effective. i won't even be surprised if floyd knew about the 18 day cutoff...as they were friendly with Tygart.:baby:

15y ago

Elotero

actually, some of the best security experts were once hackers. Thats exactly what I mean. Its a double edged sword. Sometimes it works out, and sometimes you get an Alberto Gonzales situation.

15y ago

Bee_Keepz

I agree. This is like the FBI hiring hackers as security testers. If you don't want to be associated with cheating or doping, stay as far away from Conte as you can. But they do.

15y ago

p4pchamp8077

I agree. This is like the FBI hiring hackers as security testers. If you don't want to be associated with cheating or doping, stay as far away from Conte as you can. actually, some of the best security experts were once hackers.

15y ago

Elotero

Where all the Flomos go? lol. My view is this, Conte is the father of modern day doping. He is the worlds expert on this. He made his millions and connections juicing athletes. Do I think hes innocent? Hell no, this is all a ploy by him to get the heads up so he knows how to cycle his athletes. Not only is he now working for these doping agencies but he's also working with athletes. All these Atheletes dont hire him for his training know how, they hire him so he pumps them full of drugs to make them better, do they know what they take? Nope, he doesnt tell them. Because they can just say " I dont know what I took, he gave them to me and I passed all the tests" Once a substance is banned his scientists change the strain until it gets banned again, its a cat and mouse game. Boxing/All world class Athletes need to have REAL testing done by Independant Commisions and Companies that are Neutral and done have connections to athletes. You cant have a guy running the tests when he's been working with the Athletes and the commision, its collusion. You either make everyone take the same tests or none of them, you cant single out people just for fun. Conte needs to be highly monitored and banned from working with Athletes. I agree. This is like the FBI hiring hackers as security testers. If you don't want to be associated with cheating or doping, stay as far away from Conte as you can.

15y ago

p4pchamp8077

So none of the 3 major sports leagues in america use WADA, and yet, you have no problems with your favorite athletes in those sports not doing their tests, but you want some one dimensional, ordinary Asian man who fights weight drained, old, shot cherry picked come forward brawlers with no skill to take them? Weird. Who says i don't have issues with other sports doing the proper tests? Baseball still has a black mark on it from legendary players who have turned out to be cheating frauds. All sports are plagued by PEDs, including boxing but they'd rather have athletes cheat their way on to the record books to keep the fans interested. Baseball knew about the ongoing drug usage for years and didn't do anything until they were forced to when the whole Balco scandal hit the fan. I'm sure you world revolves around Manny but reality doesn't. PEDs are a big issue in all sports and it don't matter if your Asian or a congressman, everyone is suspect. Take the fuckin tests.

15y ago

MindBat

you know whats a trip is that the king of peds and roids is saying that it wasnt random and stuff yet pac is still scared to sign the contract wow Exactly. With that endorsement from Conte, Arum and Freddie should now be on the phone demanding the fight be made right now. Manny "agreed to everything" right?

15y ago

MindBat

Flomos hates this thread cause they know it's the truth!!! Well ... How about something none of the Pactards on this thread have thought to ask ... "Why don't we find out what USADA has to say about this before jumping to conclusions?" After all, we don't recall Conte being present while both Shane and Floyd were being tested now, do we? I said it before: Pactards and Manny should've been jumping for joy when they found out the testing for Shane and Floyd was stopped 18 days out instead of the required 14 and 7 days Manny had requested.

15y ago

Medved

15y ago

The_Evil_12

From what I could conclude from the article, Conte is saying that the USADA testing protocol for the Mosley-Mayweather fight had holes in it that prevented it from being a true deterrent of PED use. However, I doubt Conte would say that the current testing is anywhere near as good as the USADA testing in the Mosley-Mayweather fight. At the end of the day, the current testing methods utilized by boxing cannot be measured up to USADA's testing in the Mosley-Mayweather fight. Something is better than nothing...

15y ago

IMDAZED

Try what again? Never said it was a u.s. sport. Just mentioned how the lot of you love to tout america as the place to be where one makes their names in international competition for various sports. Baseball and basketball included with boxing. Ok...so it's not a U.S. sport therefore it's not just subject to U.S. rules. Perfect.

15y ago