Ortiz Berto. I scored a DRAW live and watching on HBO

I could care less what ESPN guy or ringside person scored it for Berto, he lost that fight by a wide margin, and you can add those crappy ripoff points to that as well, so he won even wider if he hadn't been denied the round 1 knockdown and the point taken off. The sooner we change boxing judging the better because it is in a sad sad place right now.

http://www.examiner.com/boxing-in-national/from-genius-to-moron-predicting-ortiz-s-huge-upset-then-botching-scorecard "It’s funny but Dan Rafael of ESPN.com is getting a lot of derision for scoring the Ortiz-Berto fight in favor of Berto by a score of 113-112. Now, I can’t say I agree with this (watching this from "couchside," I had "Vicious" winning this fight going away) but Rafael was not the only one who had Berto winning this fight. Ron Borges, Michael Marley and Peter Mooney (who covered this bout for our website) all had Berto on top. For whatever it’s worth, two of the official ringside judges had that fight awfully close. Julie Lederman scored it 114-111 for Ortiz and Glen Feldman had it 114-112 for the new champion, which means that if you take away the knockdowns, they basically had this fight even, for the most part..."

"While Berto seemed to have battled his way back into the contest, in the end it was a matter of too little, too late. Ortiz prevailed on the scorecards of all three ringside judges. Dr. Clark Sammartino had it a whopping 115-110, Julie Lederman 114-111, and Glen Feldman 114-112. Most ringside scribes had it much closer than that, and a sizeable proportion of press row narrowly favored Berto." George Kimball FTW +1

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/3108/vlcsnap2011041822h54m34.jpg /thread

Honestly, nothing about this fight remotely says draw. None of the judges saw it as a draw. All of the judges scored it for one fighter. The punch output was in favor of Ortiz. The landed punches and percentages was in favor of Ortiz. Ortiz won his rounds in bigger fashion. The fans saw it as a clear win. The commentators saw it as a fight Ortiz won. The knockdowns favored Ortiz. Even with an unwarranted foul and a knockdown not being scored, Ortiz still looked in control. He kept the fight at his pace and literally made the fight. Berto felt and looked defeated after the fight. Ortiz knew he won and so did Berto. While none of these single things point to a winner, when they all do, it's obvious who won the fight. The scorecard is ALMOST secondary.

Ortiz won at least 8 rounds, and maybe 9. Berto spent the large majority of that fight inactive and getting his ass kicked. agreed, how anyone oculd score it a draw is beyond be even with the point deduction. Berto held and also spent alot of time on the ropes getting punched and landed the occasional shot...Ortiz was determined and let his hands go.

"While Berto seemed to have battled his way back into the contest, in the end it was a matter of too little, too late. Ortiz prevailed on the scorecards of all three ringside judges. Dr. Clark Sammartino had it a whopping 115-110, Julie Lederman 114-111, and Glen Feldman 114-112. Most ringside scribes had it much closer than that, and a sizeable proportion of press row narrowly favored Berto. That's George Kimball http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/articles/12421-he-was-indeed-qviciousq-ortiz-hammers-bertokimball-ringside It is obvious that Berto did not win and press row is full of idiots if they favored Berto. Even by the slightest hair.

"While Berto seemed to have battled his way back into the contest, in the end it was a matter of too little, too late. Ortiz prevailed on the scorecards of all three ringside judges. Dr. Clark Sammartino had it a whopping 115-110, Julie Lederman 114-111, and Glen Feldman 114-112. Most ringside scribes had it much closer than that, and a sizeable proportion of press row narrowly favored Berto. That's George Kimball http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/articles/12421-he-was-indeed-qviciousq-ortiz-hammers-bertokimball-ringside

Agreed. Time to change your sig: Ortiz beats Berto therefore Ortiz = GOAT. True. Although, Maidana beat Ortiz and Khan beat Maidana and Prescott beat Khan. Damn, Prescott is GOAT!!!!

berto didnt even think he won

It was a close fight but Ortiz clearly won for me. Ortiz didn't win no 8 rounds like some people say. The fight was pretty even with Ortiz just wanting it more than Berto that night and Berto trying to be macho man on the ropes giving rounds away. When Berto boxed, he was winning, when Berto fought, he was losing. But I think Berto fighting was the best thing he could have done because that's what made the fight so exciting, a combination of boxing and fighting. I actually thought even when Berto boxed he was losing... I felt Ortiz won almost every exchange, except the few that rocked him... but it seemed everytime Ortiz landed flush on Berto he stumbled back.

If you had this fight a draw you need to stick to watching the fight and not scoring. Even the horrible judges had Ortiz winning. TS: "Fight was a draw." Every single poster on this board: "You got to be kidding, Ortiz won comfortably, no possible way can you have a draw." TS: "Whatever, the whole world's wrong and I'm right." Get some critical thinking skills, dude.

Berto got his ass kicked and that's how I write the fight up, and how I saw it. But somehow I still score a Draw. :boxing:

It was a close fight but Ortiz clearly won for me. Ortiz didn't win no 8 rounds like some people say. The fight was pretty even with Ortiz just wanting it more than Berto that night and Berto trying to be macho man on the ropes giving rounds away. When Berto boxed, he was winning, when Berto fought, he was losing. But I think Berto fighting was the best thing he could have done because that's what made the fight so exciting, a combination of boxing and fighting.

Judging is subjective. There really is no right and wrong. This is simply not true. Judging a fight is objective. In scoring a fight live as a professional does, they are given slack because they may miss things because of angles, etc. but the fact is that there is a right and a wrong way to score a fight. We know the rules, and with our eyes we can score accordingly. The only way a person could watch this fight as you have, twice on television with 360 camera angles, slow motion replays, etc. is if you do not know how to score a fight. You have several advantages over an official judge that you are using so your card should not look anything like theirs, it should be more appropriate to what actually happened in the ring and what happened is Berto took a pasting and lost 9 rounds.

But official judges suck, so you're trying to justify your scorecard as not sucking because of official judging is a flawed argument. There's literally no way a scorecard like the one you gave us can be justified or correct. This reminds me of when Burner had Kotelnik-Alexander 10-2 for Alexander, rewatched it, and had it 7-5 Kotelnik. You need to watch this fight again. Agreed. Time to change your sig: Ortiz beats Berto therefore Ortiz = GOAT.

Judging is subjective. There really is no right and wrong.

Round 1 A fast paced feeling out round. Berto goes down from what looked like an Ortiz left hand behind the head, the referee rules it a slip. A flurry of punches including vicious uppercuts from Ortiz sends Berto slumping into a corner with a minute left in the round. That is no slip. Berto is up quickly though. A crafty Berto avoids serious follow up from Ortiz and even lands a big shot of his own. Good opening round. ~Ortiz 10-8 (All three official judges score it 10-8 for Ortiz) Round 2 Berto seems to still be recuperating for the first minute of the second round. Berto using the whole ring to avoid an aggressive Ortiz. A big right hand catches Ortiz on the chin moving forward while punching and Ortiz goes down, only his glove breaking his fall. Berto responds to Ortiz by scoring a knockdown of his own! Ortiz up quickly. Great start to the fight. ~Berto 10-8 (All three official judges score it 10-8 for Berto) Round 3 A very aggressive Ortiz swarms Berto. It's a slugfest and they are trading punches. Ortiz literally snarls when he punches and Berto continually invites him to the inside for exchanges that Ortiz gets the better of in this round. ~Ortiz 10-9 (All three official judges score it 10-9 for Ortiz) Round 4 "Stay off the ropes", they are telling Berto between rounds. The fighters trade shots early in the round and Berto is right back on the ropes where Ortiz is abusing him with a variety of punches. Berto invites him in and Ortiz obliges him by punching him. ~Ortiz 10-9 (All three official judges score it 10- for Ortiz) Round 5 Ortiz warned between rounds by referee for punching behind head. More boxing from Berto to start the round until Ortiz backs him to the ropes and a similar pattern emerges of Berto inviting Ortiz to hit him. Which he does, often. ~Ortiz 10-9 (All three official judges score it 10-9 for Ortiz) Round 6 Berto's corner is urging him to box and stay off the ropes. Slow start to the round. Berto looks determined to stay off the ropes and hit Ortiz in the middle of the ring which he does with a devastating right hand that sends Ortiz slamming to the canvas. Incredibly he rises at "three", though dazed. Berto swarms a hurt Ortiz and lands a huge right hand. With only seconds left in the round and the referee getting in a position to stop the fight, a right-left-left combo to the head from Ortiz sends Berto tumbling backwards and down. Berto rises very quickly. Early candidate for Round of the Year. ~10-10 Even (One official judge scores 10-10, the other two score 10-9 for Berto) Round 7 Grueling round with some holding developing. Berto lands a huge right hand that Ortiz walks through as they trade power shots. Berto having a good round and he does enough to win it by staying off the ropes and avoiding Ortiz's fight. ~Berto 10-9 (All three official judges score it 10-9 for Ortiz) Round 8 Berto using his boxing skills to outwork Ortiz. Both fighters seems a bit tired. Ortiz warned by referee for hitting behind the head. ~Berto 10-9 (All three official judges score it 10-9 for Berto) Round 9 "Be ballsy!", they tell Ortiz between rounds. Pace slowing down despite some decent fairly even exchanges. Ortiz warned again for a shot behind Berto's head. Berto wins the round by controlling the tempo of the round and fighting his fight. ~Berto 10-9 (Two official judges score 10-9 for Ortiz, one judge scores 10-9 for Berto) Round 10 "All you have to do is box, it's so simple", they implore Berto between rounds. Another shot behind the head costs Ortiz a point and it's more from Berto selling it than Ortiz doing it flagrantly. Despite the best efforts of Berto to box as instructed, Ortiz takes the round on effective aggression though he loses a point for punching behind the head. ~Ortiz 9-9 (All three official judges score it 10-9 for Ortiz and remove one point from Ortiz for a foul) Round 11 An aggressive Ortiz gets a tired Berto back where he wants him with Berto's back to the ropes and he punches away with fury like earlier in the fight. Uppercuts are landing through the guard of Berto as Berto again beckons Ortiz in. When Berto tries to box, Ortiz either outboxes him or out punches him. Showcase round for Ortiz. ~Ortiz 10-9 (All three official judges score it 10-9 for Ortiz) Round 12 They are telling Ortiz in his corner that he is far ahead on the cards going into 12th round, by as many as five points. Berto is being told he needs a knockout to win. Fighters actually embrace to start the final round. Berto is getting in some potshots against Ortiz, who seems to fight the last round like he thinks he has the fight won but does not want to be accused of taking the last round off. He basically gives the round to Berto. ~Berto 10-9 (Two judges score 10-9 for Berto, one scored 10-9 Ortiz) KO Digest Final Score: 113-113, a draw! KO Digest scored the fight a draw live and scored it a draw when watching it again the next day on HBO. That is why at the post fight press conference we specifically asked Ortiz about the scores and whether or not he was certain of victory after the final bell. Apparently he was, saying, "I was certain of the victory, I don't know the scores. But in my mind and my heart a fighter always knows whether he won or lost. I didn't see it close and I knew I had pulled off the victory." LINK http://fitefansho.blogspot.com/2011/04/ortiz-w12-berto-round-by-round-scoring.html A draw?...a fucking draw?? Log off NOW, Flomo.

Opinions are like a-holes but only in the 7th do I completely deviate from official scoring. Oh well, that's how I saw the round. In each and every other round of the fight, there is at least one OFFICIAL judge who sees the round as I do. Ortiz won IMO, but my scoring reflects a draw with that point taken away. But official judges suck, so you're trying to justify your scorecard as not sucking because of official judging is a flawed argument. There's literally no way a scorecard like the one you gave us can be justified or correct. This reminds me of when Burner had Kotelnik-Alexander 10-2 for Alexander, rewatched it, and had it 7-5 Kotelnik. You need to watch this fight again.

lol...........i gave ortiz 9 rounds berto didnt do nothing first half of the fight or the second half come on mate watch it again