A Good Hard Look at the Three Amigos

I, uhh...my God...these message boards are shot. Marquez lost to Chris John=okay, yes he did. No one's beaten Chris John yet, though. Marquez had to cheat to beat a shot MAB= how so? MAB was deducted a point, the point didn't make a difference of where the fight was going. The fight wasn't close. JMM ducked Morales= when? JMM ducked Morales again= when? JMM drinks pee= I'll give you that. 1/5 I'm not arguing that JMM should be above the other two. All I'm asking is why he's a notch below them, seriously. I ask questions like this all the time to see if I can learn something new about the sport. :thinking: marquez ducking moreales is the dumbest thing dude ever wrote (2x). that's saying a lot too.

-- marquez lost to chris john -- marquez had to cheat to beat a shot MAB -- marquez ducked morales -- marquez ducked morales again -- marquez drinks pee = marquez sucks. I, uhh...my God...these message boards are shot. Marquez lost to Chris John=okay, yes he did. No one's beaten Chris John yet, though. Marquez had to cheat to beat a shot MAB= how so? MAB was deducted a point, the point didn't make a difference of where the fight was going. The fight wasn't close. JMM ducked Morales= when? JMM ducked Morales again= when? JMM drinks pee= I'll give you that. 1/5 I'm not arguing that JMM should be above the other two. All I'm asking is why he's a notch below them, seriously. I ask questions like this all the time to see if I can learn something new about the sport. :thinking:

Barrera out shines both Morales and Marquez are basically equal Yeah. but my question is why? :thinking:

Serious question: Why isn't JMM ranked equally as high as MAB and EM? What have they done that outshines JMM's accomplishments? I ask this because whenever these three names come up, people pretty much agree that EM and MAB are a notch higher. People mention that they were in wars and that's why but to be fair that isn't JMM's fault if he's a technician or not involved in big exchanges when fighting. Barrera out shines both Morales and Marquez are basically equal

Serious question: Why isn't JMM ranked equally as high as MAB and EM? What have they done that outshines JMM's accomplishments? I ask this because whenever these three names come up, people pretty much agree that EM and MAB are a notch higher. People mention that they were in wars and that's why but to be fair that isn't JMM's fault if he's a technician or not involved in big exchanges when fighting.

If JMM wins a 4 divisional title, he surpasses them.

When you look at the resume Barrera is clearly #1.

Juan Manuel Marquez: 52-5-1-38 KOs Notable Wins: Micheal Katsidis TKO 9 Juan Diaz I TKO 9 Joel Casamayor TKO 11 Rocky Juarez UD 12 Marco Antonio Barrera UD 12 Orlando Salido UD 12 Derrick Gainer TD 7 Manuel Medina TKO 7 Robbie Peden TKO 10 Agapito Sanchez UD 12 Notable Draw: Manny Pacquiao D 12 Losses: Floyd Mayweather UD 12 Manny Pacquiao SD 12 Chris John UD 12 Freddie Norwood UD 12 Javier Duran DQ (first pro fight) Notes: John & Norwood decisions could have easily gone either way. Both Pacquiao decisions were controversial; Many say JMM won both fights. In fights vs Pacquiao, he has won the majority of rounds. Mayweather failed to make weight and was visibly 2 weight classes bigger than Marquez on fight night. Has never been stopped. Winner of the 2009 Ring Magazine FOTY vs Juan Diaz Erik Morales: 51-7-0-35 KOs Notable Wins: Manny Pacquiao UD 12 Carlos Hernandez UD 12 Jesus Chavez UD 12 Paulie Ayala UD 12 Kevin Kelley TKO 7 Marco Antonio Barrera I SD 12 Wayne McCullough UD 12 Junior Jones TKO 4 Daniel Zaragoza KO 11 Losses: Marcos Maidana MD 12 David Diaz UD 12 Manny Pacquiao II KO 3 Manny Pacquiao III TKO 10 Zahir Raheem UD 12 Marco Antonio Barrera II UD 12 Marco Antonio Barrera III MD 12 Notes: The last fighter to have defeated Manny Pacquiao. Last two decision losses (vs Maidana & Diaz) were controversial. Won 2000 Ring FOTY vs MAB Marco Antonio Barrera: 67-7-0-44 KOs Notable Wins: Rocky Juarez I UD 12 Rocky Juarez II SD 12 Robbie Peden UD 12 Erik Morales II UD 12 Erik Morales III MD 12 Paulie Ayala TKO 10 Kevin Kelley TKO 4 Johnny Tapia UD 12 Naseem Hamed UD 12 Kennedy McKinney TKO 12 Agapito Sanchez UD 12 Losses: Amir Khan TD 5 Manny Pacquiao II UD 12 Juan Manuel Marquez UD 12 Manny Pacquiao I TKO 11 Erik Morales I SD 12 Junior Jones II UD 12 Junior Jones I TKO 5 Notes: Won 2004 Ring FOTY vs Erik Morales Salido and Sanchez were not good wins for Marquez. and yet you overlook Barrera's wins over Fana(which is looking better and better in hindsight), and Morales' wins over Espadasx2 and In-Jin Chi.

Marquez was side stepped by MAB and Morales early in their careers. IMO there is no order, great fighters that fought great competition of their time. Unless Marquez does something exceptional cause he looks like the one with the most gas in his tank and is one of today's top fighters. Also his style brings him less wear and tear than the other two I say Marquez is greater because I enjoy his style of fighting, to me hes a master in that ring. But I agree man they are all great and these 3 fighters are all masters in their own right.

Marquez was side stepped by MAB and Morales early in their careers. IMO there is no order, great fighters that fought great competition of their time. Unless Marquez does something exceptional cause he looks like the one with the most gas in his tank and is one of today's top fighters. Also his style brings him less wear and tear than the other two

Marquez is not above Morales and Barrera in any way. If you think he is above them, you must be new to boxing.

Yeah, I guess. We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this Morales-JMM-Barrera discussion. I just can't see it any other way. I actaully think Mayweather has a better resume than Morales. I thought that was a given until I saw the thread :lol1: Morales has the better single wins though obviously. But I understand what you're saying using this comparison. good discussion though. thx

resume is key for me as well, however, there's exceptions to every rule. kinda like floyd morales, morales has a greater resume than floyd i think Yeah, I guess. We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this Morales-JMM-Barrera discussion. I just can't see it any other way. I actaully think Mayweather has a better resume than Morales. I thought that was a given until I saw the thread :lol1: Morales has the better single wins though obviously. But I understand what you're saying using this comparison.

Barrera and Morales have the better wins. JMM is still a great fighter though.

Other things are to be considered, of course. But for me resume is the key criteria for greatness. But people have different criteria I guess. resume is key for me as well, however, there's exceptions to every rule. kinda like floyd morales, morales has a greater resume than floyd i think

;10364609']Skill wise, Marquez is better than both of them. Resume wise, you gotta give it to Barrera. Legacy wise, you gotta give it to Morales. All 3 of them are easily in the top 10 greatest Mexican fighters of all time. Do you? I don't think it's a clear thing. Morales has a better resume than Barrera IMO.

I had a draw pac-jmm 1 and pac by the kd in part 2 (one point) An argument can be made also that JMM fought the most versatile and well rounded pac of everyone in his second fight as well. He was a better fighter after all that time with Freddy. Plus, pac left no doubt in the second 2 morales fights. anyway, its a matter of opinion and an argument can really be made either way. I agree that JMM doesn't have the resume of those guys because of the aforementioned reasons, but like I said in the Floyd-Morales resume thread, a better resume doesn't mean a greater fighter per se. I think this is another of those cases. Other things are to be considered, of course. But for me resume is the key criteria for greatness. But people have different criteria I guess.

Skill wise, Marquez is better than both of them. Resume wise, you gotta give it to Barrera. Legacy wise, you gotta give it to Morales. All 3 of them are easily in the top 10 greatest Mexican fighters of all time.

1. Marquez 2. Morales 3. Barrera This is what the history books will say.

He performed better overall if you consider all of their fights Vs. Pacqiauo. But other factors are the reasons for that in my view. Marquez was much more game on both occasions that Morales and Barrera were when they got destroyed (except obviously Pac-Barrera 1) However, Morales-Pac 1 I feel Morales performed much better than Marquez either time IMO. In that fight I had Morales a clear winner, close but clear. I struggle to find an argument for Pacqiauo beating Morales the first time. As opposed to Marquez, the first fight I scored a draw and the 2nd fight I felt he won but could have gone either way IMO and was much closer than Morales-Pac 1. Yeah it's true he has never been decisively beaten. I felt John edged him, and Norwood? Meh. But even with this it still doesn't mean much to me considering I just feel Morales and Barrera's resume are much better than Marquez'. This could well be to the fact he was overlooked by many, for a long time due to being in the shadow of others, but that's just unfortunate on his part, unfortunately. All this aside the main thing to me is for whatever the reasoning may be Marquez' resume just isn't as good as either Morales or Barrera. And for that reason I have Morales and Barrera significantly greater than Marquez. Atleast in my book. I had a draw pac-jmm 1 and pac by the kd in part 2 (one point) An argument can be made also that JMM fought the most versatile and well rounded pac of everyone in his second fight as well. He was a better fighter after all that time with Freddy. Plus, pac left no doubt in the second 2 morales fights. anyway, its a matter of opinion and an argument can really be made either way. I agree that JMM doesn't have the resume of those guys because of the aforementioned reasons, but like I said in the Floyd-Morales resume thread, a better resume doesn't mean a greater fighter per se. I think this is another of those cases.