where do you draw the line between skill and athleticism

Because they are, being fast and strong for example is not a skill, skill is a learned attribute. that's what non athletic people say

It's interesting comparing skills vs athleticism. When I think of it I think a good example is Andre Ward and Andre Dirrell. Dirrell is much more athletic than Ward, in the way he can move around the ring and the way he can avoid puches with his athleticism alone and not use boxing skills. Ward of the other hand; probably the superior fighter, isn't gifted with that athleticism but you can see his skills, like defence and much more refined and conventional. You athleticism can decline but your skills will stay with you forever. head butting without getting disqualifed is an art

It's interesting comparing skills vs athleticism. When I think of it I think a good example is Andre Ward and Andre Dirrell. Dirrell is much more athletic than Ward, in the way he can move around the ring and the way he can avoid puches with his athleticism alone and not use boxing skills. Ward of the other hand; probably the superior fighter, isn't gifted with that athleticism but you can see his skills, like defence and much more refined and conventional. You athleticism can decline but your skills will stay with you forever.

james toney is a great example amazing skills but questionable athleticism (especially now) but Roach even said that JT is the only guy he's met who doesnt need to train coz his skills were just so good... bernard is another good example... was never gifted with any amazing abilities such as power or speed (like Roy was)... but his skills and fundamentals are SO good that it doesnt matter skills and discipline - the best tools in boxing... if you've then been blessed with athletic gifts too then your on your way to becoming a star poor paulie - the guys got mad skills but he has no athletic gifts... less than your average guy in the punch department... he'll never be a superstar

To be a top level boxer, you would need a great deal of both athleticism and skill. As someone already mentioned, if you have more skill, you can coast when your athleticism has left you. Martinez has both.....he has more athleticism than most other boxers yet is very skillful and crafty. My boy Guerrero who is fighting on the card tonight is not as athletic as Katsidis for instance but he is a much better boxer. Katsidis imposes his will while Guerrero will pick him apart with precision.

Both have both. :boxing: Both are atheletic, Mayweather is skilled as a boxer. The difference is that once Mayweather's speed starts to leave him, he'll still be able to rely on his boxing ability, RJJ wasn't able to do this, once he lacked the superior athleticism late in his career his flaws became easy to exploit.