Martinez Belongs at 168

I you don't weigh 180+ on fight night, than you shouldn't be a SMW. You should move down to MW. The guy who started this thread has no clue. What about WW's? What's the typical fight night weight for WW's, below which you shouldn't be a WW?

bump.....................

Martinez vs Pirog Martinez vs Arthur Abraham Martinez vs Sturm Martinez vs Daniel Geale ( a fight i would love to see personally, but will never happen) are all good fights that can get made, particularly Pirog. I don't think MP has any business at all being in the ring with Martinez at a 154 limit. Unless Sergio is too drained from getting down there he will likely KO MP. That's because Manny won't have the advantage in hand speed and footspeed....they will be even, or maybe Martinez will be faster beause it's at a heavy weight for Manny and he may not be comfortable. Either way he is a fighter with handspeed, power, is also a SP and more importantly has elite footspeed. MP should be kept away from SM at all costs. He has no business in there with Martinez at 154 limit and certainly doesn't need to prove himself by doing so. That's why he and his team, Freddie etc should keep quiet whenever the topic of Martinez is bought up. Floyd should also not entertain a fight at 154. His reflexes have slowed too much, though i view it as a 50/50 fight because Floyd is about as tall as Sergio, has good reach and knows how to exploit the mistakes Martinez makes. Style wise it's a better match for him than for MP.

Martinez and Mayweather are actually the same size but Martinez has had to bulk up to make the higher weights. ummm.....no. Mayweather started at 130 and had many many fights there.....he's really only grown into his WW frame since the JMM fight. In between fights he doesn't weight more than 160 soaking wet, whereas Martinez is in the 180's btw fights. They most def are not the same size. MP and FMJ = the same size at this particular time.

Not only because of the possible matchups but physically he belongs at SMW even though he claims to be too small. He has no problem calling out Pacquiao even though he's really a 135lb fighter. I'm sure there are lots of 130 lb guys who walk around at Pacquiao's weight and cut around 15lb easy. Martinez at the 30 day weigh ins half way through camp weighs 176. He walks around in the 180's easy. http://www.boxingscene.com/30-day-weights-sergio-martinez-176-paul-williams-162--32192 Froch has says that inbetween fights he weighs in the low 170's Ward does not have a big build and i doubt he cuts any more thaen 10lbs Abraham is 2 inches shorter than Martinez and compared to Sergio to say that he is one dimensional is an understatement. He's 2" taller than LHW's Johnson, Cloud, Diaconu and i honestly doubt they are that much heavier than him. Not saying he is a LHW but he easily belongs at SMW. There is young talent and Martinez needs to fight MW's like Pirog, Golovkin, N'jikam who are deserving and i do think would be able to test him. He probably won't want to though because there isn't money in it. If not that then move up to SMW where he can get quality fights and money because he certianly is not undersized. I don't want to see him fight MW guys like Chavez or Lee who may have a little name recognition but are 2 or 3 classes below him. blah blah blah.....he is very natural at 160 and is willing to go to 54-55 for the right fight. What other 68 pounders do ypou think could p[hysically make 154 without looking like a corpse???

If there's some 168 pounders that weigh the same as Martinez, then tell those guys to go to 160. Martinez is the #3 p4p fighter with the bigger name. They should go down for him just like Martinez would go down for someone like Cotto.

this Thread makes absolutely NO SENSE! Martinez is just fine at 154-160 I don't see anybody at 154-160 beating Martinez though

Believe whatever you want, without putting in 2-3 hours of gym work daily to maintain their weight, they aren't within 20-30 pounds of the limit. Most fighters need/take a break from the gym at some point (perhaps after a fight), all it takes is 1 month out of the gym and they've gained 20-30 pounds because *their bodies are naturally bigger than the weight they maintain it at through rigorous boxing training/exercise. It's not even fat weight, it's just water weight, it's just that (finish sentence by rereading from point * above). When Ward talks about not having to cut weight and not doing anything drastic, it doesn't mean he stays at 168 year round, it means he'll lose the 10-20 pounds he's naturally gained comfortably and doesn't have to use sauna suits, go on extreme diets, take laxatives, pills, and the many other things used to lose weight, he can do it without that hassle. Boxers lose 5-12 pounds (of mostly water) daily in training camp, so shedding pounds is nothing (which is why you hear Roach and Ariza talking about having to keep Pacquiao's calorie intake high). Has 168 been that rich in history that Ward would choose to fight there for his entire career, instead of getting down to 160? The AA being a smaller middleweight just shows you're thinking whatever you want on this. By Abraham's own admission he was killing himself to make 160 and can't make the limit anymore (at 5'9, while Martinez is 5'10, but the smaller middleweight is the one who can't actually make the middleweight limit anymore?). You've essentially convinced yourself of what you're talking about or are just instinctively defending your opinion, either way good luck with that. I had never heard AA say he was having trouble make MW, didn't know that. I still maintain that Ward and Froch have no significant weight advantage over Martinez though. Before i started posting Ward and Froch saying themselves that they don't cut weight people in here were saying they walk around at 190-200lbs. Martinez while being on the small side could easily fight SMW and find a top opponent with little to no disadvantage and get a very good payday. I am defending my opinion and while i may not be 100% on the mark it's far more accurate than the Martinez apologists saying a Pacquiao fight is more reasonable or that all the Super 6 guys are 195lb monsters. The hell are you talking about? I didn't say he couldn't take a punch. I said he has been down and can be stunned. Not an argument. Dzinziruk did it tonight. (He wobbled him and he's a natural 154 pounder.) Really? Name one SMW that's been a headliner for a major American PPV. Name one fighter that's in the SMW division that is recognized as a big star in boxing yet. Name one SMW that brings in million dollar gates on a regular basis in America. Don't worry.. I'll wait. That is reality. We've met before. He says he's not too familiar with you. Abraham is the only guy around the size of Martinez, but Martinez is still a CAREER LONG JR. MIDDLEWEIGHT. End of story. No one is forcing anyone to fight anyone. Re-****ing-lax. Do you understand how weight works? It's not just the number. It's how you carry it. He'd lose speed and power. That's kind of important in boxing when you're a boxer-puncher. You're right. The Klitschko's are destitute. Without American TV the world ceases to exist. for the 4th time i believe. He could find SMW opponents where he wouldn't have to gain any weight and wouldn't be at any significant disadvantage. Even if he did gain a few lbs he would turn into Tony Galento like you claim. His frame could handle 5 or 7 lbs without losing speed or endurance.

Financially it would make the most sense for him. No one at 147-154 with the exception of Cotto is looking his way and at 160 it's slim pickings. The Super 6 has made some stars and expanded brands and Bute is HUGE in Canada. If he wants money and real challenges and to prove he is in fact the P4P best, he'd look into SMW.

First, he just barely got to 160. Second, nobody at 168 is calling out Martinez yet so it's not like he's refusing to fight anyone. Plus at the moment, NOBODY worth a damn is avaliable for Martinez at 168. The SMW guys are busy in the tourney and Lucian Bute has contract with Showtime and Martinez can't leave HBO due to Dibella's loyalty. Why would he move to 168 to fight nobody when he can stay at 160 at his comfortable weight? Because since some fighters keep moving up, everyone has to. Klitschko needs to fight Godzilla or he is a fraud.

martinez is a hypocrite.... he calls out guys 2 weight divisions lower, but refuses to move up to 168 lbs... First, he just barely got to 160. Second, nobody at 168 is calling out Martinez yet so it's not like he's refusing to fight anyone. Plus at the moment, NOBODY worth a damn is avaliable for Martinez at 168. The SMW guys are busy in the tourney and Lucian Bute has a 3 fight contract with Showtime. Martinez won't fight outside of HBO do to Dibella's loyalty. Why would he move to 168 to fight nobody when he can stay at 160 at his comfortable weight?

http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content9124.html Ward " I don't have to cut weight or do anything drastic" I can't find it for Froch because it was video (Maybe the Fight360 episodes) but he said the same thing. He walks around in the low 170's and hardly cuts any weight. AA is a smaller MW than Martinez So there is half the Super 6 that is Martinez's size. Kessler doesn't look any bigger than Froch or Ward Bute and Dirrell are essentialy LHW as i have said Believe whatever you want, without putting in 2-3 hours of gym work daily to maintain their weight, they aren't within 20-30 pounds of the limit. Most fighters need/take a break from the gym at some point (perhaps after a fight), all it takes is 1 month out of the gym and they've gained 20-30 pounds because *their bodies are naturally bigger than the weight they maintain it at through rigorous boxing training/exercise. It's not even fat weight, it's just water weight, it's just that (finish sentence by rereading from point * above). When Ward talks about not having to cut weight and not doing anything drastic, it doesn't mean he stays at 168 year round, it means he'll lose the 10-20 pounds he's naturally gained comfortably and doesn't have to use sauna suits, go on extreme diets, take laxatives, pills, and the many other things used to lose weight, he can do it without that hassle. Boxers lose 5-12 pounds (of mostly water) daily in training camp, so shedding pounds is nothing (which is why you hear Roach and Ariza talking about having to keep Pacquiao's calorie intake high). Has 168 been that rich in history that Ward would choose to fight there for his entire career, instead of getting down to 160? The AA being a smaller middleweight just shows you're thinking whatever you want on this. By Abraham's own admission he was killing himself to make 160 and can't make the limit anymore (at 5'9, while Martinez is 5'10, but the smaller middleweight is the one who can't actually make the middleweight limit anymore?). You've essentially convinced yourself of what you're talking about or are just instinctively defending your opinion, either way good luck with that.

I know exactly what you're talking about. Martinez was bent over going backwards caught a grazing punch that knocked him off balance. whats funny is that you're trying to use this as "evidence" that he can't take a MW punch, let alone SMW. Shows how untruthful you are. The hell are you talking about? I didn't say he couldn't take a punch. I said he has been down and can be stunned. Not an argument. Dzinziruk did it tonight. (He wobbled him and he's a natural 154 pounder.) As i'v demonstrated but your insane bias won't allow you to accept is that half the Super 6 fighters don't cut weight or rehydrated. Martinez is the same size. Reality, the trinity, the trinity, reality. Say hello to eachother. Claiming he wouldn't make huge money against SMW is as absurd as the rest of your claims. Really? Name one SMW that's been a headliner for a major American PPV. Name one fighter that's in the SMW division that is recognized as a big star in boxing yet. Name one SMW that brings in million dollar gates on a regular basis in America. Don't worry.. I'll wait. That is reality. We've met before. He says he's not too familiar with you. Abraham is the only guy around the size of Martinez, but Martinez is still a CAREER LONG JR. MIDDLEWEIGHT. End of story. No one is forcing anyone to fight anyone. Re-****ing-lax. Do you understand how weight works? It's not just the number. It's how you carry it. He'd lose speed and power. That's kind of important in boxing when you're a boxer-puncher.

Is this where you resort to trying to laugh at my post because you can't make a valid argument? I bet it is. Regardless, Williams got him with an off balance shot that dropped him. Check the fight. Check Boxrec. Check anything. It happened. If this type of thing happened at Super Middleweight, he'd be behind the eight ball and outweighed. Brilliant. Jesus, you're insane. It's not JUST about weight. It's how well you could carry ADDITIONAL weight. Do you understand the difference? Ricky Hatton weighed 200 pounds in between fights. What is your point? De la Hoya ballooned up in between fights. How well did he do going up to Middleweight? Pacquiao met his limit at 147. At 154, he had a tougher time. Martinez is great at 160, but has fought the majority of his career at 154. He's had a total of four fights at Middleweight and has weighed no more than 159 1/2 at the weigh in. He rehydrated with natural weight. However, 168 pounders carry 168 pounds and then add the natural weight back. There's a HUGE difference. He would balloon up even more going up 8 pounds, then gain a few more pounds. They would be fighting at a natural weight. Once again, show me where Martinez forced anyone to take a fight with him. Ever. It's never happened. So, stop worrying about Pacquiao. He doesn't need to take the fight and I'd rather see both fight different people. But to suggest that Martinez HAS to move up is stupid. The money is at a lower weight. No one at 168 has even had a US PPV for Christ's sake. I know exactly what you're talking about. Martinez was bent over going backwards caught a grazing punch that knocked him off balance. whats funny is that you're trying to use this as "evidence" that he can't take a MW punch, let alone SMW. Shows how untruthful you are. As i'v demonstrated but your insane bias won't allow you to accept is that half the Super 6 fighters don't cut weight or rehydrated. Martinez is the same size. Reality, the trinity, the trinity, reality. Say hello to eachother. Claiming he wouldn't make huge money against SMW is as absurd as the rest of your claims.

You seem to be claiming that fights at SMW would not be big money fights. That's absurd. Williams dropped him lol be a shell of his former self lol he wouldnt have to get any bigger for guys like Ward Froch AA as they're the same size. Putting on 5,7 lbs to close the gap against huge SMW's like Bute or Dirrell would not effect him like you claim. you're too much. funny stuff though Martinez wants big money fights and has 2 options. Pacquiao or SMW's. He's okay calling out Pacquiao who is 25-30 lbs smaller but says he's to small to fight guys who are the same size (AA Froch Ward) or at most 10-15lbs heavier (Bute Dirrell) Sergio's hypocrisy i'm only pointing it out. for the third time - Iv provided links for Martinez's 176lb weight mid way through camp. It would only be hypocrisy if he was calling Pacquiao a coward for not fighting him while saying he's too small for 168. Like I said though, Martinez has stated he would understand completely if Pacquiao didn't want the fight due to the size difference. He wants to be #1 p4p so it's no ****ing surprise that he wants the other top two p4p fighters. Again, this is your hypocrisy, not his. Martinez has only weighted 176 with clothes and shoes (probably after a meal too). Also, he was probably carrying a little extra water weight that everyone loses as soon as they hit the gym. It's called glycogen.

Thanks for this. He's also talked about it in Fight Camp 360 i believe. Along with my Ward interview and looking at AA a small formwer MW that is half the Super 6 guys that weight the same as Martinez. Here's the source if anyone's interested. It comes with the actual audio interview. http://www.eatthemushroom.com/mag/article.asp?id=1502&catID=6 His views on Manny Pacquiao’s recent victory against Antonio Margarito when he was outweighed by seventeen pounds on the day of the fight: “Well they both made the weight the day before, so the fact that he was seventeen pounds heavier than him is insignificant. In fact, it’s a disadvantage. So to chuck that in the mix like it’s a big feat, I don’t think it is. I weighed 169 pounds when I fought Arthur Abraham. I weighed in at 168 the day before. Fighters at the top of the game that do the weight correctly are the best fighters in the world. The fact that Manny Pacquiao was a lot lighter is an advantage, not a disadvantage. But to answer your question, I just thought he was too fast, too skillful, punched too hard, and he had too much for Margarito. You know Margarito seemed to fade because he probably put so much weight on it showed how much he took off, and that’s why he faded after round five and six, and I think Manny Pacquiao went easy on him late.”

You seem to be claiming that fights at SMW would not be big money fights. That's absurd. Williams dropped him lol be a shell of his former self lol he wouldnt have to get any bigger for guys like Ward Froch AA as they're the same size. Putting on 5,7 lbs to close the gap against huge SMW's like Bute or Dirrell would not effect him like you claim. you're too much. funny stuff though Is this where you resort to trying to laugh at my post because you can't make a valid argument? I bet it is. Regardless, Williams got him with an off balance shot that dropped him. Check the fight. Check Boxrec. Check anything. It happened. If this type of thing happened at Super Middleweight, he'd be behind the eight ball and outweighed. Brilliant. Martinez wants big money fights and has 2 options. Pacquiao or SMW's. He's okay calling out Pacquiao who is 25-30 lbs smaller but says he's to small to fight guys who are the same size (AA Froch Ward) or at most 10-15lbs heavier (Bute Dirrell) Sergio's hypocrisy i'm only pointing it out. for the third time - Iv provided links for Martinez's 176lb weight mid way through camp. Jesus, you're insane. It's not JUST about weight. It's how well you could carry ADDITIONAL weight. Do you understand the difference? Ricky Hatton weighed 200 pounds in between fights. What is your point? De la Hoya ballooned up in between fights. How well did he do going up to Middleweight? Pacquiao met his limit at 147. At 154, he had a tougher time. Martinez is great at 160, but has fought the majority of his career at 154. He's had a total of four fights at Middleweight and has weighed no more than 159 1/2 at the weigh in. He rehydrated with natural weight. However, 168 pounders carry 168 pounds and then add the natural weight back. There's a HUGE difference. He would balloon up even more going up 8 pounds, then gain a few more pounds. They would be fighting at a natural weight. Once again, show me where Martinez forced anyone to take a fight with him. Ever. It's never happened. So, stop worrying about Pacquiao. He doesn't need to take the fight and I'd rather see both fight different people. But to suggest that Martinez HAS to move up is stupid. The money is at a lower weight. No one at 168 has even had a US PPV for Christ's sake.

Btw Froch only rehydrated 1 or 2 pounds for the Abraham fight. He said this in an interview when asked on his thoughts about Margarito outweighing Manny by 17 lbs. Thanks for this. He's also talked about it in Fight Camp 360 i believe. Along with my Ward interview and looking at AA a small formwer MW that is half the Super 6 guys that weight the same as Martinez.

martinez is a hypocrite.... he calls out guys 2 weight divisions lower, but refuses to move up to 168 lbs...

Then answer this... if Mayweather and Pacquiao can go for the money fights, why can't Martinez? They had advantages going into their big money fights. Why can't Martinez? He's getting up their and wants to go out with a big bang like they do. Why can't Martinez? Theoretically, he could go up to 168. But, he'd be a shell of himself. He'd lose his snap, he'd get winded with the new weight and would have to take a bigger shot then he's used to. Williams dropped him, Dzinziruk buckled him. Why should he risk it at this point? He's earned the right like the other big names in the sport to try and get paid. You seem to be claiming that fights at SMW would not be big money fights. That's absurd. Williams dropped him lol be a shell of his former self lol he wouldnt have to get any bigger for guys like Ward Froch AA as they're the same size. Putting on 5,7 lbs to close the gap against huge SMW's like Bute or Dirrell would not effect him like you claim. you're too much. funny stuff though That's not his hypocrisy. That's your hypocrisy. You're the one *****ing about Pacquiao being too small, but then you want Martinez to move up to super middleweight. Martinez has repeatedly stated he would understand completely if Pacquiao doesn't want the fight, but obviously he has to keep the possibility open since he'll never be #1 p4p without fighting the #1 p4p fighter. And as far as I know, no 168 pounder has called out Martinez yet so nobody can say he's dodging anyone. I personally would like him to move to 154 or 168. Doesn't matter to me. When Martinez moved up to middleweight to fight Williams, he gained 2 pounds (164 to 166). Then 1 more pound for Pavlik. Then 1 more pound for Williams rematch. And finally another 2 more this fight. What makes you think he'll be 179 pounds when the most he ever gained is 2 pounds between fights? And how come you don't assume the same for Pacquiao? Why doesn't he have to gain weight if he were to fight at 154? Martinez wants big money fights and has 2 options. Pacquiao or SMW's. He's okay calling out Pacquiao who is 25-30 lbs smaller but says he's to small to fight guys who are the same size (AA Froch Ward) or at most 10-15lbs heavier (Bute Dirrell) Sergio's hypocrisy i'm only pointing it out. for the third time - Iv provided links for Martinez's 176lb weight mid way through camp.