David Haye hatred? Justified?

Its a matter of opinion I agree it "should" matter more but beacuse of all the belts its easier for the best fighter in a division not to end up being a lineal champion. That's because most casual fans and most of the media buy into the bullshit alphabet belts and call their title holders world champions. But they are not world champions. By definition, there can only be one world champion in any division at a given time, and that is the lineal champion. No one should ever call anyone a world champion unless they are the lineal champion. And if boxing fans and the boxing media started to take that attitude, there would be far more financial pressure on the best boxers in each division to fight each other.

I think it depends upon the lineal title in question. If the lineal title of a division can be traced back 20 years then it's a meaningful thing to hold. But if it was vacant until the number 1 and number 2 guys in the division fought 6 months ago then I don't think it's all that important. That's the opposite of the truth. If the #1 and #2 fight each other, then it means there is no meaningful dispute about who is the real champion in that division. So it's the only title that matters, especially those circumstances. In fact it's when it goes back 20 years that you sometimes get weird anomalies. For instance, Erdei was the lineal Light Heavyweight champion for years and his lineal title at that point could be traced back more than 20 years, but no one considered Erdei to be even a top 3 fighter in his division at the time, never mind the #1 fighter. But he never fought anyone ranked in the top 3 in his division, he won the lineal title against a weak champion (Gonzalez), who won it against another weak champion (an old Michalczewski); and unfortunately for divisional clarity, the consensus #1 at the time (Roy Jones) never had any interest in fighting any of those weak lineal champions. That was actually partly The Ring's fault, because they crowned Jones as The Ring champion, against their own policy of basing their title on who the lineal champion was; and if they had been honest about the fact that a then prime Michalczewski was the lineal champion, there would have been far more demand for Jones to fight Michalczewski, and the fight would probably have happened. Briggs was another anomaly in that he was the world champion but was not the consensus #1 in his division - but he also didn't win the lineal title by beating the consensus #1 or #2 fighter, he won it be beating a very weak champion, whose linearity went back 20 years, in a fight many considered to be a robbery - but that wasn't nearly such a bad anomaly, because Lewis immediately fought and beat Briggs, and Lewis was the consensus #1, so the Briggs anomaly didn't really matter very much. Same story with Boldomir. He was an anomaly, his linearity went back many years, but it didn't really matter because he immediately lost his lineal title to the consensus #1. So when the #1 fights the #2 for the lineal title, that's when it matters most because that's when you get the most divisional clarity. When the linearity goes back 20 years, that's when anomalies are most likely to occur, and that's when the lineal champion and the consensus #1 in the division don't always coincide. Nevertheless, even in those situations, there can only be one world champion, by definition - and the world champion is always the lineal champion. Most of the time, the lineal champion is also the consensus #1, but even when that isn't the case, the lineal champion is still the world champion. When there are anomalies (which are rare), boxing fans should demand that the lineal champion and the consensus #1 fight each other. When they do demand that, the money becomes available to make the fight happen. That's what made Spinks (who was the lineal champion) finally fight Tyson (who was the consensus #1) - public demand. The same thing should have happened in the case of Jones and Michalczewski.

The lineal champion matters more than ever, precisely because of all the belts. The alphabets belts no longer mean anything, so the only title that matters now is the lineal title. Its a matter of opinion I agree it "should" matter more but beacuse of all the belts its easier for the best fighter in a division not to end up being a lineal champion.

You're a complete moron Briggs beat Foreman to become the Lineal World Heavyweight Champ Briggs KO'd Liakhovich to become the WBO Heavyweight Champ (and yes, that's a real world title you moron) Shannon Briggs: "Vitali Klitschko is the best fighter I've ever fought, he is better than Lennox Lewis and George Foreman" Lewis went life and death with Briggs. He was badly hurt several times and almost KTFO by Briggs. Vitali is nearly 40 and is well past his prime. He is OLDER than Briggs. Vitali dominated every second of every round and destroyed Briggs. The fight should have been stopped. Any other ref or corner would've stopped the fight. Rounds 6,7,8,9,10,12 were all 10-8 rounds. It was a massacre. PRIME Vitali would've KO'd Briggs. Look at the Vitali-Briggs weigh in pic I posted Briggs was on steroids for the Vitali fight, his head was twice the size it was when he fought Lennox...thus improving his chin/durability. Well Vitali used steroids kinda stupid point to make don't you think and no most don't consider the WBO a main world title. Unless Ricky Burns is the best at 130.

Lewis went life and death with Briggs. He was badly hurt several times and almost KTFO by Briggs. That's a massive exaggeration. He was a little hurt but not badly and he was never even close to being knocked down. And after the first round it was all Lewis.

You also think Vitali is the best heavyweight ever :lol1: nobody cares about your opinion cos clearly you are a retard. This is very true. He is a top twat on this site. Pointless reading or replying to his twatty posts.

The lineal champion doesn't matter as much as it used to because of all the belts. I guess Vitali was never a world champ so since he never has been lineal champion The lineal champion matters more than ever, precisely because of all the belts. The alphabets belts no longer mean anything, so the only title that matters now is the lineal title.

Hatred is over the top. It's not like he's going around killing children or anything. But disliking him and feeling let down over his lying to fans (both his own fans and boxing fans in general) is understandable. He used Wlad to get more attention for himself, then pulled out of their fight and has continually found reasons to avoid facing him while instead fighting guys who are simply not that good. Great post. I certainly don't hate him, but I have zero respect for him, and if he signs the fight now, it will only be because Sky forced him to do so, so my lack of respect for him won't be affected.

Now i'm obviuosly a fan of david Haye's, but i'm more than willing to criticise him when its deserved. What i don't get is why so many people blame David haye for the klitchko fight not happening this time round? (even though it may still happen). yeh he pulled out of a fight with the klitchko's before, but setanta was going bust so a fighter needs to get paid right? Wladimir signed a fight with derek chisora and offered haye a fight 8 weeks after knowing that he would have to fight his mandatory if a fight date wasn't reached. he made £5 million fighting a bum, who wouldnt take that? in my opinion there is no doubt Haye wants to fight the klitchko's! yes, the haye hatred is justified. haye talked a big azz game to get a fight with the klits, but he has yet to deliver. right now, he's a bittch that is all talk and no walk.

Briggs was the lineal world champion (which is the only world title that matters) when Lewis beat him. The lineal champion doesn't matter as much as it used to because of all the belts. I guess Vitali was never a world champ so since he never has been lineal champion

it has annoyed me he hasnt pushed a bit harder to make needed matches. Pushed a bit harder? Funniest post I've seen in ages. If he'd pushed with one finger the door would have swung wide open. He was offered everything he had said he wanted in May 2010 and turned it down in order to fight Fraudley. Then he was offered the same terms again in January this year and turned it down in order to fight a mandatory that the WBA had already agreed he didn't have to fight. Now Sky have forced him back into negotiations because they've lost patience with him, but if the fight gets made this time, he'll be the most reluctant challenger in heavyweight history. Never before has any challenger tried so hard to get out of a title fight.

Again wrong unless you conider the WBO belt as a worthy world title belt Briggs was never a world champ. Briggs was the lineal world champion (which is the only world title that matters) when Lewis beat him.

Now i'm obviuosly a fan of david Haye's, but i'm more than willing to criticise him when its deserved. What i don't get is why so many people blame David haye for the klitchko fight not happening this time round? (even though it may still happen). yeh he pulled out of a fight with the klitchko's before, but setanta was going bust so a fighter needs to get paid right? Wladimir signed a fight with derek chisora and offered haye a fight 8 weeks after knowing that he would have to fight his mandatory if a fight date wasn't reached. he made £5 million fighting a bum, who wouldnt take that? in my opinion there is no doubt Haye wants to fight the klitchko's! He had no reason whatsoever to pull out in January, as is proved by the fact that he's back in negotiations now (which he was forced to do because Sky finally lost patience with his ducking and pulled the plug on him).

Vitali is older than Briggs. The 2 time HW Champ Shannon Briggs was the last American heavyweight champ, he has the record for most 1st round knockouts. He is tough as nails and is one of the biggest punchers in the HW division, he is a much more dangerous opponent than old shot feather fisted Ruiz. There was also bad blood between Briggs and the Klitschkos, Briggs had been talking shit about the Klitschkos for years. That's why Vitali fought him. Again wrong unless you conider the WBO belt as a worthy world title belt Briggs was never a world champ. Lewis took out a much better version of Briggs in 5 which wouldn't make him so tough now would it. He may be tough against lower class opposition but never has beaten a top quaility fighter.

Lewis wasn't "over the hill" when he got his ass whooped by Vitali. Lewis was coming off the KO win over Tyson. In the Lewis-Tyson post fight interview Lewis stated "I'm like fine wine, I get better with age" In an interview right before the Vitali fight, Lewis said "I'm at the peak of my powers, I will keep fighting for many more years" Vitali dominated Lewis and scared him into retirement. That's a FACT. Wow how retarded are you? Tyson wasn't exactly in his prime when Lewis faced him. You can post that essay all you like if Vitali was as good as you say he is he should have been able to beat Lewis comfortably. Instead his face got mangled unless he hoped Lewis would break his hands on his face.

I think a lot of people were out to shoot him down for calling at the Klitchkos and not delivering. Personally I think he's injected some interest in the HW scene. He WILL fight Wlad this year. I am 100% sure.

Wlad destroyed the REAL WBA HW Champ undefeated Ruslan Chagaev, who clearly beat Prime Valuev in impressive fashion, unlike Haye who ran like a scared little girl from old shot crippled Valuev the whole fight and set the all time record for fewest punches thrown in a 12 round fight. Haye only threw 143 punches in 12 rounds...PATHETIC. That was a boring, unwatchable, awful, cowardly, pathetic performance by that pussy Haye. Valuev got robbed. Even the biased British commentators had Valuev winning the fight. Grandpa Holyfield did better against Valuev than Haye did. Wlad is the rightful WBA Heavyweight Champ. Haye hasn't beaten anyone with a pulse. Barrett - old shot weak chinned bum who was coming off a 2nd round KO loss to tomato can Cliff Couser Ruiz - 40 years old, shot to pieces, feather fisted, 9 losses Fraudley - another shot 40 year old, he's a pathetic glass chinned bum, he should've retired 4 years ago after he got brutally knocked out cold in 3 rounds by tomato can Sprott. Haye was NEVER "undisputed" cruiserweight champ. he partially unified by beating two weak title holders...old shot midget Mormeck, who was coming off a KO loss to O'Neil Bell...and glass chinned bum Maccarinelli, who has been KTFO by Lebedev, Frenkel, Afolabi and Swaby. Haye never even made a title defence and he ducked all of the best cruiserweights at the time (Adamek, Cunningham, etc.) So when Haye fights "old" heavyweights it doesn't count but in Vitali's biggest career fight he got cut to pieces literally by a clearly over the hill Lewis. You used the Lewis fight to claim Vitali was the best heavyweight ever you clearly are retarded. Briggs is older than Ruiz you Klitard and hadn't beaten a contender in 5 years. Harrison also KO'd Sprott in their rematch clown. Mormeck wasn't shot and Enzo hadn't been KO'd till he faced Haye. He didn't duck anybody at CW he just moved up and became HW world champ which Adamak is also trying to do I guess he is a coward ducking cruiserweights too.

Haye is the biggest coward in boxing. He deserves all the hate he gets. You also think Vitali is the best heavyweight ever :lol1: nobody cares about your opinion cos clearly you are a retard.

it has annoyed me he hasnt pushed a bit harder to make needed matches. klitschkos have hardly set the wolrd alight with thier opponent either aswell tbh. setanta thing was bad,him fighting valuev first was smart,maximised his name and won a title to bring unification and a better deal on the table for him. LOL,a gutless coward who has beaten two champions(one in thier own backyard,getting off the floor to win by KO) and made himself top in one divsion and moved up to win a wolrd title,being the 2nd cruiser ever to also win title at heavywieght!. a coward?,with a big KO record!.okkayy. this fight vs klitschkos will be made,Haye will win.

look at that scared pussy Haye. Haye is scared to death of Vitali. Vitali also manhandled Haye and choked him out in a restaurant. LOL those videos aren't anthing, being punked out in front of all the media was far more embrassing in my opinion.