Resume, career, accomplishments: Adamek vs Haye, you decide...

If Haye fought Adamek, Haye would stop him. He's bigger, faster, stronger, has good combos and good angles and is younger.

haye had 3 CW titles,has the WBA title(dont care about your conspiracy theories),has wins over audley harrison(gold medalist but average pro),Valuev(2 time world champion), ruiz(2 time world champ),monte barrett(2 time world title challenger,gatekeeper)...he also had significant CW wins vs o'neil bell & mormeck. pretty good resume by 30....adamek LHW title,CW title,had good CW wins over banks & cunningham.wins over golota(4time world title challenger), grant(1 time title challenger), maddalone, jason estrada(gatekeeper),arreola(1 time title challenger)....both have good resumes but i give haye the nod...beat better cruiserweights,he had 3 of the 4 titles,fought more accomplished guys at heavyweight...adamek has had an excellent career too

Adamek, of course. in a p4p sense at least. He was champ at LHW, #1 at Cruiserweight, and now is a top 5 guy at Heavyweight. as a heavyweight Haye is more accomplished. all you kids having fun with stats, just stop. numbers dont make you great.

David Haye is THE ONLY heavyweight world champion who has never faced a YOUNGER-THAN-SELF opponent in his whole career (cruiser+heavy). Adamek's younger-than-self opponents: 6 (+5 unknown ages) Haye younger-than-self opponents: 0 Adamek's average age opponent: 31.4yro Haye's average age opponent: 34.2yro This difference is astonishing since both started at 22 years of age. Dude, Enzo Mac is the same age as Haye, 3 months older, that's it. Haye beat a prime Enzo Mac. Besides. At 30 years old and having had only 26 fights, Haye is relatively inexperienced. Most of the top fighters in the HW division are older than him (Wlad, Vitali, Adamek, Chagaev, Povetkin, Thompson). There are no real top fighters that are the same age or younger than Haye, only a few decent contenders (Chambers, Arreola, Chisora, Solis, Peter). There's no use in Haye fighting any of those because Klit Bros have already owned Peter, Arreola and Chambers, Solis is going to fight Vitali, and Chisora is still very green and about to fight Wladimir. Haye doesn't need their left-overs.

For once you make some sense, just a bit though Yup, as soon as stats support your view you agree. But let me mention a stat where Adamek is better: Adamek has faced more southpaws (5) than Haye (2)Aside from HEIGHT/WEIGHT it's the STANCE that is the single most significant feature that makes or breaks your KOratio (just think about Roy Jones Jr, or Wlad's non-KOs/late KO against Ibragimov, Byrd, Thompson and Sanders). No wonder Tyson and Lewis never faced any noteworthy southpaw. There are only little champions that were brave enough to face many southpaws and Adamek is one of them thus this is definitely important to mention. Once you delete southpaw cruisers off the record of Adamek his cruiser KOratio is 70%, which is pretty high.And another stat: As I pointed out at http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9922740#post9922740 David Haye is THE ONLY heavyweight world champion who has never faced a YOUNGER-THAN-SELF opponent in his whole career (cruiser+heavy). Adamek's younger-than-self opponents: 6 (+5 unknown ages) Haye younger-than-self opponents: 0 Adamek's average age opponent: 31.4yro Haye's average age opponent: 34.2yro This difference is astonishing since both started at 22 years of age.

I agree with £-4-£'s post. Let me also add that Haye has one of the best KOratios amongst all champions and in Ali's times ALL of Haye's fights would have counted as "heavyweight" thus Haye would be approximately on par with George Foreman. Haye would be a proof of the greatness of the Golden Age of heavyweight boxing. Let me also add that Adamek's cruiser opponents have started their careers lower than Haye's. Adamek's opponents started at 165 lbs on the avergae while Haye's started at 176 lbs. Thus Haye has not only a higher KOratio but also against genuine cruiserweights. No, that's not the reason. I analyzed hundreds of records and a drop in KOratio is TYPICAL for natural cruisers who move up to heavyweight. Whereas natural heavies keep their KOratio pretty even. name |sub200|200+ |215+ opponents ------------------+------+-----+-------------- Wladimir Klitschko|- |87.5%|87.5% (42of48) Lennox Lewis |- |75.6%|75.0% (27of36) David Haye |87.5% |90.0%|85.7% (6of7) Muhammad Ali |79.1% |40.5%|33.3% (5of15) Mike Tyson |100.0%|78.0%|73.6% (28of38) Michael Moorer |100.0%|51.4%|46.1% (12of26) Joe Frazier |100.0%|50.0%|45.4% (5of11) Evander Holyfield |77.7% |40.0%|34.4% (10of29) Larry Holmes |50.0% |58.2%|45.9% (17of37) Tomasz Adamek |63.8% |62.5%|40.0% (2of5) Earnie Shavers |90.9% |68.4%|47.8% (11of23) As you see most guys lose their KOchances against heavier opponents, but it's clear that genuine cruisers like Evan Fields, Ali and Michael Moorer lose the most while genuine heavyweights like Wladimir Klitschko or Lennox Lewis lose the least from 200 to 215. So you have cruiser powerpunchers like Holyfield or Frazier (whom you cannot attest lack of killer instinct) but who utterly failed as soon as the opponents got heavier. I agree. For once you make some sense, just a bit though

id like to see adamek merc haye. oddly though i think haye has a better chance against the klits than adamek does but i really would favor adamek over haye in a fight.

- Haye and Adamek are both two-division champions. - Haye has a record of 5-0 (4 KOs) in world title fights. 80% KO ratio. I agree with £-4-£'s post. Let me also add that Haye has one of the best KOratios amongst all champions and in Ali's times ALL of Haye's fights would have counted as "heavyweight" thus Haye would be approximately on par with George Foreman. Haye would be a proof of the greatness of the Golden Age of heavyweight boxing. - Adamek has a record of 6-1 (3 KOs) in world title fights. 43% KO ratio. Let me also add that Adamek's sub-heavy opponents have started their careers lower than Haye's. Adamek's opponents started at 165 lbs on the average while Haye's started at 176 lbs. Thus Haye has not only a higher KOratio but also against genuine cruiserweights. - Given that Adamek has a low KO ratio in title fights (40%) and has only won close decisions in title fights, it could be suggested that Adamek lacks killer instinct. No, that's not the reason. I analyzed hundreds of records and a drop in KOratio is TYPICAL for natural cruisers who move up to heavyweight. Whereas natural heavies keep their KOratio pretty even. name |sub200|200+ |215+ opponents ------------------+------+-----+-------------- Wladimir Klitschko|- |87.5%|87.5% (42of48) Lennox Lewis |- |75.6%|75.0% (27of36) David Haye |87.5% |90.0%|85.7% (6of7) Muhammad Ali |79.1% |40.5%|33.3% (5of15) Mike Tyson |100.0%|78.0%|73.6% (28of38) Michael Moorer |100.0%|51.4%|46.1% (12of26) Joe Frazier |100.0%|50.0%|45.4% (5of11) Evander Holyfield |77.7% |40.0%|34.4% (10of29) Larry Holmes |50.0% |58.2%|45.9% (17of37) Tomasz Adamek |63.8% |62.5%|40.0% (2of5) Earnie Shavers |90.9% |68.4%|47.8% (11of23) (I excluded WDQs and TDs). As you see most guys lose their KOchances against heavier opponents, but it's clear that genuine cruisers like Evan Fields, Ali and Michael Moorer lose the most while genuine heavyweights like Wladimir Klitschko or Lennox Lewis lose the least from 200 to 215. So you have cruiser powerpunchers like Holyfield or Frazier (whom you cannot attest lack of killer instinct) but who utterly failed as soon as the opponents got heavier. The winner in my opinion is David Haye. Haye has accomplished more in his career I agree.

The key difference is Adamek has the balls to fight anyone and does it regularly while Haye ducks and sits down to pee! Props to Adamek for taking the Wlad shot. He's a real warrior this guy, the white Holyfield. I mean fight Sam Peter before Wlad, that takes BALLS. Who has Haye ducked seriously? He pulled out of a fight with Wlad due to injury. Wlad ducked him last week too.

I'm no Haye fan, but you have to say Haye. Adameks LHW reign can be discounted, he basically had a short reign at C/W after Haye vacated (a good reign but short) and at H/W other than Areolla (who is overrated) he hasn't really done anything. I honestly belive Valuev is a better win than Areolla. Yea good point. Haye's body of work at HW is definitely better. He has wins over Valuez, past-prime Ruiz and the European champion Harrison. Earlier victories over Barrett and Bonin too.

The key difference is Adamek has the balls to fight anyone and does it regularly while Haye ducks and sits down to pee! Props to Adamek for taking the Wlad shot. He's a real warrior this guy, the white Holyfield. I mean fight Sam Peter before Wlad, that takes BALLS.

I'm no Haye fan, but you have to say Haye. Adameks LHW reign can be discounted, he basically had a short reign at C/W after Haye vacated (a good reign but short) and at H/W other than Areolla (who is overrated) he hasn't really done anything. I honestly belive Valuev is a better win than Areolla.

This is a much better comparison than the TS. The only thing I don't like is the mentioning of KO ration. That doesn't matter at all. Who has the better resume/accomplishments? In a P4P sense I would give the edge to Adamek. At HW who has the better resume/accomplishment? I think they're quite even. Who is more deserving to fight Wlad? I would rather have them fight and the winner could fight Wlad. But, that is not happening. Personally, I think Haye's wins over Mormeck, Maccarinelli, Valuev and Fragomeni give him the edge over Adamek. Just slightly in terms of better opposition faced. Accomplishments, I have to give it to Haye. Adamek has yet to win a title at HW and his best win at HW is an MD win over Arreola (he's ranked 10 by The Ring but I feel as though that's a bit high). The deciding factor in my eyes though is the fact that Haye beat the defending lineal champ at CW (Mormeck). Adamek only became lineal champion when the number 1 and number 2 fighters faced off to create a new lineage (himself and Cunningham). Haye's win over Mormeck > Adamek's win over Cunningham. In my opinion.

Ok, good defense of Gayevid's CW resume. But you can't really say Fragiomenni was any good. Fragomeni is a solid win Haye is probably top 20 CW, considering intangibles, but if you take strict numbers and records, he isn't top 20. No top 20 has one defense and two title fights. Is that your logic? Only asking cuz' you have Toney in the top 10 and he has zero defenses and only 1 title fight. Seems like a flawed logic to me.

Adamek's LHW career: - He won a vacant alphabet title at LHW against Paul Briggs by MD. Adamek did not beat anybody of note at LHW - only Briggs twice (a nobody) and Ulrich (European champ), both were not big names. He lost his first fight against top-level competition (a wide-UD to Chad Dawson). Cruiserweight careers: Adamek: - At Cruiserweight Adamek had only 2 wins of note; the first against a past-prime O'Neil Bell, and the second was the best win of his career - against Steve Cunningham, which was a very good win it must be said. After two routine defenses he moved up to HW. - At Cruiserweight Adamek had 7 fights, 5 of which were won by stoppage. His KO ratio at CW was therefore 71%. Haye: - Only loss came in his 11th pro fight in his first big fight (IBO Cruiserweight title) against a former world titlist Carl Thompson, who was past-prime, this however can be forgiven as Haye was very green. - His first big win came in his 19th fight against Giacobbe Fragomeni. Haye was the first man to beat Fragomeni, who himself later went on to win a world title. - Haye later defeated Mormeck on his home turf by TKO to win the WBC and WBA Cruiserweight titles, as well as the lineal title. - He then unified against a prime Enzo Maccarinelli (28-1) who had several successful defenses of his WBO title. - Haye therefore became lineal and undisputed Cruiserweight champion. - Haye had 19 fights at the Cruiserweight limit with 18 wins, 17 of which were via stoppage. His KO ratio was therefore 89.5%. Heavyweight careers: Adamek: - He has fought several C-class fighters at HW. - His best win was an majority decision over Arreola, who is a B-class fighter that is over-weight and easy-to-beat. - It should also be noted that Adamek has 2 stoppages at HW out of 5 fights, a 40% KO ratio. Haye: - After a win over journeyman Monte Barrett he fought for the WBA Heavyweight title, winning an MD over Nikolai Valuev in Germany. - He has since defended it twice. Once against a mandatory, former champion John Ruiz (past-prime) and next against European champion Audley Harrison. - At Heavyweight, Haye has had 7 fights (including 2 early in his career). He has won all 7 with 6 by stoppage, that is a KO ratio of 86%. Other facts and observations: - Haye and Adamek are both two-division champions. - Haye has a record of 5-0 (4 KOs) in world title fights. 80% KO ratio. - Adamek has a record of 6-1 (3 KOs) in world title fights. 43% KO ratio. - Neither Haye or Adamek have ever won a UD in a world title fight; Adamek has won two MDs and a SD, where as Haye has won 1 MD. - Given that Adamek has a low KO ratio in title fights (40%) and has only won close decisions in title fights, it could be suggested that Adamek lacks killer instinct. - Haye has never been outboxed over 12 rounds. His only loss was a KO early in his career. Adamek however has lost a wide-UD at LHW to Dawson. - Adamek has a career KO ratio of 64%. Where as Haye's ratio is 88%. - Haye has beaten 5 world titlists (Fragomeni, Mormeck, Maccarinelli, Valuev, Ruiz). - Adamek has beaten 2 world titlists (Bell, Cunningham). - Haye has lost to 1 world titlist (Thompson), so too has Adamek (Dawson). - Adamek has never unified a division, where as Haye unified the Cruiserweight division by defeating Maccarinelli. - Haye became lineal champion at CW by de-throwning the current champion (Mormeck). Adamek won the vacant lineal title. Summary: Haye: - Two division champion. - Former undisputed, and lineal, Cruiserweight champion. - Current WBA Heavyweight champion. - Defeated 5 world titlists. - 5-0 (4) in title fights. - KO ratio of 89.5% at Cruiserweight, 86% at Heavyweight, and 88% overall. - Rated at number 2 by The Ring at HW, weeks on list: 94. Adamek - Two-division champion (LHW and CW) - Former lineal CW champ - Has defeated 2 world titlists. - 6-1-0 (3) in title fights. - KO ratio of 71% at CW, 40% at Heavyweight, and 64% overall. - Rated at number 4 by The Ring at HW, weeks on list: 37. ______________________________ The winner in my opinion is David Haye. Haye has accomplished more in his career and in a shorter space of time too. Haye is also bigger, faster, stronger and more athletic than Adamek; if they were to ever fight I therefore believe that Haye would win by stoppage. I do like Adamek though, he is a good boxer. /THREAD This is a much better comparison than the TS. The only thing I don't like is the mentioning of KO ration. That doesn't matter at all. Who has the better resume/accomplishments? In a P4P sense I would give the edge to Adamek. At HW who has the better resume/accomplishment? I think they're quite even. Who is more deserving to fight Wlad? I would rather have them fight and the winner could fight Wlad. But, that is not happening.

Haye is probably top 20 CW, considering intangibles, but if you take strict numbers and records, he isn't top 20. No top 20 has one defense and two title fights. Considering the age of the CW division and the lack of Hall of Famers that have had careers in it, Haye definitely ranks somewhere in it's top-10. My Cruiserweight all-time rankings: 1) Evander Holyfield. 2) Carlos De Leon. 3) Johnny Nelson. Haye is definitely somewhere in the top-10, along with Mormeck and Bell.

Haye takes this one!

Ok, good defense of Gayevid's CW resume. But you can't really say Fragiomenni was any good. Dude, Fragomeni went on to become a world titlist. It's a very solid win, especially considering that Haye took his '0'. It's like not giving Marcos Maidana credit for beating Victor Ortiz. Ortiz wasn't a world-titlist then but he could well go on to become one. Fragomeni went on to become a top-10 ranked CW and WBC world champion. He also fought Krzysztof Wlodarczyk (current WBC champ and two-time CW champion) to a draw in his first defense. Haye's best wins: 1) Mormeck (Coming off the back of a win over O'Neil Bell. Was the lineal CW champ) 2) Maccarinelli (Prime. WBO Cruiserweight champ with several defenses. Haye took his soul, and his chin). 3) Valuev (Not the best boxer ever, but his sheer size makes him hard to fight, let alone beat). 4) Fragomeni (Inflicted his first defeat) Adamek's best wins: 1) Cunningham (a very good win) 2) O'Neil Bell (past-prime) 3) Arreola Haye has more wins over prime game opponents than Adamek (Mormeck, Fragomeni, Maccarinelli, Valuev), compared to (Cunningham and Arreola). Even though the Harrison fight was a joke, Harrison was still a decent opponent (he was European champion). And Adamek fans can't ridicule Haye because Adamek defended his Light-Heavyweight title against the European champion Ulrich. So Haye gets just as much credit and criticism for fighting Harrison, as Adamek should for fighting Ulrich.

Adamek's LHW career: - He won a vacant alphabet title at LHW against Paul Briggs by MD. Adamek did not beat anybody of note at LHW - only Briggs twice (a nobody) and Ulrich (European champ), both were not big names. He lost his first fight against top-level competition (a wide-UD to Chad Dawson). Cruiserweight careers: Adamek: - At Cruiserweight Adamek had only 2 wins of note; the first against a past-prime O'Neil Bell, and the second was the best win of his career - against Steve Cunningham, which was a very good win it must be said. After two routine defenses he moved up to HW. - At Cruiserweight Adamek had 7 fights, 5 of which were won by stoppage. His KO ratio at CW was therefore 71%. Haye: - Only loss came in his 11th pro fight in his first big fight (IBO Cruiserweight title) against a former world titlist Carl Thompson, who was past-prime, this however can be forgiven as Haye was very green. - His first big win came in his 19th fight against Giacobbe Fragomeni. Haye was the first man to beat Fragomeni, who himself later went on to win a world title. - Haye later defeated Mormeck on his home turf by TKO to win the WBC and WBA Cruiserweight titles, as well as the lineal title. - He then unified against a prime Enzo Maccarinelli (28-1) who had several successful defenses of his WBO title. - Haye therefore became lineal and undisputed Cruiserweight champion. - Haye had 19 fights at the Cruiserweight limit with 18 wins, 17 of which were via stoppage. His KO ratio was therefore 89.5%. Heavyweight careers: Adamek: - He has fought several C-class fighters at HW. - His best win was an majority decision over Arreola, who is a B-class fighter that is over-weight and easy-to-beat. - It should also be noted that Adamek has 2 stoppages at HW out of 5 fights, a 40% KO ratio. Haye: - After a win over journeyman Monte Barrett he fought for the WBA Heavyweight title, winning an MD over Nikolai Valuev in Germany. - He has since defended it twice. Once against a mandatory, former champion John Ruiz (past-prime) and next against European champion Audley Harrison. - At Heavyweight, Haye has had 7 fights (including 2 early in his career). He has won all 7 with 6 by stoppage, that is a KO ratio of 86%. Other facts and observations: - Haye and Adamek are both two-division champions. - Haye has a record of 5-0 (4 KOs) in world title fights. 80% KO ratio. - Adamek has a record of 6-1 (3 KOs) in world title fights. 43% KO ratio. - Neither Haye or Adamek have ever won a UD in a world title fight; Adamek has won two MDs and a SD, where as Haye has won 1 MD. - Given that Adamek has a low KO ratio in title fights (40%) and has only won close decisions in title fights, it could be suggested that Adamek lacks killer instinct. - Haye has never been outboxed over 12 rounds. His only loss was a KO early in his career. Adamek however has lost a wide-UD at LHW to Dawson. - Adamek has a career KO ratio of 64%. Where as Haye's ratio is 88%. - Haye has beaten 5 world titlists (Fragomeni, Mormeck, Maccarinelli, Valuev, Ruiz). - Adamek has beaten 2 world titlists (Bell, Cunningham). - Haye has lost to 1 world titlist (Thompson), so too has Adamek (Dawson). - Adamek has never unified a division, where as Haye unified the Cruiserweight division by defeating Maccarinelli. - Haye became lineal champion at CW by de-throwning the current champion (Mormeck). Adamek won the vacant lineal title. Summary: Haye: - Two division champion. - Former undisputed, and lineal, Cruiserweight champion. - Current WBA Heavyweight champion. - Defeated 5 world titlists. - 5-0 (4) in title fights. - KO ratio of 89.5% at Cruiserweight, 86% at Heavyweight, and 88% overall. - Rated at number 2 by The Ring at HW, weeks on list: 94. Adamek - Two-division champion (LHW and CW) - Former lineal CW champ - Has defeated 2 world titlists. - 6-1-0 (3) in title fights. - KO ratio of 71% at CW, 40% at Heavyweight, and 64% overall. - Rated at number 4 by The Ring at HW, weeks on list: 37. ______________________________ The winner in my opinion is David Haye. Haye has accomplished more in his career and in a shorter space of time too. Haye is also bigger, faster, stronger and more athletic than Adamek; if they were to ever fight I therefore believe that Haye would win by stoppage. I do like Adamek though, he is a good boxer. /THREAD Ok, good defense of Gayevid's CW resume. But you can't really say Fragiomenni was any good. Haye is probably top 20 CW, considering intangibles, but if you take strict numbers and records, he isn't top 20. No top 20 has one defense and two title fights.

on the poll, is Goral Adamek. And is Gayevid David Haye? Yes, Goral is Adamek's Polish nickname. Gayevid is self-explanatory.