Do you guys REALLY believe Pac cant...

Kirby;9789009']I lol'd. You honestly think Pacquiao can beat De La Hoya or Mosley in their primes? hahahhaha. i think he'd beat them....

i thought this would turn out to be another pactard v flomo thread. the insights from Rabbit, jro and imdazed are a pleasant surprise. imo pac beats shane, 50/50 against oscar. he'll get murked by tito in the middle rounds

Pac can beat prime shane but not the prime ODLH.

pac is a good fighter and he would beat quite a few guys out there but so far he hasn't really beat anyone good even his coach freddie roach said so (shot,can't pull the trigger anymore,past his prime)..Hatton was done after the floyd fight or maybe even before,de la hoya was under weight he was weak,cotto had no game plan and he too came in at a catch weight,margarito was in at catch weight too but that doesn't matter because he can't box anyway and he came from a big loss too..I use to enjoy pac back in the days when he was at his natural weight,he had trouble beating people but at least it was a fair fight he gave a beating and he received a beating but now days I don't take his fights serious anymore especially his last 4 or 5 fights were a joke and the next one is gonna be the biggest joke so far. Jmm was a fighter who came in at a good weight and who was a good couter puncher and we've seen what happened..that's something his last 5 opponents didn't and couldn't do.A good boxer like floyd would have no problem with pacquiao..the ball is in his court if he does the OST floyd would school him and every praise he got so far would be forgotten and I don't think he wants that that's why there won't be a OST.

Zab Judah too has very fast hands.

Speed kills... that is what all boxing aficionados believe, and I have no reason to contest that.. I have done many fight reviews with the help of modern technology that solidified that belief. Even an experienced boxing expert with the sharpest eye in the world can't possibly see everything that is happening inside the ring. Nothing however, can be hidden from broadcast quality videocams. They record everything and the result can be replayed and slowed frame by frame. Punches can also be timed for speed. My review of many bouts including that of Pacquaio's made me conclude that he could beat the top current and previous boxers in their primes. Mayweather can too. However, you people might not believe this but the fastest punches belong to Nonito Donaire.:boxing:

You make a good point there. You know what really pisses me off? With all the FMJ vs. Pac bulls*it aside, i honestly think that we could be missing something that could be undeniably special here, because of Arum and his match making. Yes, I know its something very good already, but we will never know how great Pac really could've been, because of them fighting fighters either off a big loss w/their confidence not the same, drained(even 1 lbs) catchweights, or fighting for paper titles. I loved Pac b4, when he was moving up. But the Diaz(a joke from the start), Cotto(When i heard about this, the first thing I said was MISMATCH for Pac), Clottey(Same here) Margartito(Same here) fights really turned me off. Can u imagine if he had gone against names like Valero, Morales at a higher weight, Shane Mosley after Margartio and Mayweather and won all of them. No one could say ANYTHING about all the nuthugging that is given to him now. But, with the selective matchmaking, they are leaving things to doubt, and that is truely ashamed, cuz Pac has shown that he would be at least 50-50 in most all of those fights. It is a shame we are being robbed of this great, great matchup. And I mean great.

Prime Shane and maybe 90s Oscar beat Pacquiao at 147. Pac is one of the best of his era, but Arum is putting him on a retirement tour, having him fight all these shot, famous fighters. Cotto and Hatton have been hsi only worthy matches since the second Marquez fight. It happen with a lot of guys when they get to that level of fame, but its a shame to see his skills wasted.

Oscar really struggled with boxers, jabs, movement...you name it. He struggled badly against Oba Carr as well. If he landed his hook Manny would be in deep sh*t, sure but...how many elite fighters did he KO with his hook at 147? He may have hurt them but KO'ed? I think Manny peppers Oscar on the outside all night. You make a good point there. You know what really pisses me off? With all the FMJ vs. Pac bulls*it aside, i honestly think that we could be missing something that could be undeniably special here, because of Arum and his match making. Yes, I know its something very good already, but we will never know how great Pac really could've been, because of him being matched with fighters coming off a big loss w/their confidence not the same, drained(even 1 lbs) catchweights, or fighting for paper titles. Fights, he would've won without the advantages, in my opinion. I loved Pac b4, when he was moving up. But the Diaz(a joke from the start), Cotto(when i heard about this, the first thing I said was MISMATCH for Pac), Clottey(Same here tailor made) Margartito(Same here) fights really turned me off. Can u imagine if he had gone against names like Valero, Morales at a higher weight, Shane Mosley and Mayweather and won all of them. No one could say ANYTHING about all the nut hugging that is given to him now. But, with the selective matchmaking, they are leaving things to doubt, and that is truly ashamed, cuz Pac has shown that he would be at least 50-50 in most all of those fights.

True. He was left hook happy, but that hook did him a lot of good. He kept winning against some really good fighters(even though he really lost to Ike Qurartey). You don't see the ODLH that fought Ike or Shane beating Oscar? Seriously? Oscar really struggled with boxers, jabs, movement...you name it. He struggled badly against Oba Carr as well. If he landed his hook Manny would be in deep sh*t, sure but...how many elite fighters did he KO with his hook at 147? He may have hurt them but KO'ed? I think Manny peppers Oscar on the outside all night.

Oscar was extremely one-handed in his prime. And his defense was mehh. True. He was left hook happy, but that hook did him a lot of good. He kept winning against some really good fighters(even though he really lost to Ike Qurartey). You don't see the ODLH that fought Ike or Shane beating Oscar? Seriously? Almost all of Manny's Dfence is his offense.

I see Tito getting dropped as well but I also think that would have been the worse that would of happen to Pac. He would get up and be a killer. And, Tito was a dynamic puncher with both hands not just the left. I think Tito stops and I say that without hesitation Pac does get hit. This! ^^^^^ Tito was an absolute beast, especially when after he got knocked down. I remember watching him and not really liking him at first. Then, watched him more and more, i began to love him. It was a kind of a treat to watch him get knocked down and realize it was a flash, cuz u knew what was coming soon after that!

I think both of them span Pac. Oscar was a very good technical boxer in his prime. His jab along would've given Pac fits. Shane was too fast and too strong. Pac body would take a bad beating with Shane. Oscar was extremely one-handed in his prime. And his defense was mehh.

When have you seen him fight a prime fast/just as fast boxer? I'll wait...... Seems like the fans are comming around to seeing this for what it is homie... Bootleg matchups I understand what you're saying. But the question isn't about speed, what im trying to say is which prime fighter right now beats him? I know you hate pac but don't let that get in the way of answering a question, if he's such a fraud who bests him?

Pacquiao could take Oscar in his prime. Maybe Shane too. I think both of them span Pac. Oscar was a very good technical boxer in his prime. His jab along would've given Pac fits. Shane was too fast and too strong. Pac body would take a bad beating with Shane.

Maybe. Would be interesting to see who is faster. I'd make Shane the favorite but I wouldn't be surprised if Manny out-quicked him. I don't think there is ANY questions who is faster. Prime Shay in my opinion is easily faster than Pac, and the lighter the weight, the bigger the gap becomes. Shane VERY fast at lightweight. In fact, if u watch ODH vs. Mosley I, I think a great argument could be made for Oscar being just as fast as Pac.

True and not only is Pac hittable, I kinda have the feeling he'd let Tito tee off on him in the 4th or 5th.. And I don't think he'd do his normal throw his hands up afterwards if that happened :lol1: :lol1: :lol1:

Yeah man. I wish Tito vs Shane would have happened. Not that Pac fights like Shane, but just to see how Tito would have handled that kind of handspeed and because Shane's d is also lacking. Might have given me better insight. That and Bhop vs RJJ are the two fights I'm still pissed never happened :lol1: I think I definitely wanted to see B-Hop/RJ than Tito-Shane. Shane was only a few fights removed from 135 and I thought 154 might've been too much for him. Plus, you're right about his D. I think the ref would've saved him in that bout. Tito at 154 was an animal. I thought Hopkins would've given Jones a lot of trouble but I can't ever see him beating a pre-33yr old Roy. Jones had a mental hold over him which I thought was apparent when the old men fought this past Spring. The only difference is that this Jones has no confidence while the prime version was brimming with it.

im sure he can beat some fighters in their primes. as of late, he hasn't done that, and it's irritating how he or his handlers like to drain his recent opponents. I know, that catchweight BS is ridiculous.. im not the biggest pac fan but I can admit when someone is good.. And yeah if you don't weigh the division, you don't get the title. Ok, who, right now is beating pac? Floyd can and brrto can give him problems but who else

I think Pacquiao could beat a lot of the fighters he's beaten in their prime. However that's not to say he would have beat all of them. Of the top fighters I would say this: I think a Prime Erik Morales at 122-126 would have stopped Pacquiao. Still a good fight don't get me wrong just because of how strong Pacquiao is, but lets face it Erik Morales proved in their first fight and part of the second fight before he gassed out that he pretty much could neutralize pac in a way not even Marquez could. Juan Manuel Marquez in his prime was also too much for Pac. Bad socks excuses aside Marquez pretty much boxed rings around Pac in the first fight and had it not been because he was considerably older and slower in the second he would have done the same. I think Pacquiao however would still destroy Marco Antonio Barrera. Barrera's style was made for Pac. Marco was used to having the fastest hands pretty much against everybody, but when pacquiao changed things around he couldn't cope with it and even wanted out. Oscar De La Hoya would have still quit against Pacquiao. DLH doesn't get much credit but he still had a ton of things at his disposal. He is a big guy, his hands are much faster than they give him credit for. And of course he packs a punch. However, Oscar is a guy that doesn't like to get hit and when things get a little rough he is a guy that feels he doesn't need to go through the struggle. He lacks heart and determination. Otherwise he would have beat floyd mayweather like a drum as he stood there frozen in front of him like a deer in headlights. Miguel Cotto still gets beat up. Miguel strikes me as a fighter who has always been very well rounded out but he might be in the wrong weight class. When he was at 140 his punches were devastating but he was less conditioned so he couldn't take the punches. I know a lot of other Cotto fans (I like Cotto) think Marg wrecked him and that's why pac had a relatively easy time. However I do not think that's the case. Mentally Cotto was ready to come back and had relative successes early on. And he took his beating like a man. He just wasn't ready for Pacquiao and he never was.